A2 Swap - My review and suggestions

[jenghes]

I wanted to start off to say THANK YOU to the A2 Reef Club and CR for putting on a good swap! Both my daughter and I had a lot of fun! It was obvious that you put a good amount of time promoting the swap since you had a fantastic turnout. It was the best Michigan swap that I have been to. I’d give the swap an overall “B”. Mainly because I think that it needs to be more friendly to the swapper. This swap was more catered to the vendors.

I’ll admit that I am quite spoiled by the All-Ohio swaps. They do a phenomenal job with theirs. Yours was the closest that I have been to in Michigan to compare. I do have some recommendations to make the swap more tradeable for the little guy. I had two corals that I wanted to either trade or sell, but could not find the opportunity to show them or find someone that may want them. I was pretty disappointed in it.

Pre-Sales: Use Fragswapper only! The thread method is hard to follow and page through to see what is available and what is not. You can see instantly what is available and can sort out the items that are not. Fragswapper is so easy to make a request, sort by what is available, and you can also generate your trade lists by a couple of clicks then print it. I saw that you had the swap on Fragswapper, just eliminate the “What are you bringing?” threads.

Facility Size: It was too small for the crowd you drew – This is a GOOD thing! Go bigger and better next year! We could hardly move or socialize without feeling in the way of others. It was also very hard to get to some of the vendor tables. I did not see every table because I could not get to them.

Name Tags: Put them right at the entrance and have everyone wear them. It was so hard to find the people that we made pre-sales with because we did not know who they were. We had a few corals that were promised to someone, but never ended up finding them, so they came home with us.

Vendor tables: They were so close together and there were no spaces for them to get in or out of their booths. Spread out a bit.

Empty tables: Have some space for the little guy to take a break and set out a few of his unsold corals that he would like to trade – first come first serve on these. They shouldn’t have power or anything available. Just some tables and a few chairs. Honestly, I usually stay the entire duration of a swap but did not due to there being no place to break away for a short time.

Raffle: You had a lot of nice stuff at the raffle, but there was also a lot of items that I had no interest in. Honestly, I did not purchase any tickets because I did not like the format. At the All Ohio swaps, they set up a larger raffle area and have a cup for every item. The swappers can enter for the items that they want. Normally, I buy about $20 - $40 in tickets to win the stuff that I want. I couldn’t see dropping the cash on it to end up with a brown zoa or some other dry good that I didn’t want or need. I decided to spend that money with the vendors instead.

Overall, nice job and I look forward to next year!

Jen

[jimsflies]

Thanks for the suggestions. I agree the place was on the small side. Which of course is why we didn't have a lot of places for swappers to display their items or sit down for a hang out. We're still looking for the ideal place to hold these events.

It seems most space readily available is about the size of that hall. Often after a place is located in the area we want it, once we mention water and electricity we get told "no way". Then if we get past all of that cost comes into play.

I'll be honest a forum owner I have mixed feelings regarding fragswapper. I appreciate the tool it offers, but also am hesitant to send all the traffic over to another site. Frag swaps and the what are you bringing threads generate a lot of traffic for the forum. I'll put more thought into how to deal with this....perhaps developing our own fragswapper tool or some sort of mutually beneficial arrangement with the owner of fragswapper.

[jenghes]

I love fragswapper. And - to me, it is not a forum replacement since it is completely different. It only enhances the swap.

[weimers75]

I don't think fragswapper generates traffic for another site - they have to come to the hosting site for info, it just lists the items elsewhere. If the site is strong, the traffic will still be there...fragswapper only makes trading easier, nothing else. I too have been spoiled by the All-Ohio Swaps - and fragswapper is awesome if its used correctly. The problem I've seen with Michigan swaps is they don't use it, or use the host site and a fragswapper option. People don't want to figure out what they don't have to. Once you make the switch, people will wonder why they waited so long.

I know finding a site was an issue - the swap had a huge turnout. Nametags would definately have helped, but wouldn't have solved the problem. Maybe give them out when you pay and people could move to the other table to fill them out? Also, a spot to rest would have been awesome (people had to try to eat chilidogs standing up and huddled together at tab;e corners to set their plate down) but I know with space it was a problem. Maybe limit vendors to a few, reserve a few tables for hobbiests with a tank set-up, a few for those without a tank for a seperate price, whatever. I know space was the issue, if it was this big tihis time it will likely be bigger down the road. I know one Michigan swap was held in a hotel conference room, but again, I know its tough.

