LED's for small desktop frag tank

[nate_newton]

So I'm putting LED's in the idea bin for my small frag tank, currently it has the 10" T5's. It measure's 12"x21"x9". The tank is mainly for SPS, mostly Montipora's and Birdsnests. How many leds would you suggest to light the tank?

[jolson10450]

roughly 12, I have a 5.5g mini nano that measures 16"x10"x8" tall and i have 6 leds over it and it lights it perfect, with the 21"x12" you will need a decent amount more, buy a DIY kit with 12 leds in it from rapidled.com here is the link:

http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-60/12-Ultra-Premium-LED/Detail

you will also need 6 optics to add to it for the xp-g LEDS unless you decide to go with no optics which at only 9" deep you possibly could, or use 80 degree optics, i would buy them just in case so you dont have to pay shipping if you change your mind.

go to heatsinkusa.com and pick out an appropriate heatsink for your application, i usually space my LEDS 2" apart evenly but its really personal preference.

the rough cost with shipping and everything should be roughly $150 i would say but it will last you 5+ years

[evilc66]

12 could work. A few more wouldn't hurt for some additional coverage considering the length of the tank.

There should never be a reason for using optics on a tank that small, unless you plan on mounting the fixture extremely high. There isn't even a real need to use XP-G LEDs either, and in this case I'd steer clear of them, and go with neutral white XR-Es. Sps seem to be a little more finikey when it comes to color rendering, and the neutral white LEDs will help quite a bit with that, especially seeing as you are planning on reselling the frags, where apearance is most important.

[nate_newton]

So 12 or white then, any blue? I do have some zoa's and a few chalices also, I'd say maybe 1/3 of the tank. I guess I'll just keep my 2 6"x7" heatsinks and use them for mounting. One other question. Since this will be close to water what should I use to protect it. Previously I've used acrylic from Loew's. Because there is some heat it bows down, what's best to use and can still support the fixture?



12 could work. A few more wouldn't hurt for some additional coverage considering the length of the tank.

There should never be a reason for using optics on a tank that small, unless you plan on mounting the fixture extremely high. There isn't even a real need to use XP-G LEDs either, and in this case I'd steer clear of them, and go with neutral white XR-Es. Sps seem to be a little more finikey when it comes to color rendering, and the neutral white LEDs will help quite a bit with that, especially seeing as you are planning on reselling the frags, where apearance is most important.

[evilc66]

You always have to use blue LEDs. The 12 LED count was for both colors.

If the acrylic is bowing, then use something thicker. Acrylic is the best option, as it's cheap and easy to work with.

[nate_newton]

Thanks I thought you meant blue too but didn't mention it.

[evilc66]

It's always implied. The only time you would use white only is for freshwater planted tanks. They are too yellow by themselves for reefs.

[nate_newton]

What happened to the dimmable Meanwell drivers on Nanotuners? Didn't they also have an led kit?

[cg5071]

The link jolson gave has some decent looking stuff. FWIW since I am not a pro with LED's. They have the dimmable ones but pay attention since one works with reefkeeper and something else then the other works with something else yet.

[nate_newton]

Thanks Chris, I was searching and came upon that site also. Though I wish I could do a reefkeeper or similar, probably not for awhile. It should be interesting since you have a lot of the same as I have but under MH.


The link jolson gave has some decent looking stuff. FWIW since I am not a pro with LED's. They have the dimmable ones but pay attention since one works with reefkeeper and something else then the other works with something else yet.

[cg5071]

I am really looking into a reefkeeper $99 to start with and if you look at it like the cost of a couple of timers and some other things that really isnt very expensive. The thing with the starter kit is that it only has 4 plugs(you can order another 4 plugs for like 80$) but they have a thing now that you can turn in your RKL (lite) on the elite one and it rebates some money. Get a starter unit and upgrade later. I would get a dimmable ballast also just so I would have that option even if I couldnt controll it right away.

The thing was that the Rk's can control the led's so dusk/dawn and ramping up to full light is possible. But again it is like another 70$ for that modual.

