2011 Nano Contest - sponsored by Nano Customs

[jimsflies]

http://www.captivereefs.com/misc_images/2011-nano-contest.png
2011 Nano Contest

Contest Dates
Begin Stocking: January 9, 2011
Last Day to Enter: February 26, 2011
Last Day to add Livestock: April 30, 2011
Last Day of Contest: May 28, 2011
Judging Complete: June 19, 2011








Judging


Overall Best Nano - The prize will be awarded to the overall best nano and will be voted on by CR general membership. To qualify you must update your contest thread at minimum as specified below. Better documentation will likely impact your chances of winning.

This year's prize is being provided by Nano Customs. It is a brand new 10-inch LED fixture that they are soon to release. The winner will be able to pick the custom options they want on the fixture. Although not yet released the anticipated, MSRP for the prize is $299.


http://www.captivereefs.com/forum/images/dto_vendor/banner/1024_3.gif (http://www.nanocustoms.com")

System Requirements

Tank: Display tank with a water volume of 30 gallons or less may be used

Sump: Total water volume may not be more than 30 gallons (e.g., 30 gallon display may not have an additional sump, a 10 gallon tank could have a 20 gallon sump).

Equipment: You may use any equipment (pumps, powerheads, skimmers, reactors, etc.) that you want.

Additives: Any additive is also allowed.


Livestock Requirements

Spending Limit: The spending limit on corals is $400. Corals purchased from CR sponsors count half toward the spending limit. For example if you spend $100 from non-sponsors, you can spend another $600 from sponsors and will have spent the $400 limit. You must post a receipt with a picture of the stock to allow for others to see what you have spent. Receipts will be necessary to prove source of purchase for corals that are purchased from sponsors. If you are also participating in the grow out contest, you can put those in your nano and it will count $40 against your spending limit.

On hand Livestock: You may stock your nano with livestock you already own from another system. You need to clearly identify which pieces you are adding and document the size. You will also need to post a market price for the piece which will count against the $400 spending cap. Live stock obtained "free" from other sources also is subject to this requirement. A generic price guide is presented below to help determine value of livestock.

Temporarily Exceeding Spending Limit:You may temporarily exceed your limit if for some reason you need to move stock from another system to your nano or use it for a quarantine tank. This will not automatically disqualify you from the contest. However, by April 30 (one month before the end of the contest) you must show that you haven't spent more than the contest limit based on the purchase price or determined value when the coral was added to the tank. In other words if you spent $20 on a colony of zoas and it doubles in size by April 30, this colony will still count as $20 toward your limit.

Trades: You may trade any corals in your tank with other CR members. All trades will be public knowledge, this means that after the trade you must make a post stating who you traded with, what came out of your nano and what you got in return. Trades from your nano tank won't count toward the contest spending cap.

Fish and Inverts: You may add any other non-coral livestock you wish to your tank. These additions must be documented on your build thread. The last date any livestock may be added is April 30, 2011. In general, Fish and other livestock do not count toward the coral spending limit. However, anemones and clams (and other sessile invertebrates..e.g., sea apples, filter feeding cucumbers, etc.) count toward the spending limit as they are more coral-like than fish-like....crabs, shrimp, snails, and starfish would not count toward the coral budget.

Macro Algae: If your macro algae is in your sump or fuge, then it is part of the filtration system and not counted toward the livestock spending limit. If macro algae is in your display, it is considered part of the aesthetics of the display and is counted toward the spending limit.

Lost Livestock: Should any stock die, this should also be noted in the build thread. Excessive deaths would likely impact winning the Overall Best Nano Category. As the goal here is to build a healthy sustainable nano tank. Deaths cannot be deducted from the spending limit.


Additional Contest Rules


You may start your construction and cycle at any time. You may not stock the tank with corals until January 9, 2011. To insure this on January 9, 2011 at 12AM EST, an announcement will be made about an item that must be placed in the tank and photographed showing the tank is not yet stocked. This picture must be the first photo in each members contest thread. It will be a common item e.g., canned food, a key word written on paper and placed in the bottom of the tank, each member giving a thumbs up next to the tank, etc.



You may also start with cured rock if desired.



Tank stocking may begin on January 9, 2011.



You are welcome to start late on the contest, up to Febraury 26, 2011.


Each participant will need to start their own build thread in the contest forum (http://www.captivereefs.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=159). At a minimum each participant is REQUIRED to update their contest thread at least 2 times a month WITH pictures, updates can be whenever the member would like. The update must be made at least 7 days apart. Participants are encouraged to post updates more often if they would like.



No additional livestock can be added within 30 days of the contest end, April 30, 2011.



The following is a list of prices to help determine value of on hand corals or free corals obtained from other reefers.

