Noobie looking for help!

[Soonerfan12]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I am a beginner in the world of salt water reef keeping, I am starting a new tank, 150g ( they said the bigger the better, hope so it's on the way already) I know this is a reef site, i do intend on keeping corals but not right away. I am going to start with just the live rock and sand and see what it has on it with the fish as well, My question is long and i'm sure to most kind of silly but i just want to do this right so here goes. I'm not sure i understand the refugium aspect, does this have to be paired with a wet dry or does it replace one, also do i need a canister filter as well, seems like all of that together is over doing it. Also what do you put in a refugium? I was thinking about two 36" orbit pc lights, with the moon lights 6 total and 4 96 watt bulbs 2 actinic and two 10,000, is this a good starting place for lighting or am i way under the norm, the tank is 28" tall? i live in FL so a heater is probably out. I also am kinda unsure about all the little things I'll need that i'm not budgeting for. I know it would take all day to list all the necessary components but if there is something most people forget that would be helpfull. When I start the process i'll document it so you can explain wht i'm doing wrong, why cause it's going to happen, trust me. I have a nack for stupid little things....thanks for any help Ken....#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Whoyah]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#150 gallon!!! Nice starter tank.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Refugiums serve a couple purposes. The macroalgae sucks up alot of the nitrates, phospates and other bad things in the tank which prevents problem algaes like hair algae from cropping up. It is much easier prune the macroalgae then deal with hair algae. It also offer a sancuary (sp?) for micro critters like copepodes to flurish."Pods" are an excellent food source for fish and they also cleaners of sorts. A healthy reef tank will have angood population of pods and other micro critters supporting the bottom end of the food chain. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The common belief is that canister filter is a waste of money and thatmoney you wouldspend ona wet/dry should go toward more live rock(LR).Real both the LR and wet/dry do the same thing, however the LR will not be aspot for nitrates to gather.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The thing you really need are a tank, good lights, a sump, a rufugium, and kick butt skimmer, plus LR and some sand. The lights you mention are great for fish and probably low light corals (mushrooms & zoathids) but you willneed to jump up to more light if you want higher end corals. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Iwill let some one else jump in now since it is time for bed.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Reptoreef]

Whoyah is on it... a 150 is an awesome choice(larger is easier for care). As far as equipement: Tank... covered, sump/refugium(no wet/dry)... mentioned, Skimmer... the bigger the better(Deltec, ASM, Euro Reef, H&S, etc... I'm biased for needle wheel pumps), your lighting plan seems PAR as mentioned(leave room for the upgrade bug), Lotsa LR, and lastly... get some good reads, a patience stock pile, and welcome to Captive Reefing!!!

[Soonerfan12]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I think i'm confused about the difference between a sump and the refugium i thought they where the same? sorry like I said super new. also ive looked into a refugium thing on ebay from aqua universe. the kit has what i thought was everything i would need including the skimmer and lights for $250, check it out at EBAY-http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7706245957&rd=1&sspage name=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1sorry i dont know how to make it so you can just click it. any way if this is garbage please let me know, i'm getting the buy bug and i can't take it!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[dakar]

I think what has you confused is the fact in that auction they have a tank that is separated into chambers. A refugium is where you would keep macro algaes, some live rock, sand etc, as stated above. A sump is where you would place your skimmer, water from your display, etc. A sump can be nothing more than a rubbermaid container to collect water from your overflow and house your skimmer. A refugium the same way, though I prefer a tank so I can see inside (lots of cool stuff grows in there to look at).

There are several ways to plumb water to each it'll depend on your needs and what you have for space.

Before you jump on that auction, I'd get some more details, it *looks* complete, but there is no mention of what size that tank is, so it's hard to judge. The 2x13w lighting fixture will likely be underpowered unless it's really as small as it appears, looks like maybe a 20g tank. What brand and size (footprint / height) is the skimmer), I can't make out what the return pumps are..... I'd want far more details before I ****ed away $250.