[jolson10450]

i agree with some and disagree with others, it did need more space i will give that but i disagree on the raffle, i like the raffle as it is, one for drygoods, one for live items. it gets more money for our groups. you are going to have 5 total tickets in the test kit one but in the tank one or gift card one you may have over 200-300 tickets, it lessens the changes for people to win bigger items, since it was all in one batch everyone has an = change at winning everything and if you are lucky and your ticket gets pulled first you get the better items and thats how it goes, to this day every raffle i have been in ive won more $ worth in items then i spent on the raffle so i am no money behind there and it goes to help support this hobby and our reef clubs so you shouldn't feel bad about it even if you didn't win as much because you are still helping people out and contributing to the hobby.

it was great but yeah places for people to sit down or something would of been great.

my idea was try to get ahold of a local highschool and see if we can use their cafeteria, they always have water messes and i am sure they meet the power requirements for it, a lot already have tables in them for people to sit at so that shouldnt be an issue, they are big open areas as well so i think it would be great! they could give some of the kids community service for helping vendors with things such as helping tape down wires, cleaning up water spills, helping collect the money, writeing up name tags etc...

but that is just off the top of my head, i know i am probably making it easier than it sounds but honestly it sounds like a good idea hah!

[rarelyseriousb]

my idea was try to get ahold of a local highschool and see if we can use their cafeteria, they always have water messes and i am sure they meet the power requirements for it, a lot already have tables in them for people to sit at so that shouldnt be an issue, they are big open areas as well so i think it would be great! they could give some of the kids community service for helping vendors with things such as helping tape down wires, cleaning up water spills, helping collect the money, writeing up name tags etc...



Man that is a good Idea.

[weimers75]

Good idea for the cafeterias!

As for the raffle, I agree with jenghes. I normally spend $20 on raffle tickets, but didn't want to spend $20 and end up with 3 polyps of brown zoas:( Now if I had a chance to win a huge coral it would be worth the shot. You'ld expect lots of tickets in the big one - its that much more exciting that way. I don't want to "waste" tickets on smaller ones - some do. Or what if someone won and ended up with an sps and wasn't skilled enough to do sps? It is a lot more work though - again I think its a carry-over from the All-Ohio swaps:) This was by far the best Michigan swap I have been to so the only thing to compare it to is the All-Ohios. Great job putting this together.

[Sir Patrick]

Great ideas and comments so far!

Fragswapper- I like Jims idea of integrating possibly. I also like the idea of both fragswapper and a site specific what are you bringing thread. Its up to the swapper to decide if they want to place their items where, and if they want to take the time to juggle the baught/sold/traded goods between sites, which all swappers seemed to do well at.

Swapping- Swapping has always been something that doesnt happen alot in the sense of the word- but does happen. I have always seen the "swapping" at frag swaps as- you sell some of your stuff to generate money to buy from others, unless you find someone that wants to trade with you. Both, in a sense, are swapping.

Room/space- Yeah- room was an unexpected issue this year. We doubled table sales this year, and that is before the count of the tables we had to turn away. We also had a bigger turn out of people come through this year. We got a room that held 50% more people this year than last year- and still got packed! Very good, but a little unexpected. We thought we had plenty of room.....ooops! Better luck next year!:big_grin:

We packed in the vendors/table holders to fit them all in. many have been showing up since the first swap, and wanted to incorporate the local hobbiests to share their goods. We had ALOT of interest in tables from both, and didnt want to turn any away unless we had too. We ended up having to do so anyway. We had to stick Dirk out in the parking lot. Next year will be better- guaranteed.


Empty tables- Normally we have these....but this swap grew too big too fast, unexpectedly. We had no room to put any. Normally we have some small tables with seats available to sit, relax, eat, ect. but packed as it was- no room this year. The only other issue with swap tables being used for these reasons, is some people end up "setting up shop" at these tables, which isnt fair to those that paid money to do the exact same thing. No one wants to police these tables either, in fears of coming off rude, or impolite. We like to have small tables, in community areas available for sit down breaks, socializing, and eating, but this year we werent able to accomidate unfortunatly.