Zoa/Palys-
No names- $1 PP
not really colorful at all
Common- $2 PP
EE, Whammin' watermelons, red skirts, dragon eyes, pink panthers etc.
Nice- $5 PP
Nukes, PD's, Tubbs blues, Bam Bam's,AOG's, RPE etc.
Rare- $20 PP or more depends on what one
Magicians, PPE, Hornets, Captain America
LPS-
Fungias- any color $45 to 60
Brains frags 1 1/2 inch- $25
Frogspawn/Hammer/Torch/duncans- $10 per head being nice on this one well sell the them for $20 per head and the duncans $15 per head
Trumpets any color- $10 per head
Blastos- $10 to 50 per head depends on color
Micromussa per polyp -$30
Favias frags 1 1/2 inch -$25
Gonipora 5" -$50 <- Poor Survival rate
Dendros- $25 per head
Sun Coral frag-$10 to $25 depends on size
Acans-
--Common -$5 per head
--Nice -$10 per head
--Rare -$20 per head some may cost more.
Chalice-
--Common -$10 per SQ inch
--Nice -$10 per eye
--Rare -$50 to $400 per eye
Leathers/softies-
Mushrooms - $10 per polyp some may cost more
Ricordea $20 per polyp and up depends on color
Yumas- $30 and up per polyp depends on color
GSP- 10$ per 1 inch square
Kenya trees- 10$ per Sm frag
Xenia-
--Pom Pom -$10 per stalk
--Blue xenia - $10 per stalk
--Anthelia frag 1 1/2 inchs - $10
Other leathers frags brown $10 green leathers $25 and up depends on size and where it comes from
green Clove polyps - $10 per polyp, Reg cloves $10 per inch
SPS-
Any Morph- branching, encrusting, caps etc.Some may cost more!!
1/2" -1" -$10
1"-2" -$20
2" - 3" - $40
3" - 5" $60
Other inverts-
Feather dusters- $10 to $30 depends what kind of duster
Gorgonians, sea fans, sea whips, sea rods-Sm frags $10,and up to a $100 depends on size
Sponges-$20 and up depends on size

Nems- - $30 and up depends on what kind and size
Macros-
Any Macro - $2 a sandwich bag
Mangroves- Sm $10 MD $20

[cg5071]

Woo Hoo! sounds fun

[jimsflies]

Here are some details about the Nano Contest prize from Nano Customs:

The prize will be a complete 10" Universal DIY Fixture, populated with the winners choice of LED arrangements to suit the tank they have. Everything will be pre-assembled by Nano Customs and tested prior to shipping, and the winner will have the choice of acrylic top cover (clear, black, or white). The prize will also include hanging hardware. Approximate value is ~$400 dollars.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/evilc66/DSC_06000005.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/evilc66/DSC_06010004.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/evilc66/DSC_06020003.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/evilc66/DSC_06030002.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/evilc66/DSC_06040001.jpg

[cg5071]

Wow nice. Not to complain but it seems an odd shape unless you have a pre-fab nano system. Any chance they could put the same value on a longer slimmer system if the winner wanted? Just a thought.
I just want to get some final thoughts on something. I am putting together a 15g frag tank because I really need one but it would also make a nice sump for my 5g hex nano. Will that be legal? I of course wouldnt be counting the frags as coral towards the nano.

[CalmSeasQuest]

Hmm looks like a fun contest. To nano or not to nano - That is the question :)

[cg5071]

nano-nano :)

[jimsflies]

nano nano
http://www.captivereefs.com/jim/mork.jpg

[Sir Patrick]

That light fixture is sweet!!!!

[jimsflies]

No buy in.

[creefer]

If only I could talk my wife into getting another tank, I'd be in....

[evilc66]

Jim, thanks for giving us the honor of sponsoring the contest. Hopefully we see some great tanks come out of it.


Wow nice. Not to complain but it seems an odd shape unless you have a pre-fab nano system. Any chance they could put the same value on a longer slimmer system if the winner wanted? Just a thought.
I just want to get some final thoughts on something. I am putting together a 15g frag tank because I really need one but it would also make a nice sump for my 5g hex nano. Will that be legal? I of course wouldnt be counting the frags as coral towards the nano.

A fixture like this covers the greatest number of tanks, and with the LED portion of things being built to the winners specs, everyone and anyone will be able to take advantage of it in some way. While it would be nice of us to give the winner free reign to design whatever they wanted, we wanted to offer a product that we can post pictures of real parts that they can win.

I hope everyone does like the fixture. It's something I've been working on for a while to solve the "ugly DIY LED fixture" syndrome, while keeping it flexible. The bare fixture will be going on sale soon, and we will have details in our sponsor forum here on CR, so keep your eyes peeled for that.

Good luck on the contest everyone.

[jimsflies]

I just want to get some final thoughts on something. I am putting together a 15g frag tank because I really need one but it would also make a nice sump for my 5g hex nano. Will that be legal? I of course wouldnt be counting the frags as coral towards the nano.

Sorry I missed this question earlier...yes that is fine. As long as your total volume is less than 30 gallons. I think that will be ok to not count the $$ of the frags in the frag tank toward your display. Just be sure not to "feature" the frag tank frags too much in your contest thread. I don't want people to be too influenced by corals that aren't counting toward your spending cap.

[cg5071]

Right, ok. No real pics of the frags/tank.
I really wasnt complaining at all. I am sure it will be a great light for whatever use the winner can put it too.

[2pairs]

OK, I have a question.

Would it be OK to buy coral now for the contest?
So long as it isn't put in the tank for the contest until after 1-9-11?
Just keep them in our main tank until it starts?

[whitetiger61]

OK, I have a question.

Would it be OK to buy coral now for the contest?
So long as it isn't put in the tank for the contest until after 1-9-11?
Just keep them in our main tank until it starts?

