My new Auto Top-off System The DATO

[dakar]

Before I head down to my little shop and put this together I figured I'd share my new top off design. Features a new toy I found, the Aqualift water pump (3.5 gph and burns only 3 watts of power). I wanted a reliable, but simpler design than using float switches, relays, wall warts, and most of all no messing with fitting hoses to a powerhead that likely would have come from the junk bin (waiting to fail). Additionally no siphons worry about maintaining or breaking for gravity fed systems, and no electricity involved at the sump side.

Design is simple, a 24 gallon reservoir, an AquaLift pump, some 1/4 tubing, and a 1/4' JG Tee fitting (John Guest) and a float valve. How it "should" work, the pump runs continually, drawing water from the reservoir (red line) and pushes it downhill ( ~4" drop) on the output towards the Tee and float valve, if the valve is open water will take the path of least resistance and goes to the sump, if the float valve is closed water will take the higher resistance path back to the reservoir (yellow line).

Not sure it could get any simpler. I've not seen a system quite like this, so I'll claim patent for now and call it the DATO :razz:

[dakar]

Parts List:

Aqualift pump: $10 (F&S)
1/4" Tubing: $2
JG 1/4 Tee - $5
Float Valve: $15
Reservoir: Rubbermaid Tub

Optional: For topping off the reservoir as needed without contant on/off of RO/DI unit.
Additional Float Valve in reservoir
JG ball valve

[dakar]

I set the flot valve on a piece of 1/4" acrylic with a 90 degree bend that sits under my skimmer to hold it in place. Drew half a gallon of water from the sump to test it, and within a few minutes the sump was right back to to the level set by the float valve... Going to let her run in this fashion for a while before drilling the sump wall to permanently mount the float valve.

Tested and working perfectly. At this point I'll call it a sucessful DIY!

The float valves have some level of adjustment for the floats height so it's quite versatile.

Something to be said for simplistic designs, no snails or anything in the sump to worry about them getting into the float valve to make it stick open, but if it does the reservoir would run dry before it can overflow the sump :)

Any and all comments/suggestions/improvements will be appreciated.

[dakar]

I marked the sump and the level has remained perfectly constant for over 72 hours now... Think it actually works!

On a side note holding the water level the same with no real fluctions in salinity has affected my skimmer, skimmate production has slowed way down as far as quantity goes, it was a medium green tea, but what it is pulling now is horiffically brown and quite.... ummmm... aromatic. The good, make you gag kind of stuff! Almost too dry though, almost daily cleanings are needed.

[Woden]

CONGRATS!! I like it. But where did you get the supplies (namely the float valve), I went to Home Depot and they tried to get me to use a replacement ball-cock valve (the one that fills the tank of a toilet!??!! LOL). I have yet to check my local hardware but just thought I'd ask. The toilet idea would work in theory but it would have to fill the sump from the bottom (LOL) and thatobviously takes away from the simplicity of your design.

[Woden]

OOPS! Sorry about the "censered" thing there in the name of the vavle...but thats really the name.

[dakar]

I got the float vlave from either Fosters&Smith or Marine Depot....they run about $15 or so. You will not find float valves or suitable float switches at any local hardware stores... I've been through them all pretty thoroughly.

They are one of the the little things I like to tack onto orders to boost the total cost of orders for free shipping or whatever... odds and ends tupe stuff, great to have around when you need them for a project.

The problem with the ballcock valves for toilet use is they often have metal parts, copper or brass to resist corosion, but not stuff you want in your reef. A lot of the newer stuff hitting the shelves is ABS, but not all of it.

But definately simpler is better, but an added benefit I'm finding with this design is the return loop keeps the water moving in the reservoir, not just sitting there.

[dakar]

hahahaha yeah the word censor is on and obviously working.... some of it I have set for the 'context' but mostly it just matches the words and replaces them with censored or something humorous. No foul.

[Darth Ocellaris]

Nice design! Can kalkwasser be used since you are circulating the resevoir? Seems to me that would stir up the paste that settles. I'm looking for a top-off solution and have considered using kalkwasser but it's not in stone yet :D

[Iconz]

Hmm, dakar, would this work if i had to pump the water up about a 3' head? On my 20g setup, I'm not gonna have a sump. So, I'm tryin to figure out EXACTLY how I wanna do my ATO. I have several ideas pending...