I am very happy to hear everyones opinions!! We are looking forward to doing it bigger and even better next year!! Glad everyone had a great time!:highfive3:

[jolson10450]

ps, you can blame me for the table layout! we added i think 5 more tables then the original because i did it in CAD, i left spaces for the vendors but we had a few issues at the end with someone was supposed to have a few tables so had to cram them in in spots. next one will be better!

but yeah i think a cafeteria is a great idea, since its A2 area i think we could find a local high school to let us do it, we can take some of the proceeds and even try and get them a little nano tank donated and up and running in the school for letting us use the facility (if it was free i say we do that, if there is a charge then maybe not so much)

[jimsflies]

Nametags would definately have helped, but wouldn't have solved the problem. Maybe give them out when you pay and people could move to the other table to fill them out?

We had a table over by the kitchen with the name tags. They were supposed to be at the first table on the right when you came in the door, but the guy that had the table there switched them on us. Since he was already setup when I noticed, I decided to go with it. Probably should have handed them out at the door with instructions of where to fill them out.

Also glad to have the feed back. Hopefully we can make some adjustments and do it again soon.

[MizTanks]

Man that is a good Idea.

Have every vendor donate to the school. Way cool idea and a way to introduce the world of SW keeping while at the same time learning about our oceans :)

[jimsflies]

Yeah, not sure how easy an active school would be to rent. If we could find some old high school turned community center, that might work. But Food service becomes more of an effort and no more bar.

The lansing club does the classroom tank thing...let me tell you, it's not as easy as it sounds to give reef tanks to schools.... :roll:

[sdavis43]

[QUOTE=jimsflies;90615]Yeah, not sure how easy an active school would be to rent. If we could find some old high school turned community center, that might work. But Food service becomes more of an effort and no more bar.

dont let bryan here that (no more bar)

[XSiVE]

Im with jim on the schools and tanks thing.. they cant maintain them like they should be able to, its a nice gesture but in the end it rarely works out.

Keep up the ideas though, the swap can still get better and the more ideas we have the more options to improve we have!

[MUCHO REEF]

Great to see you again Jim, Bob, Brian and Todd, long time for sure. Glad we finally met Sir Patrick. Nice talking with the two reefers near the food window. Good luck to all.

Mucho

[weasel]

I'll throw my 2 cents in as a new member. I had a great time! This was my 2nd swap ever, and yes it was a bit crowded, but for those of us with little access to coral selections, decent prices, and friendly information it was wonderfull! More name tags would have been great, but we didn't bother either. More visible signs on some of the tables would have helped when we were looking for someone, but couldn't see a sign due to the crowd in front of it. Maybe even just numbers on a pole of some sort that goes with a map (loved the map by the way!).

The raffle was terrific as far as all the stuff and sheer number of corals. Being able to pick our prize was really nice. The one my husband and I won is great and doing well. We were so excited when we saw how much was being given away! We felt we had a real chance to win. I hadn't realized when I bought the tickets that they were being seperated by dry goods, or coral, so that was a little unclear. My husband had thought it was for dry goods only and passed it by the first time.

More space and somewhere to sit, eat, rest and visit with everyone would have been nice, but in the thrill of the hunt would have been neglected till much later anyway. We really liked having the drinks and food right there and at such fair prices. After all I'd rather buy another coral than eat, but my husband doesn't alway agree.

All in all, we had a super time! It was well worth the 3 hour drive each way. And I still can't help stopping to look in our tank each time I pass to admire the new additions. We can't wait for the next one! Thanks so much guys for all the hard work.

[jimsflies]

It was great to have you there! Glad you liked it.

I'm already gearing up for the big one in January. That hall has more space (probably double) our layout always has a few tables to sit and catch a break too. But I'm not going to lie...it is crowded as well.

Honestly as one of the guys putting these together, having a few comments about the crowd is a compliment. IMO it's a good problem to have.

Providing extra tables for people that didn't buy tables to set up gets to be a sticky situation as well. Not sure how the Ohio swaps deal with them...but seems like some guys may just bring in a ton of stuff and camp out, thus avoiding the expense of a "real" table?

[tazzy695]

I agree with the extra table issue but would be nice to at least have some benches or something for people to sit down during the raffle or when getting tired as some of us are old or just plain injured with bad knees and whatnot

other then that great swap first time to this one so I figure it all went well but I would split up at least the dry goods in the raffle so you could select what items you could put your tickets in for like they do at the Lansing swap

[weimers75]

Providing extra tables for people that didn't buy tables to set up gets to be a sticky situation as well. Not sure how the Ohio swaps deal with them...but seems like some guys may just bring in a ton of stuff and camp out, thus avoiding the expense of a "real" table?