The monti''s are doing really great. I have some partway under the halide and some between both the halide and T5's. The pokerstars ployps are changing to oranges and some look like the start of green/blue. The purple haze is getting reddish around the edges and the confusa and red planet have a bit of green to them. I really love the flowerpetals too though they havnt really changed other than become a bit darker. I really really really appreciate you selling them to me,lol. No really! :) They were all healthy just not totally colored up.

I am looking into leds for a nano also, let me know what you find. On that one site the drivers run 8-14 lights when I cant possibly use that many on a 5g. I will also someday hopefully before spring be building one for a 15g frag tank.

[evilc66]

What happened to the dimmable Meanwell drivers on Nanotuners? Didn't they also have an led kit?

Meanwells are out of stock right now, which is why we don't have them on the site right now. Even though we don't want to force shoppers to go elsewhere, we are doing this to reduce issues with long backorder delays.

[nate_newton]

Thats smart, some places when they're out of stock the add to cart button says out of stock and does nothing. I emailed but it looks like they're out of stock on the Neutral White leds also.
My plan is to go with the MeanWell ELN-60-48D, 14 leds; should I do 7 and 7, or 8 blue and 6 white. Does this sound ok?


Meanwells are out of stock right now, which is why we don't have them on the site right now. Even though we don't want to force shoppers to go elsewhere, we are doing this to reduce issues with long backorder delays.

[nate_newton]

I am really looking into a reefkeeper $99 to start with and if you look at it like the cost of a couple of timers and some other things that really isnt very expensive. The thing with the starter kit is that it only has 4 plugs(you can order another 4 plugs for like 80$) but they have a thing now that you can turn in your RKL (lite) on the elite one and it rebates some money. Get a starter unit and upgrade later. I would get a dimmable ballast also just so I would have that option even if I couldnt controll it right away.

The thing was that the Rk's can control the led's so dusk/dawn and ramping up to full light is possible. But again it is like another 70$ for that modual.

The monti''s are doing really great. I have some partway under the halide and some between both the halide and T5's. The pokerstars ployps are changing to oranges and some look like the start of green/blue. The purple haze is getting reddish around the edges and the confusa and red planet have a bit of green to them. I really love the flowerpetals too though they havnt really changed other than become a bit darker. I really really really appreciate you selling them to me,lol. No really! :) They were all healthy just not totally colored up.

I am looking into leds for a nano also, let me know what you find. On that one site the drivers run 8-14 lights when I cant possibly use that many on a 5g. I will also someday hopefully before spring be building one for a 15g frag tank.

Thanks, you're welcome. Glad to hear the pokerstars are coloring back up.

[evilc66]

Thats smart, some places when they're out of stock the add to cart button says out of stock and does nothing. I emailed but it looks like they're out of stock on the Neutral White leds also.
My plan is to go with the MeanWell ELN-60-48D, 14 leds; should I do 7 and 7, or 8 blue and 6 white. Does this sound ok?

You can't safely run 14 LEDs on an ELN-6048D. 12 max if you are running XR-Es or XP-Es. You can run up to 14 XP-Gs on a single driver, but that's because they have a lower average forward voltage then the other LEDs.

If you are going to run neutral white and royal blue on the same driver, you will want to go with a 1:2 ratio, or close to it to get a decent color temperature. With the increased red and reduced blue output of the neutrals, you need to use more royal blues to balance the color, as well as raise PAR levels back up.

[cg5071]

So there isnt a problem running both colors on the same driver?

[evilc66]

No. The only thing you need to be concerned with is if the LEDs can all be run at the same current, and the total forward voltage of all the LEDs is under the limit of the driver (48v in the case of the ELN-60-48D).

[nate_newton]

You can't safely run 14 LEDs on an ELN-6048D. 12 max if you are running XR-Es or XP-Es. You can run up to 14 XP-Gs on a single driver, but that's because they have a lower average forward voltage then the other LEDs.

If you are going to run neutral white and royal blue on the same driver, you will want to go with a 1:2 ratio, or close to it to get a decent color temperature. With the increased red and reduced blue output of the neutrals, you need to use more royal blues to balance the color, as well as raise PAR levels back up.