I am assuming u can buy corals anytime so as long as they dont go in the contest tank..It says in the rules that u can use corals from a system u already have in a system u already have so i would think u can buy corals for it now..btw hi Jim..

Rick

[jimsflies]

Yes, that is correct. You can add existing corals. However, they will need to count against the spending cap. If you get them from a sponsor hold on to your receipt, they only will count as half of what it cost toward the spending limit.

[2pairs]

Yes, that is correct. You can add existing corals. However, they will need to count against the spending cap. If you get them from a sponsor hold on to your receipt, they only will count as half of what it cost toward the spending limit.


Good deal, that gives me a excuse to buy some more coral. (not that I needed a reason or excuse)
I have never done anything like this before, should be lots of fun.

BTW Hi back to you Rick

[whitetiger61]

looking forward to see what u do with your nano..

Rick

[cg5071]

Hey 2pairs. :) How are your horsies doing?

[scubamomma]

i need to find another nano!!!

[rosebud161616]

I'm actually building a nano for this contest. Just siliconed it tonight, so I can't wait to water test it! I was hoping for a cash incentive with this contest... Oh well the tank is built... might as well enter now!

[2pairs]

looking forward to see what u do with your nano..

Rick

It is hard to tell yet, but it will be a 10gal AIO.


Hey 2pairs. :) How are your horsies doing?

Seahorses are doing good, we just aren't raising any babies for a little while.

[whitetiger61]

[QUOTE=2pairs;97112]It is hard to tell yet, but it will be a 10gal AIO.


looking forward to seeing it come along

Rick

[jimsflies]

I'm actually building a nano for this contest. Just siliconed it tonight, so I can't wait to water test it! I was hoping for a cash incentive with this contest... Oh well the tank is built... might as well enter now!

Start your tank thread here in the nano contest forum and show us some pics.

In fact, I encourage all that are participating to get your threads started. It would be great to see some shots of you guys setting up your tanks in preparation for the contest. :popcorn:

[cg5071]

2pairs. That is good. Too much like work? lol

[jimsflies]

You guys can begin stocking your tanks. But before you do, to show everyone that your tank doesn't have livestock in it yet, write on a piece of white paper "CR is Great!" and either place it in, or next to your tank, and photograph it such that we can see the paper and the fact that no livestock is present yet. Then post it in your build threads in the 2011 Nano Contest Forum. This should be the first photo posted before posting any photos showing livestock.

[rosebud161616]

I have a question on the stocking rules...

The rules say the $400 is for corals only. Does that include anemones? How about Clams?

Thanks!

[cg5071]

Good question, but I think they should count. In a nano they would be a big portion of it, I would think.

Jim can answer for sure I was just stating my opinion on it.

[scubamomma]

ugh i lost my receipts only had and i lost them!

[jimsflies]

All livestock besides fish count toward the budget. I have added the price guide for on hand/no receipt livestock to the first post of this thread.

[rosebud161616]

I had no idea that the macros in your fuge would count... I was under the impressing this was a competition about corals. This may change the whole plan because it's going to seriously eat up my budget. I might just do a fun nano out of the competition...

[jolson10450]

i think macros should not count as long as they are not in the picture of your display when judging takes place. say if you are judged just by your display and your fuge/sump has the macros and mangroves in it then they should not count against you but if you have the mangroves and macros in the display tank then they should count against you.

[cg5071]

^ Ditto ^

[nate_newton]

Thanks for the price list. I didn't know bam bams go for $5pp. Guess I need to figure out the price of my chalice.

[jimsflies]

Just a few words about the budget....

The budget is in place to level the playing field and not turn the contest into an "arms race". I believe anyone can buy a lot of corals, arrange them neatly, and keep them alive for at least a month (last day to add livestock is April 30). Reefers that are the most successful long term, are able to grow corals and negotiate sales and trades which helps offset their costs for operation and acquiring new specimens. Conveniently, CR has everything you need to help you negotiate sales and trades. :)

Sales from corals coming out of your nano count as a negative budget item. In other words, if take a 10 polyp frag of bam bams from your existing display (which would count as $50 toward your budget) and grow them out to 15 polyps, then sell 5 polyps for $25...that 10 polyp frag only ends up counting as $25 toward your budget. Similarly, if you trade your 5 polyp frag to someone for a polyp of ppes, then the ppe didn't cost your budget anything. Further, if you purchased your bam bams from a CR sponsor for $50, it would only count as $25 toward your budget....then if you sell your 5 polyp frag for $25, the bam bams didn't count against the budget at all. It is important that you post your transactions and take photos so that everyone is aware of how you got to where you end up at the end of the contest.

Regarding macro algae, I agree with Justin. If your macro algae is in your sump or fuge, then it is part of the filtration system and not counted as livestock. Now if you are doing a macro algae display where the algae is part of the aesthetics of what you are trying to accomplish, then yes it is counted.

