Bigger Pump Needed

[greenstarfish03]

I have a 100G sump in the basement and a 120G cube on the main level, and I'm not getting enough flow w/ my current pump b/c my design changed half way through and I have allot more head loss then I intended. I started out thinking my sump would be on a 4 foot tall stand in the basement instead of the basement floor like it is now. I ended up w/ about 15-16 foot vertical and maybe a foot or so horizontal. I'm currently using a Mag24 which pushes the water up fine, but I'm really not getting nearly the flow and circulation that I need. My return line is 1.5" pvc w/ two 90s and one y that splits up to the two loc lines that flow into the tank.

I'm looking for a used pump if possible and I need something that will have plenty of power. I guess I will probably try to go external this time.

[Gyyro]

the reeflow goby gold will push 1800 gph at that head but it's around $450

[XSiVE]

how much flow are you getting? how much do you need? in my 120 display Im only asking my return pump to push in about 400gph into the tank, it doesnt need much more than that. the rest of the flow is handled by the closed loop / vortechs.

[greenstarfish03]

How would I know how much flow I'm getting? I can guess that maybe around 400 gphs based on the height and what my return is rated for. I also have a K3 and two of the new style K3 equivilants in there for flow, and it still isn't enough. I have to many dead spots around the bottom of the tank no matter how I configure the pumps. I get to much grap that bilds up on my sand and corals in the areas w/o enough flow. I thought the three K3s would have done it but not the case.

[XSiVE]

You're right, its hard to estimate how much flow you're getting through your return, it isn't however, difficult to calculate... if you have a given measurement of volume (say, a gallon jug) you can direct the outlet of your return flow into that measurement device and time how long it took to fill, then take that number do some quick calculations to find how many gallons per hour you're getting (if you have a split return make sure to multiply it by two).

I would seriously caution using a higher flow return pump for more flow unless you're getting less than 4x through the display per hour, which you may be, not positive though.

Powerheads in the tank are going to be a much bigger bang for your buck than increasing flow through your sump (and they wont give ou micro-bubble issues).

Three K3's plus approx 400-500gph is not enough flow in a 120 to keep things from settling... I had a 1200gph closed loop, two k4's and 900gph return into my display (before I got my vortechs) and I still had dead spots.. not so much now with the total max flow around 8000gph, but i think i've gone mad ;)

[greenstarfish03]

Ok I see your point. When I get home on Friday I will check my flow, but if I had to guess I would say I turn my whole tank over at least 4 times an hour. So your saying my issue is the powerheads not my return? The tank is a 120g cube and I don't want powerheads all over if I can help it and I'm certainly not tearing the wholething down. Any suggestions that wouldn't involve purchasing a $400 vortec or too:) Would it be possible to add a closed loop in some way? I happen to have two mag9.5s that I'm not using? I want something that can stir the water at the bottom of the tank w/out messing up the appearance of the tank and I can't drop the coin for a Vortec. Any suggestions would help. I think my flow right now is my major issue everything else is rocking along.

[greenstarfish03]

Thanks for the link Chris. I have heard some people have problems w/ this type of setup. As anyone heard of any drawbacks of this setup?

I would have to get the long verticle pipe in my overflow b/c I definitly don't want all of that junk in my display like in the picture.

Can you buy black pvc anywhere?

[XSiVE]

Thanks for the link Chris. I have heard some people have problems w/ this type of setup. As anyone heard of any drawbacks of this setup?

I would have to get the long verticle pipe in my overflow b/c I definitly don't want all of that junk in my display like in the picture.

Can you buy black pvc anywhere?

the drawback is that you have to make sure you can prime the pump by getting water into the intake pipe.

You do NOT want the intake in your overflow area, as it then has a chance of running dry, the intake must remain below the water level in the display.

You can get white PVC, hit it with some light sandpaper then use black krylon fusion.

[greenstarfish03]

See to me this doesn't seem like a very good option. To much junk in the display.

[XSiVE]

you against adding a 2nd mag 24 to the sump? Or taking the sump offline to raise it to gain some of the headloss back??

greenstarfish; I think you're stuck between a rock and a hard place here..

A second mag24 is going to mean another 200W-250W of constant power consumption for running pump to add only 400-500gph to the display, that doesn't seem worthwhile to me... thats going to cost another $150 a year in electrical costs plus the cost of the pump.. it doesn't add up when there are much cheaper alternatives.

I know you dont like the stuff in the display, maybe you should consider ditching the three K3's (which total about 2700gph) and upgrade to the more powerful magnum koralia's, you could probably do two or three of the high-power ones.. two #6's would give you 4400gph with less in-tank footprint than the three #3's

[lionhead]

Get a sequence reef flow barracuda. This pump would fix all your problems. Check out my build thread. This pump is threaded to fit 1.5" pvc. I have about 14' of headloss and can make my 90gal have more flow than it needs. Just my suggestion.

[greenstarfish03]

Well I'm against cutting another whole in the floor to run a seperate pipe for the second mag24:) That was a pain and it does sound like there are better alternatives just no clear cut winner. I have thought several times about moving the sump off of the floor and I think I should have sat it up on bricks or something in the first place. That may end up being part of my solution in the long run, but the sump is so high if I even move it up 5 feet I would ahve to stand on a ladder to get in it. Realisticaly I could move it up a couple feet which would help some but like I said probably not solve the problem.

[greenstarfish03]

greenstarfish; I think you're stuck between a rock and a hard place here..

A second mag24 is going to mean another 200W-250W of constant power consumption for running pump to add only 400-500gph to the display, that doesn't seem worthwhile to me... thats going to cost another $150 a year in electrical costs plus the cost of the pump.. it doesn't add up when there are much cheaper alternatives.

I know you dont like the stuff in the display, maybe you should consider ditching the three K3's (which total about 2700gph) and upgrade to the more powerful magnum koralia's, you could probably do two or three of the high-power ones.. two #6's would give you 4400gph with less in-tank footprint than the three #3's

I agree w/ this Xsive. The closed loop would be easy and cheep since I have the extra 9.5s sitting around and would probably provide plenty of flow. I need to think about that a little and see if I think I can hide the lines in the tank. If I painted the intake black and put it in the back corner up against the black overflow it may hide it pretty well. Then I could place the returns near the top where there not very visiable maybe. I may ahve to play w/ some pieces up pipe to see how that looks.

I just bought two of the new K3s. I should ahve bought at least k4s apparently. I could maybe start w/ one new bigger pump for the bottom side near the wall b/c I could hise that pretty well. Then go from there. What pumps would you reconmend to get me the most flow for my $$ The other issue I have if I move the pump to near the bottom it blows the sand all over:) The problem w/ the K3 is when they are lower in the tank they loose so much power. If there at the top they do a pretty good job, but I need flow in the bottom.

[greenstarfish03]

Get a sequence reef flow barracuda. This pump would fix all your problems. Check out my build thread. This pump is threaded to fit 1.5" pvc. I have about 14' of headloss and can make my 90gal have more flow than it needs. Just my suggestion.

Lionhead- I looked at one of those and that is an option. I almost thought w/ my head loss I made need the slightly bigger pump. Hammerhead I think! At any rate I'm tired of buying pumps so whatever I buy this time I want to be right:)