That's funny that the guy switched them - but now that you mentioned what you did it made sense in the beginning;)

It is tough with the tables thing. The guys bringing a ton of stuff don't camp out. What I've seen happen is various levels, basically if you're setting up a tank, you pay one rate (these are usually all called vendors), and those who just want space another rate (usually cheaper because they aren't using electricity, etc.). Any number of levels could work, except if you had too many. Honestly, this was the first swap that I didn't buy a table partly because I didn't want to pay the same amount to have a spot to park my stuff as the guy who has a huge set-up going with lights and everything else. Also, I only had a few things, so I figured there would be first-come, first-serve type tables to park. Usually other swaps have first come type tables. Again, not a criticism at all - I know space was an issue - these are just suggestions.

[jimsflies]

I think we have seen quite an evolution of the swaps here in Michigan. I have only missed one or two swaps in 8 years. :oldman: When I first started going to them, they were in someone's basement with a cooler on the ground in front of us...lighting was poor to non-existent. Almost all corals were pre-sold on forum threads. Not a single person had a tank setup that I can recall in the early days...except maybe the host of the swap had his personal tank that we all would gather around to admire.

Then we went through a period of LFS's hosting frag swaps. These were busy and packed...still selling was bags out of coolers, all the pre-sales were on swap threads.

Now we have moved into an era were the reef clubs are hosting the swaps. The first couple years I helped with the Lansing swap we kept track of who needed power and put them near outlets...but never charged more. In the past couple years nearly everyone brings a tank to display their corals. I have seen a dramatic decrease in post count in the what are you bringing threads. I think primarily because their is less emphasis on the pre-sale and more on the sale at the swap.

I guess the point being is there seems to be so few hobbyists now that don't want power, it doesn't make sense to have a separate area or track it. I can only think of two tables yesterday that didn't plug in...Seaside Treasures (selling mostly inverts) and Salt Creep (selling his cool feeding sticks).

[jolson10450]

That's funny that the guy switched them - but now that you mentioned what you did it made sense in the beginning;)

It is tough with the tables thing. The guys bringing a ton of stuff don't camp out. What I've seen happen is various levels, basically if you're setting up a tank, you pay one rate (these are usually all called vendors), and those who just want space another rate (usually cheaper because they aren't using electricity, etc.). Any number of levels could work, except if you had too many. Honestly, this was the first swap that I didn't buy a table partly because I didn't want to pay the same amount to have a spot to park my stuff as the guy who has a huge set-up going with lights and everything else. Also, I only had a few things, so I figured there would be first-come, first-serve type tables to park. Usually other swaps have first come type tables. Again, not a criticism at all - I know space was an issue - these are just suggestions.

i like the whole no power table idea, say we had some spare tables left you can park 2-3 people on a table and charge them $5 each for a 1/3 table or something because they are using no power. one reason i commented on this is meisens setup, he has no power or water being used at his stand, he has a great setup and has some great sales to go with it, he has detailed pictures of all of his things on the bags of what he is selling and people buy them, some people like to see it live in the tank more but still it works out good, i am considering doing what he did next time, a lot less hassle of lugging water/tanks/lights/power cords/ etc. i could just get some nice colored labels and stick them on my **** cups and sell away! however i would still like to provide either a LED actinic flashlight or LED actinic plug in light to show people the color of some of the hard corals assuming most softies will be closed. its just so much less to deal with, i dont gotta worry about bagging corals or anything because they will already be prebagged and ready to go.

[jimsflies]

Oh yes...forgot about meisen. He still does it old skool. :cool4: Which was why he was on one of the center tables...one less cord across the floor. :ducttape:

BTW- I moved this thread to the A2 Club's forum...the thread format works a bit better for a discussion like this.

[vittleking]

it was a great time. I agree though, it was a lil to crowded LOL. I couldn't even make it to all the tables, and missed a lot of them. I waited till the crowd thinned out to do most of my looking. It actually paid off as I got a nice deal on a real nice 4 color chalice. Check union halls also. 900 on mich ave in Wayne is pretty large, and I used to be a member there for 15 years and might be able to get a discount. I can get our hall at 3000 at a good rate, but it's not a whole lot bigger than where it was, and it's in woodhaven. The school thing would be cool size wise, but the cocktails where kinda a nice addition LOL. Maybe washtenaw county fairgrounds, or the fairgrounds near where the swap was? Might be a good idea to get a few people with generators donate them to use for the day also. I have one that your more than welcome to use. Next year, I would try to find some people to run a grill and sell burgers, dogs, ribs, etc and use the proceeds for the A2 reef club??