[jolson10450]

jim, that makes it a little more clear. so ok right now i have a 20 polyp acan in there right now counting as $100 towards my budget, if in 2 months it grows 10 more polyps i could frag them off and that same 20 polyp acan will only count as $50 towards my budget now? that sounds i believe how you explained it.

the trading part i am a little confused about still though. i guess it is the same situation, if i have the 20 polyp acan and it grows 10 poylps and i frag them new 10 polyps off and trade it for lets say 3 poylps of rastas then it still only counts as the original 20 poylp acan even though i am now adding the rastas because i got them in a trade?

[cg5071]

Sounds correct Justin. At least that is how I understood it as well.

[jimsflies]

Yes, that sounds right.

[jimsflies]

Clarification about Inverts:

In general, Fish and other livestock do not count toward the coral spending limit. However, anemones and clams (and other sessile invertebrates..e.g., sea apples, filter feeding cucumbers, etc.) count toward the spending limit as they are more coral-like than fish-like....crabs, shrimp, snails, and starfish would not count toward the coral budget.

[2pairs]

Good, then I can subtract the cost of the cleaners.

[scubamomma]

If we purchase frags at the swap do we post price paid or market price

[whitetiger61]

I was wondering that myself..good question..

Rick

[jimsflies]

I'd say market price unless you get a receipt (I realize this is unlikely). If we find that the price list is inaccurate, we can change the value of things on the price list. This list is from last year and certainly market can change from year to year.

[scubamomma]

Looking at price list is killing me! I paid 20$ for unknown zoa rock but its $100 according to the list lol

[jolson10450]

yeah that swap is going to be tough if you don't get a receipt especially if you buy it from a sponsor there, if i do this i may bring a pad of paper and write down "i bought an acan from happy coral for $25" then have the guy sign it or print his name or something to make it valid would that be ok?

[jimsflies]

You guys are killing me.... I need a beer! :shots:

[jimsflies]

yeah that swap is going to be tough if you don't get a receipt especially if you buy it from a sponsor there, if i do this i may bring a pad of paper and write down "i bought an acan from happy coral for $25" then have the guy sign it or print his name or something to make it valid would that be ok?

This idea seems acceptable. This would also hold true for any other swap across the country (should other members from other states join the nano contest) and be at a swap where one of our sponsors was attending.

[jolson10450]

This idea seems acceptable. This would also hold true for any other swap across the country (should other members from other states join the nano contest) and be at a swap where one of our sponsors was attending.

i am thinking signature and first and last printed name if possible, because i could just write the guys name down so to make it valid i say we require both. so if you want the sponsor discount then have them do it people! lol

[whitetiger61]

yeah that swap is going to be tough if you don't get a receipt especially if you buy it from a sponsor there, if i do this i may bring a pad of paper and write down "i bought an acan from happy coral for $25" then have the guy sign it or print his name or something to make it valid would that be ok?

im bringing me a pad of paper..lol

Rick

[jimsflies]

As I mentioned if we see a market trend on a particular coral we will revise it in the price list. So yeah, bring your receipt pads.

[nate_newton]

Does preuss count as crazyricks?

[jimsflies]

Does preuss count as crazyricks?

Yes. Both are sponsors here.

[Sir Patrick]

Having fun Jim? Ive been avoiding this thread...lol!

Gotta admit though- so far, much better than last year! And next year will surely be better!

[whitetiger61]

i want to change tanks..am i allowed to do that

Rick

[jolson10450]

i want to change tanks..am i allowed to do that

Rick

you got until feb 28th to do whatever you choose with the tank so if you have another and want to use that instead then use it! let one of us mods know if you do so we can delete your old thread after starting your new one, just be sure to get the valuable information from it before you have us delete it like your coral price lists etc...

[whitetiger61]

ok going to be using some of the corals but not all of them so pricelist will change..i will just add up a new priclist..tanks Justin

Rick

[2pairs]

i want to change tanks..am i allowed to do that

Rick


Is that because their are horses in the house?:):):)

[whitetiger61]

Is that because their are horses in the house?:):):)

Jim

that would be correct..they are latching on to every zoa plug in the tank...lol..but they are so cute..

Rick

[Finding_Nemo]

I so want a cube ...sigh but I apparently need to eat more then I need a tank lol

[nate_newton]

I'm really not liking my CF lighting and want to go to a few LEDs. Before I order them I wanted to check and see if it was allowed to do so because with shipping I'm not sure if it would be modified by the feb tank date.

[jimsflies]

That isn't a problem. The February 28 entry date is to make sure that someone is in the contest long enough to be worthwhile. I think if equipment changes are made, that is fine. It's just something that you should provide updates and photos to in your contest thread.

[nate_newton]

That isn't a problem. The February 28 entry date is to make sure that someone is in the contest long enough to be worthwhile. I think if equipment changes are made, that is fine. It's just something that you should provide updates and photos to in your contest thread.

Great, thank you.

[jolson10450]

Here are some details about the Nano Contest prize from Nano Customs:

The prize will be a complete 10" Universal DIY Fixture, populated with the winners choice of LED arrangements to suit the tank they have. Everything will be pre-assembled by Nano Customs and tested prior to shipping, and the winner will have the choice of acrylic top cover (clear, black, or white). The prize will also include hanging hardware. Approximate value is ~$400 dollars.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/evilc66/DSC_06000005.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/evilc66/DSC_06010004.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/evilc66/DSC_06020003.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/evilc66/DSC_06030002.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/evilc66/DSC_06040001.jpg

was reading this the other day and i didnt see anywhere where it said the amount of LEDs this fixture will have? any idea on how many LEDS will be included in the fixture?