Thanks, thats why I'm checking with you. I thought something wasn't right. I got an email from Nick saying they got the Neutrals in but only enough to fill the backorders. So should I go the Cool White or Neutral? What combination would you run for each? I just want to make sure to have enough light to grow sps. I wish the PicoLamp was out. I would also consider running the Meanwell LPC-20-700 to power a few extra blues if needed.

[evilc66]

The PicoLamp is out. The "pre-order" notification on the website is incorrect. The fixtures are built pretty much to order, so there is a little lead time right now. If you are interested, call the shop and see how long it would take.

As for the LEDs to DIY, I'd probably go neutral white over cool at this point. It will offer better color rendering than the cool whites. The cool whites aren't too shabby by themselves, but the neutrals are an improvement. If you are going to use fixed output drivers, use a ratio of 2:1 royal blue to neutral white. That seems to work the best. If you use dimmable drivers, go 50/50, as it will let you lay out the array better for better color mixing. Adjust the color temperature to your liking at that point.

[nate_newton]

Great thank you. I will check on the lead time. So does the picolamp have the neutral or cool white. Is the PicoLamp 12.3 enough for my tank and sps?

[evilc66]

Now that I go back and look at your tank size, the PicoLamp isn't going to work. At 21" long, the lamp will not be able to cover the entire length of the tank.

[nate_newton]

Ok, guess I can cross that off. So what do you think about the solderless connections rapidled has? On a side note heatsinkusa now has low profile 10" wide heatsinks.

[evilc66]

You won't need a 10" wide heatsink with only two rows of LEDs. The 5.37" profile will be enough. It's not as tall, and costs a lot less.

The solderless connection are fairly nice. They do force you to drill and tap the heatsink though. The only reason we didn't deceide to use them is that you can't us most of the standard optics with them. The connectors were a joint venture between BJB and Carclo, so you have to use Carclos optics, which are too tight for most reef applications. In your situation, you don't care about optics, unless you are mounting the fixture high off the tank.

[nate_newton]

Great Thanks, that does cut cost. I think I will go with dimmable drivers so I can mix the colors and make sure there's not too much light. So I'll be using two ELN-60-48D's, and will need atleast 8 on each. More than 8? Since you mention using the 5" heatsink, what length should I get? Thanks, you've been a ton of help.

[evilc66]

8 of each is plenty. Spacing the array at 2" per LED on each row, and space each row 3" apart. With that spacing a 16" long heatsink will be plenty.

[nate_newton]

I'm having a hard time drilling into the heatsink so I can thread the screw holes. I think I just might be using the thermal adhesive instead.

[evilc66]

High drill speed, low pressure, and cutting lubricant is the trick. Anything from WD40 to cooking oil will work. Use a lubricant when tapping too. If you don't know how to tap threads, search and learn about it.

[nate_newton]

Great thanks got all the holes done. On to mounting the stars to the heatsink. Anything special I should know about using the solderless connectors? Thanks

[creefer]

I hope you plan on posting some progress pics....

[nate_newton]

I hope you plan on posting some progress pics....

I will soon once see it light up.

[nate_newton]

Here's a pic of the fixture finished.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i161/newtonn/IMG_7809.jpg

[evilc66]

The mount is certainly beefy. Pleased with the results?

[nate_newton]

Lol yes the 1" aluminum bar does give that appearance. Extremely pleased. Thank You
I decided to add led's to my nano contest build and will just wire it right in with the tank since I have room for more led's on the drivers. Using 18g wire, can I run an additional 4-6ft of wire to my nano?


The mount is certainly beefy. Pleased with the results?

[evilc66]

Shouldn't be a problem. Twist the wires together to help reduce induced interference. Cordless drills work great for this. Clamp one end of the wires, and chuck the other end in the drill.

[nate_newton]

Great, next up my main tank, the 24g Cube (http://www.captivereefs.com/forum/members-reefs/nates-24g-macro-reef-cube-10795/).