[jolson10450]

it was a great time. I agree though, it was a lil to crowded LOL. I couldn't even make it to all the tables, and missed a lot of them. I waited till the crowd thinned out to do most of my looking. It actually paid off as I got a nice deal on a real nice 4 color chalice. Check union halls also. 900 on mich ave in Wayne is pretty large, and I used to be a member there for 15 years and might be able to get a discount. I can get our hall at 3000 at a good rate, but it's not a whole lot bigger than where it was, and it's in woodhaven. The school thing would be cool size wise, but the cocktails where kinda a nice addition LOL. Maybe washtenaw county fairgrounds, or the fairgrounds near where the swap was? Might be a good idea to get a few people with generators donate them to use for the day also. I have one that your more than welcome to use. Next year, I would try to find some people to run a grill and sell burgers, dogs, ribs, etc and use the proceeds for the A2 reef club??

yeah i said the same thing we could get people to donate like some deer steaks and burgers and some fish etc and have a cookout either before or after the swap and proceeds go to A2 club. i know we would get a great turn out from it! it was a suggestion i had in another thread lol

[Paulo]

First want to thank everyone that came. Posting in this thread will not be ignored. Dont know if peiple know but SirPatrick started this 3 years ago and I was a guy that read about a swap being help within 10 miles of me. I thought this was interesting and thought that I would go check it out. Was kinda cool b/c I was just some dude checking out a swap being held by another hobbiest at his place of employment. Chris and I talked some but I never knew what a freind he would be. Later a month or so later he posted hammers on a site and went and got them from him and started talkng to him. Thats when we became the freinds we are. From then on we have a drive to keep a swap in this ann arbor area. We knew that it would become a big swap in michgan. Last years swap proved the importance of a swap in this area. As the years are progressing, the popularity of the swap here is snowballing. Right now we are in a growing phase. it does inpersonalize the swap a little but that is part of the the sucess of the swap. Lots of reason we have vendors is that they want tables. They pay the same amount as anyone else does. They want the tables and lots of hobbiest do not. We have to sale tables to hold this swap. The eagles do not give us the hall for free(nor last venue). We actually allow people to presale thier stuff and bring it (others dont or have limits). I did not do as much as some did this year. But there are many hours that go into these events. We do not make much from the swap but it allows us to put money in bank to make sure we have it next year. This year we not have to take from our personal fund to hold it!!!! That is progress. I think you you calculated the amount an hour we generated from work involved to hold this swap we would have made around 10 cents per hour lol. Nice thing about having swap was it assure that one will be held next year. All of vendors were excellent. Also, Some people there were hobbiest(manoj and ect) selling their stuff to other hobbiest and giving them a pretty good deal. In all, I think we did a nice job. There always is some area for improvement. But remember, these vendors are the same people that keep this and other sites operating. We have brought an unheard of swap to one of the better around here. I love these swaps b/c it allows me to meet people that havethe same love of the hobby as me. I look forward to beng next years raffle MC if you all will alow me again.
Paulo

[Sir Patrick]

^ wouldnt be an annarbor area raffle without paulo calling it!

I had a BLAST!!!!

[MizTanks]

Im with jim on the schools and tanks thing.. they cant maintain them like they should be able to, its a nice gesture but in the end it rarely works out.

Keep up the ideas though, the swap can still get better and the more ideas we have the more options to improve we have!

I didn't mean to donate *a tank* I meant have the vendors donate 5$ towards the school.
I too agree with Jim though.

[Corvette Reefer]

my idea was try to get ahold of a local highschool and see if we can use their cafeteria, they always have water messes and i am sure they meet the power requirements for it, a lot already have tables in them for people to sit at so that shouldnt be an issue, they are big open areas as well so i think it would be great! they could give some of the kids community service for helping vendors with things such as helping tape down wires, cleaning up water spills, helping collect the money, writeing up name tags etc...

thats what i said, we should have it at my high school its prefect. the only thing sirpatrick wants availbility to alchol, so he says no. But i think more space is more inmportant than beer. lol

[jolson10450]

thats what i said, we should have it at my high school its prefect. the only thing sirpatrick wants availbility to alchol, so he says no. But i think more space is more inmportant than beer. lol

yeah we can just get hammered in the parking lot, or go to the bathroom and drop a shot in our drink haha jk!