[rosebud161616]

Can we use PIFs in our tanks? If so, are they the PIF price (free with stipulations) or do we add it into the total?

I would like to add my PIF plate to the nano contest. If we need to use a price, I'm going to need some help figuring that one out. I have never seen tiny plates like these for sale!

[evilc66]

was reading this the other day and i didnt see anywhere where it said the amount of LEDs this fixture will have? any idea on how many LEDS will be included in the fixture?

Sorry I didn't catch this earlier.

The fixture is built to order, so you specify the tank that you want it over, and we build you the fixture that will accomodate it. There is no pre set number of LEDs as a result. If you aren't sure of what you would want to use it for, we can set it up with a default 5x5 (25 LED) array that will fit a wide range of systems.

[jolson10450]

Sorry I didn't catch this earlier.

The fixture is built to order, so you specify the tank that you want it over, and we build you the fixture that will accomodate it. There is no pre set number of LEDs as a result. If you aren't sure of what you would want to use it for, we can set it up with a default 5x5 (25 LED) array that will fit a wide range of systems.

great! good to know! if i did end up winning that would actually be perfect because i have been wanting to build a 45g cube (24x24x18) or a 60g cube (24x24x24) tank and i think that might be just enough to power it.

[2pairs]

What is the last day we can add coral for the contest?
And what is the last day of the contest?

Just so we don't add things late and get disqualified.

[rosebud161616]

Can we use PIFs in our tanks? If so, are they the PIF price (free with stipulations) or do we add it into the total?

I would like to add my PIF plate to the nano contest. If we need to use a price, I'm going to need some help figuring that one out. I have never seen tiny plates like these for sale!

Bumping this question

[nate_newton]

Begin Stocking: January 9, 2011
Last Day to Enter: February 26, 2011
Last Day to add Livestock: April 30, 2011
Last Day of Contest: May 28, 2011
Judging Complete: June 19, 2011



What is the last day we can add coral for the contest?
And what is the last day of the contest?

Just so we don't add things late and get disqualified.

[Synergy]

So I'm out of state for the week and wont be back until May 1st. I need to update my contest thread with pictures of all the corals and the price list but wont be able to until May 1st, one day after the deadline. Will this be OK? Nothing will be added to the tank after the deadline, it's all in there already, but my thread wont be updated until a day later.

[jimsflies]

Last day to add livestock is in 2 days. Contestants should post their livestock and budget by 4/30.

[jolson10450]

ok i think i am a little confused on these rules, i thought that the value of the coral was based on what its "retail" value is not what you bought it for? i see some people buying like 3-4 colonies of zoas or sps and they are marked so cheap i thought they counted to their retail not what they paid for them at swaps... any info on clearing this up?

[CalmSeasQuest]

ok i think i am a little confused on these rules, i thought that the value of the coral was based on what its "retail" value is not what you bought it for? i see some people buying like 3-4 colonies of zoas or sps and they are marked so cheap i thought they counted to their retail not what they paid for them at swaps... any info on clearing this up?

The rules state...

Spending Limit: The spending limit on corals is $400. Corals purchased from CR sponsors count half toward the spending limit. For example if you spend $100 from non-sponsors, you can spend another $600 from sponsors and will have spent the $400 limit. You must post a receipt with a picture of the stock to allow for others to see what you have spent. Receipts will be necessary to prove source of purchase for corals that are purchased from sponsors. If you are also participating in the grow out contest, you can put those in your nano and it will count $40 against your spending limit.

The section of the rules that provide estimated retail costs is listed as being for the following purposes...

"The following is a list of prices to help determine value of on hand corals or free corals obtained from other reefers.

I would interpret the above to mean the cost is that which is paid (and documented) whether purchased through a retailer or at a swap (hence the reason receipts are saved.)

I'm sure Jim will chime in with the final answer :)

[Synergy]

I'd say market price unless you get a receipt (I realize this is unlikely). If we find that the price list is inaccurate, we can change the value of things on the price list. This list is from last year and certainly market can change from year to year.


i am thinking signature and first and last printed name if possible, because i could just write the guys name down so to make it valid i say we require both. so if you want the sponsor discount then have them do it people! lol


This idea seems acceptable. This would also hold true for any other swap across the country (should other members from other states join the nano contest) and be at a swap where one of our sponsors was attending.


ok i think i am a little confused on these rules, i thought that the value of the coral was based on what its "retail" value is not what you bought it for? i see some people buying like 3-4 colonies of zoas or sps and they are marked so cheap i thought they counted to their retail not what they paid for them at swaps... any info on clearing this up?

From earlier posts it seems it was agreed that if you got a receipt or equivalent (paper with coral, sellers name, signature and price) from a swap purchase the cost would be what you paid, not the price according to the price list. Waiting to see what Jimsflies says...

[jimsflies]

As I recall...or intended...the price of a coral purchased at a swap from another hobbyist would need to be figured according to the market price list on post #1 of this thread. If the coral was obtained at the swap from a sponsor, you were supposed to get some sort of receipt documenting the price and sponsor which would then only count as half toward your spending limit.