[dakar]

Here's a thread with lots of pictures and some explanations on sumps/fuges that may help; http://www.captivereefing.com/viewtopic.php?t=554

[Soonerfan12]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#the tank is 15 gallons and the skimmer is rated at 200 gallons for whaterver thats worth, the pumps are a CA 3000 rated at 950 gph, I don't know much but i would assume this is kinda small for 150 g tank?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Soonerfan12]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#So does the water go through the skimmer and sump before the refugium, and they can be housed in the smae tank if there seperated? also i keep reading about mud which do you recomend for a new person or does it matter. also the LFS guy said he would help me build a DIY refugium sump,but he seems a little shady money wise, he wanted about 1,000 dollars more for a similar setup to the one i,m purchasing. Would asking him for help probably be good or bad?#ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[dakar]

15g, I think you'll find that to be rather small for a 150 display, it'd be pretty cramped, and really doesn't add much to your water column, that's one of the primary functions of a sump, to increase the total water volume. 30 or so gallons for a sump would be great, another 20ish for a refuge would help. What are you putting the display tank on and what the interior dimensions of the cabinet are?

Just my opinion, but it sounds like he's seeing nothing but green. I built that sump and refuge (48"xx16"x16") pictured in that other thread for our 55g out of acrylic using nothing but a tablesaw and a router (optional) for well under $100 in materials. Nothing to it really. But I'd happily build you one for 1/2 of the $1k he's looking for! :razz:

The skimmer is one thing I would not reccommend skimping on, sometimes knock-offs will work, some need serious modifications, some are total junk. A lot of opinions in this area, likely what is in that package isn't worth much (just can't tell from the images and no description doesn't help either).

As far as where water goes when it comes from the display it depends on what
YOU want. Personally, I like having water going to both the sump and the refuge straight from the overflow that way nutrients get to the refuge to feed the macros and other critters before being skimmed out. The jury is still out on whether the fuges do better with higher or lower flow raters, but depending on how much water you are moving you can run it all through the refuge then to the sump/sklimmer, but there will always be some limting factors. Always lots of options.

[jerryc]

Look at it this way take a 3 foot tank divide it in three compartments the first compartment your water from tank gos in with your skimmer the next one is
your refugium the next one is for your return pump back to display

Don't no if this helps but its the way i first understood it

[Soonerfan12]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Thanks all for all the help. I found a DIY refugium kit on ebay with all the panels and bulkheads so all i need is a used 30 gallon tank. I think the bigger the sump i can have the better. anyway i appreciate the help feel free to add on i'll be checking this for awhile, at leastuntil i can post pics of a tank in progress....ken#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Whoyah]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I have made a couple refugiums and sumps.Really easy. At this point I would recommend building one your self and save the funds for other stuff. I have a 20 gallon long split roughly in half (sump and fuge)for my 75.I wish I had gone bigger.Everything fits but is is a tight squeeze in the sump side. I bet youcould find a used 55 pretty cheap. I agree with Dakarabout liking to see what going on in the fuge and sump.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[tigersax7]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"#ed_cl#hello, #ed_op#?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /#ed_cl##ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"#ed_cl# I might be new to this forum but I have a few things to share... the lighting you have or plan to have is adequate but in my experience the PC's tend to be more costly in the long run and offer little in the way of upgrades other then adding additional units (if you have the room). In addition PC bulbs cost more in the long run, almost twice as much as VHOs. My advice would be just go with the VHO. You can ad additional ballast and bulbs as needed. The price for the unit, to start off with, is comparable to the PC, with the addition of a canopy.#ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"#ed_cl#As far as a refugium or sump goes, you don't really need one to start with, especially with a new tank. Try checking out the #ed_op#?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /#ed_cl##ed_op#st1:State w:st="on"#ed_cl##ed_op#st1:place w:st="on"#ed_cl#Berlin#ed_op#/st1:place#ed_cl##ed_op#/st1:State#ed_cl# method of reef keeping.#ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"#ed_cl#Later,#ed_op#BR#ed_cl#tigersax7#ed_op#o:p#e d_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#