Thanks,
JD

[dakar]

You would have to replace the aqualifter pump with something capable of the taller head pressure... The AL is only rated for 13" of head, restricting a smaller powerhead might do the trick.... something like a maxi-jet 600 would likely handle 4' head especially if you choke it down to 1/4" tubing, that would slow down the velocity.

[Reptoreef]

That should work just fine for dosing kalk as long as you can reasonably seal the kalk reservoir for elimination of as much atmospheric co2 as possible... TERRIFIC DESIGN!!!

[Iconz]

Dave: Thanks! So, will a MJ work if not submersed? IE: Could I attach a feeder line to it?

Repto: You may not be talkin to me, but I don't plan on using it to dose with. Just as an ATO.

[dakar]

If you are going to use a MJ, why not submerse it? If not submersed, you will find you have continually prime it, and the input/output portion does not seal to the impeller body perfectly, so it will leak. Sealing it is an option I guess, but if you seal it properly with something like weld-on you'll never be able to take it apart again to clean it or anything. (silicone has a harder time bonding to PVC/plastic)

MJ's are built pretty solidly, the only way I've had one fail was running it out of the water for a month or so, it was pumping water (recirculating for a skimmer), but it was not covered with water and had no place to dissapate heat, air is a lousy conductor this way. Eventually it just burned up and quit.

The simplistic design was my goal in the whole project.... it works as well or better than I had originally anticipated.

[Iconz]

cool. My thought in using it extenally was just that the resivoir container I had planned to use an have already bought is a 5gal water cooler tank (the big, blue bottles)...

My other thought is to do a pressure-fed ATO... This consists pretty much of an air-pump that will handle backpressure, the resivoir, and a float switch setup.

Basically the switch turns on the airpump which pumps air into the sealed resivoir via an airline that doesn't touch the water level. You have another line that goes from the bottom of the resivoir to your tank. So when the pressure in the resivoir builds, it pushes water up into the display, "flipping" the float switch, turning off the pump, stopping water flow.

[dakar]

The pressure setup could work well... the first caveat the comes to mind is the possibility of a siphon forming.

Nothing wrong with float switches, just do yourself a favor and use two in series, so they both have to be closed before turning on the relay to your pump... All it takes is for one lil' baby snail or something to get in the float switch and you'll have wet carpet, which we all know can lead to ISS.
(Irritated Spouse Syndrome)

[hummer]

what about using a water crock despener with a float it would use
0 watts and to refill all you would have to do is change the 5 gal bottle this is what im doing for evaporation..the only thing i dont know is ...

where do i put the floatin the sump ?

and could you use window screan (plastic or nilon) as a block around the float swictch to prevent......ISS. lol lol

ps.... did you happen to read the pm. i sent you yet just curiouse(sp) im fishing for help..

[Iconz]

"The pressure setup could work well... the first caveat the comes to mind is the possibility of a siphon forming."

Well, if I were to assure that the water line does not touch the display water column, would there still be a risk of a siphon?... I guess its still possible that it would syphon from the resivoir to the display, eh?

[lamajo25]

Okay I have a question. This may be one of those questions that has been answered but I need something like this. I like your design. The return line to keep the water moving is great. Now here's the question.

Do you fill the top off with fresh water or salt water?

I've noticed that as the water evaporates, if I add about a gallon of fresh water my SG stays the same. If I add salt water it raises my SG. So what's the deal. The reason I need this is I'm adding about a gallon of water a Day. Yeah Day.

[Iconz]

the water evaporates, the salt does not. So, basically, you adding ro/di "fresh" water, you keep your sg the same. Do not top off w/ SW. Your SG will jump through the roof if you top off w/ SW.

[lamajo25]

Thanks a bunch. Like I said I've been topping off with fresh and it's staying the right about the same. I wasn't sure thought and was concerned if I was doing the right thing.

[Iconz]

NP, always better to be safe than sorry. I asked the same question about 3 weeks ago. :)

[melev]

I really like your design. That's definitely different. I too use the Aqua Lifter, and I have a maximum of 20g of RO/DI water available. It just runs when the float switch activates it.

[at]

Dakar, I have been using the DATO for 3 weeks now and it works perfectly. Thanks for the great design,I don't know if you can patent it or not.

[dakar]

Glad to hear it's working well for you.... there is really something to be said for simplicity... I've had the 180g tank wet now for almost 8 weeks... cycled and all of our fish (minus seahorses) have been relocated and they are quite happy again with all thier room.... my original DATO will be put back into play as soon as I get the refuge added on, I forgot what a PITA it is topping off a tank by hand.