So,Justin is correct...it is based on market value (post #1) unless you purchased it from a store and have a receipt...then that value is used. And if the store is a sponsor only half of the amount spent is counted toward the spending limit.

[jolson10450]

As I recall...or intended...the price of a coral purchased at a swap from another hobbyist would need to be figured according to the market price list on post #1 of this thread. If the coral was obtained at the swap from a sponsor, you were supposed to get some sort of receipt documenting the price and sponsor which would then only count as half toward your spending limit.

So,Justin is correct...it is based on market value (post #1) unless you purchased it from a store and have a receipt...then that value is used. And if the store is a sponsor only half of the amount spent is counted toward the spending limit.

Thanks Jim that is what i thought, private vendors such as swap hobbyists would have to be based on the list then not what you paid for it at the swap. Thanks for clarifying it. the receipt was only intended to show you bought something from a sponsor to make it count as half.

[rosebud161616]

OK I don't think this was ever clarified and from the above posts, it would seem I was not the only one in this boat. Why is it that the rules state that you can only use the price if sold from a vendor and not from hobbiests? I think it's better for the hobby to get frags from hobbyist who have been captively propagating corals in their tank. Instead, you have to buy frags/colonies from vendors who are chop shops (Mr. Coral) to get good prices. Otherwise you have to use the list which is way high and varies from location to location around the US?

I just spent hundreds upon hundreds of dollars stocking my nano tank for this contest. I have plenty of corals in my main tank that I could have used but didn't because the "retail value" listed in this thread is so far off from what I can purchase wild colonies chopped up into tiny little pieces for. So instead, I spent hundreds on new, mostly wild stuff (seems counter-productive) to try to compete with whatever everyone else was doing.

Now... to me at least, it seems the rules are changing. The day after all of the corals and price lists were due. So now it seems that stuff I have added are against these rules. With no time to change what I have added or update the price list, I don't see any choice but to drop out. I'm extremely bitter about this and I can't believe I have put so much time, effort, heart, and money into this contest. If I'm getting any of this wrong, please correct me.

[CalmSeasQuest]

First, let me say I don't have a dog in this race as the purchases I made for the Nano contest all came from CR sponsors/retailers.

In reading through the rules and comments made in the Nano build thread - I believe this does represent a last minute change to the rules everyone has been operating under. I would argue against this change of the rules; namely,


No distinction or separate treatment for purchases made at a Frag swap with documentation were included in the rules. Doing so now past the end-stocking date of the contest unfairly treats those that made purchases from swaps (including from vendors) and could potentially eliminate participants that followed the published rules exactly.

The retail pricing, as published states it is to be used to "help determine value of on hand corals or free corals obtained from other reefers" No reference is made to it's use for any other purpose.

This decision would represent a "slippery slope" with participants having to define what makes a retailer (storefront, business license...) that would likely cause additional conflicts.

I would argue accepting a receipt from the time of of purchase establishes retail value better than a years old static price list - Especially in light of many retailers offering ~$10 Frags. This becomes especially more difficult for distressed corals.

Lastly, I had intended this response as a PM to Jim, but as a result of Rosebuds post and the possibility of her dropping form the contest - I felt a public response to be appropriate. Acknowledging that the outcome could negatively impact multiple contestants at the very last minute of a very time consuming and costly process - I believe this issue should have been handled as a PM rather that public post, especially since the complainant is both a moderator and participant and appears to also made swap purchases that could be argued were below "retail" costs, yet used receipts for contest cost calculations.

If determined this change is desired, I believe it would be more appropriate to put it in place for future contests, not apply retroactively for an almost complete contest.

As I recall...or intended...the price of a coral purchased at a swap from another hobbyist would need to be figured according to the market price list on post #1 of this thread. If the coral was obtained at the swap from a sponsor, you were supposed to get some sort of receipt documenting the price and sponsor which would then only count as half toward your spending limit.

So,Justin is correct...it is based on market value (post #1) unless you purchased it from a store and have a receipt...then that value is used. And if the store is a sponsor only half of the amount spent is counted toward the spending limit.

[jolson10450]

First, let me say I don't have a dog in this race as the purchases I made for the Nano contest all came from CR sponsors/retailers.

In reading through the rules and comments made in the Nano build thread - I believe this does represent a last minute change to the rules everyone has been operating under. I would argue against this change of the rules; namely,


No distinction or separate treatment for purchases made at a Frag swap with documentation were included in the rules. Doing so now past the end-stocking date of the contest unfairly treats those that made purchases from swaps (including from vendors) and could potentially eliminate participants that followed the published rules exactly.

The retail pricing, as published states it is to be used to "help determine value of on hand corals or free corals obtained from other reefers" No reference is made to it's use for any other purpose.

This decision would represent a "slippery slope" with participants having to define what makes a retailer (storefront, business license...) that would likely cause additional conflicts.

I would argue accepting a receipt from the time of of purchase establishes retail value better than a years old static price list - Especially in light of many retailers offering ~$10 Frags. This becomes especially more difficult for distressed corals.

Lastly, I had intended this response as a PM to Jim, but as a result of Rosebuds post and the possibility of her dropping form the contest - I felt a public response to be appropriate. Acknowledging that the outcome could negatively impact multiple contestants at the very last minute of a very time consuming and costly process - I believe this issue should have been handled as a PM rather that public post, especially since the complainant is both a moderator and participant and appears to also made swap purchases that could be argued were below "retail" costs, yet used receipts for contest cost calculations.

If determined this change is desired, I believe it would be more appropriate to put it in place for future contests, not apply retroactively for an almost complete contest.

it is a double edged sword though guys because i could have literally put tons of stuff in my tank but didn't because i properly followed the rules to begin with. if i was able to put them in my tank for the price i paid for things at swaps i would have been able to put at least 25% more stock into my tank in its prime and could of just removed the corals that were showing stress and added new ones from the swaps in the tank for cheap. so while some may think it is hurting them now, it actually hurt others before by because we initially thought we weren't allowed to do that because those were the rules. if anything was unclear how come no one asked to clarify it? that is why i posted my questions in the thread just to be clear on the rules.

I mean i hate to be the bearer of bad news but i feel it was something people overlooked and i did not realize it until just last night otherwise i would of said something sooner. this is why i decided to do an acan tank rather than a higher end z's and p's tank because their retail value was so high i would only get a few polyps in the tank and that is it.

[rosebud161616]

it is a double edged sword though guys because i could have literally put tons of stuff in my tank but didn't because i properly followed the rules to begin with. if i was able to put them in my tank for the price i paid for things at swaps i would have been able to put at least 25% more stock into my tank in its prime and could of just removed the corals that were showing stress and added new ones from the swaps in the tank for cheap. so while some may think it is hurting them now, it actually hurt others before by because we initially thought we weren't allowed to do that because those were the rules. if anything was unclear how come no one asked to clarify it? that is why i posted my questions in the thread just to be clear on the rules.

I mean i hate to be the bearer of bad news but i feel it was something people overlooked and i did not realize it until just last night otherwise i would of said something sooner. this is why i decided to do an acan tank rather than a higher end z's and p's tank because their retail value was so high i would only get a few polyps in the tank and that is it.

I think CalmSeasQuest stated the concerns very eloquently.

In response to your post Jolson, the reason I didn't post questions is because I thought the rules were clear. I went back through the thread and people added corals from members at fragswaps as far back as February. It's very interesting to me that the rules were never questioned in any of the the threads (several people have corals listed from hobbyists purchased at swaps) until the day after the final lists are due. Since the clarification changes the rules that so many seem to have thought meant something else, it seems the rules are being changed after the fact.

I think your comment about following the rules to begin with is very out of place. I thought I was following the rules to the T. You thought you were following the rules to a T. Everyone else thought that they were following the rules. It seems that the fragswap rule was not clearly defined and is causing all of this drama now. I could say the same to you. Since the rule wasn't clearly defined and I thought it meant something else, you didn't follow the rules. How about we just not point fingers at anyone and discuss this civilly? I think we can all agree that the rules were not clearly defined which lead to needing clarification after the fact.

Going back through the threads, it seems that there are only 3 people who would be left in the contest if this rule stands. And besides that it seems the rules are being changed after the fact, it does open the flood gates, as CalmSeasQuest stated, to who is considered a hobbyist and who is a vendor. It really is a slippery slope.

[jimsflies]

My concern with using a price paid for from another hobbyist is there is no way to really show proof of purchase. Further what if you are given corals from a friend...do we count those as $0. I can probably fill a nano tank with free corals from friends...but it wouldn't be fair to other's in the competition with less connections.

So that's where I was at when making the "rule"...or I guess it was more of a clarification to the rules after the contest started and the question was asked.

With that said, are the corals in question from swaps or from buying and selling threads? We may be able accept a link to a deal thread...or a link to fragswapper...or something showing what was paid.

For the corals you got at a swap, did you get a receipt from the hobbyist?

The general price list can also be tweaked if necessary. If you have a specific item or proposal for changes, send them to me via pm. From there, I will do some research and figure out whether a change is warranted.

Certainly the intent here is not to have anyone eliminated from the contest or get upset and quit. My goal is and has been to make the contest fair and equal for all involved. This is supposed to be fun...

[rosebud161616]

My concern with using a price paid for from another hobbyist is there is no way to really show proof of purchase. Further what if you are given corals from a friend...do we count those as $0. I can probably fill a nano tank with free corals from friends...but it wouldn't be fair to other's in the competition with less connections.

So that's where I was at when making the "rule"...or I guess it was more of a clarification to the rules after the contest started and the question was asked.

With that said, are the corals in question from swaps or from buying and selling threads? We may be able accept a link to a deal thread...or a link to fragswapper...or something showing what was paid.

For the corals you got at a swap, did you get a receipt from the hobbyist?

The general price list can also be tweaked if necessary. If you have a specific item or proposal for changes, send them to me via pm. From there, I will do some research and figure out whether a change is warranted.

Certainly the intent here is not to have anyone eliminated from the contest or get upset and quit. My goal is and has been to make the contest fair and equal for all involved. This is supposed to be fun...

In my case I did get a written receipt from all of the hobbyists and/or vendors that I purchased from. I thought that this was in line with the rule that was posted. If need be, I can take a screen shot of what I purchased from fragswapper. Posting links is about impossible with the way that fragswapper works, but as long as no hobbyists have removed the posts after the swaps (which some do) then it is available. If we had known before hand, then screenshots could have been taken leading up to the swap. Also, anyone can go to fragswapper, and as long as the listings are still posted, they can verify what was listed.

[jimsflies]

It seems reasonable to me. I think the key here is, if the price you have listed sounds completely out of line, then you'd need documentation to support it.

[Sir Patrick]

I have to side w/ rosebud and Toms interpretations of the rules. That is how I took them also.

Jolson- this contest isnt about spending right up to the spending limit- its about what you do with your tank and corals, not how many you can cram into a small tank. If it is about racing right up to the limit, I will think twice about entering next year, because I dont think I would drop more than $100 into mine. If that is going to effect my chances of winning, then why try?

As the rules are stated- I dont see a distinction from hobbiests/sponcers/vendors at swaps- and all that have done this have saved receipts/documentation of their purchases.

Thought we had all the loop holes covered this year.....:doh:

[jolson10450]

sorry if i offended you rosebud about the "following the rules" quote, yeah i can understand how we both thought that way so i used the wrong words there. for the sake of being so late in the contest i agree with what jim said, if you can provide proof of what you paid for the coral either screen shot or receipt i think that would be acceptable for this contest because you are right it is over with as far as adding/removing things. personally i think that is how it should be in the first place but like jim said if i get a bunch of frags from my buddy for free then i am at $0 on my limit and others will not be. this will flatten out the rules good for the next contest though.

and chris i know it is not a race to the limit my point is i would rather stock a tank to the max and get a full tank of coral rather than just a few pieces and seeing some bad rock (in my case because i used base rock for my aquascape because the tank is so small)

[jimsflies]

Just to clarify further...if you do your accounting and find you have over spent, you are still allowed to remove corals from you tank. The April 30 was the deadline for adding new corals. The reason for this deadline is that you need to prove you can keep the corals in your system alive and not be able to wait until the night before the contest ends and jam it full of corals that aren't appropriate for a nano...for example, jamming a nano full of NPS corals the day before the contest ends and being eligible to win, when it is unlikely those corals would survive.

If you find after you did your accounting that you are over, just note that on your stock list that it was removed due to being over budget. There will be no deductions for doing this. Now if stock dies between now and then, in your nano it will be taken into considered in judging.

[Synergy]

Just to clarify further...if you do your accounting and find you have over spent, you are still allowed to remove corals from you tank. The April 30 was the deadline for adding new corals. The reason for this deadline is that you need to prove you can keep the corals in your system alive and not be able to wait until the night before the contest ends and jam it full of corals that aren't appropriate for a nano...for example, jamming a nano full of NPS corals the day before the contest ends and being eligible to win, when it is unlikely those corals would survive.

If you find after you did your accounting that you are over, just note that on your stock list that it was removed due to being over budget. There will be no deductions for doing this. Now if stock dies between now and then, in your nano it will be taken into considered in judging.

What if we are under budget but want to remove some pieces because we don't have enough room, will that be allowed also? I assume it will be but just making sure.

[jimsflies]

Yes, no problem with that. Again, now we are into documentation mode. If something is taken from your tank, you should post why (over budget, no room, think it's ugly :eek , dead, dying, whatever...)




Regarding the market price discussion....here is the key:

Our market list is meant as a guide. Put down the price you paid. As long as it is reasonable then no one should have a problem with it. But clearly if you scored a sweet deal, then it needs to be counted at closer to the market price. As an example, your buddy gives you 4 polyps of ppes. Those can't count as $0. They'd need to be listed closer to the market price (what most reefers would expect to pay for a similar frag). Similarly, if you buy a 100 polyp rock of eagle eyes for $100...I don't expect you to count those on a per polyp basis at $5 each. Of course when you buy things in different sizes you are going to pay different amounts...there is no way I can make a price list that accounts for everything.

[Synergy]

Yes, no problem with that. Again, now we are into documentation mode. If something is taken from your tank, you should post why (over budget, no room, think it's ugly :eek , dead, dying, whatever...)

Thanks for the confirmation! Makes sense, will make sure to document if I remove anything.

[jimsflies]

Additional clarification...


"Free" Corals part of a Larger Purchase
Free corals that came as part of a package livestock purchase where all of the corals purchased are in your contest nano will count as $0...again the key is that all the corals had to go into your contest nano.

However if part of the package did not go into your contest tank, then a value will need to be assessed on those.

An example of this is Mr. Coral's sales where after every "X" corals, you can pick a free one.

[jimsflies]

With all the excitement around here the past couple days we have reached the end of the Nano Contest.

Based on my scan of the latest posts in the contest threads, it looks like these members are still in the contest:

CalmSeasQuest
Synergy
Rosebud161616
Kalmed

These additional members seemed to be in the contest as of 5/1...but have not submitted any updates to your contest thread in the past month.
2pairs
nate newton
BK's Reef
jolson10450

So unless I missed someone, the members that are under consideration are:

CalmSeasQuest
Synergy
Rosebud161616
Kalmed

Staff will be looking at these member's threads to be sure that they complied with contest rules. Once we have completed our evaluation, I will post a poll to this thread and the membership will have an opportunity to vote for the tank they feel should win the nano contest.