Lights off to kill algae?

[Rook]

I have a lot of live rock in my 90 reef and most of it is covered on every inch with very short algae. I have it under control such that it's not growing, but I'd like to get rid of it. I just (finally) have a skimmer on board and working and a carbon/gfo reactor, so I'm confident in controlling nutrients going forward. Someone suggested to me that I should turn the lights off for two days, kill the algae, blow the rocks clean, turn lights back on. The idea appears sound; what say you??

[Sir Patrick]

I say it takes much longer than a couple days, light out, to stop algea from growing- even with your nutrient export system under control. It can put a small dent in the algea, but it will come back.

How long has the rock been covered in algea? How long has it been in the system? There are ways to make algea covered, and nutrient packed rock good again, but takes time.

Looking forward to helping out! Sounds like you are already on the right track. Would like to see your tank algea free eventually. Lets hear more on the system, and go from there.

[Rook]

All of the rock is at least 5'years old, much will be 10+ years. Algae has been dense for the last 2 years.

[marc49127]

My rocks were covered with algae for a while and I tryed the three day blackout. I even wrapped my tank with paper to make sure that no light reached the tank. All it did was stunt the growth of the algae for about three days. Then I bought a urchin and started using algafix. After about three weeks my aglae is about 95% gone and much more enjoyable.

[Sir Patrick]

I got some rock from a freind of mine, a while back. Rock was 10 years old, in a higher nutrient tank. Rock was pretty loaded with nutrients by the time I got it, and was growing all kinds of algea......

Heres a thread that covers alot of what I did, but not all. I will update the thread soon. I will give ya some time to absorb all that is in it, and then post the outcome.


http://www.captivereefs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5885&highlight=live+rock

Sounds like cooking the rock, or selling it off and replacing it, are your best bet- depending on what you are able to do easiest. Just follow the direction perfectly, unlike I did...if you plan on cooking it.

[Rook]

I'm not sure I'm up for cooking it, which requires takin apart the tank not to mention several coral are growing on he rock. I'm definitely not buying new. It's not that bad to go to extreme measures IMO. I'd rather manually scrub the rock, at least at this point.

[jimsflies]

What have you done since a couple weeks ago to get things under control?

[skuttduck]

When I had my hair algae outbreak in the beginning I noticed that if I took some rocks put them into the sump for a week or so, once they were brought back into the main tank they didn't grow hair algae again.

[spartyblaze]

My experience isn't all that vast but putting live rock in the oven scares the crap out of me.

I've scrubbed a few pieces to pretty good success - Hate disturbing the tank, but it always seems to go back together one place or another.

[jolson10450]

get some emerald crabs they should nom nom it all!

[Rook]

Jim, I don't really have an out of control problem, my water test always show Jill or very low nitrates and phosphates. Of course it's likely to be in part due to the growth of hair algae. The issue is that my liverock is covered with hair algae in any place that does not have coral. It's short, but I'd prefer it to be gone.

So, in order to eliminate any nutrients for algae to grow, I just added an AquaC EV-120 skimmer and a BRS carbon/gfo reactor and a filter sock; if I keep up on 10 gallon weekly water changes, change the filter sock weekly and keep up on the skimmer and carbon, the algae should be choked off. Now, I want to clean off the live rock and someone told me that the lights off method would help with that.

Here is a pic

http://184.72.239.143/mu/4cce2e4d-be52-fb1f.jpg

http://184.72.239.143/mu/4cce2e4d-be72-6c09.jpg

[Sir Patrick]

I would go ahead and scrub it then. Sounds like your doing everything you need to do to keep the algea from getting any worse.

I would also beef up on the cleanup crew, if you are laking. They will really help the algea not to come back. How long of a photoperiod are you running and how old and type are your lights?

[MizTanks]

Having had a major HA issue and researching the cause first (most important) it is this remedy I found to work best. It does take time though.
Starve it out! Algae needs nutrients and light to live. Nutrients come from leaching LR-uneaten food and the algae it self, just naming a few here.
Lower the amount and # of times you feed and only enough that your fish will eat. The type of food is also important. The food that goes uneaten, rots and feeds the algae. Next lower the amount of time your lights are on to 5-6 hrs a day for about 6 weeks. Next an absorbent works well in removing excess nutrients also.
Chemipure Elite, Purigen are the ones I've used and are great.
Hope this helps .)


There is nothing like being a REEFER!

[Rook]

Lights are T5's I think it's a 10 hour photo period; I cannot remember the age, 6-8 mths I think. Definitely need to beef up on cleaner crew; places around here need to sell trochus, they are he best snail. Planning on an tuxedo urchin, emeralds, and a serpent star to clean up uneating food, may need more nassarius too.

[MizTanks]

Do you have bristle worms in your tank? If not I personally suggest you get some. I've found them to be the best detritus eaters ever. I personally have around 20+ in my 8g. They're harmless to fish and corals but will give a good sting if you should come into contact with one.
If it's HA your dealing with there's really not much you can do as far as a cuc, yet others have had great luck in this area. I have heard that a lawnmower blenny will eat it sometimes.
I've tried an blue spot sea hare, it died. Got it's self stuck in a hole. I tried a tuxedo urchin, it didn't touch it as well. I tried hermits blue and red legged, snails of all kinds. Nothing works except the before mentioned.

[Sir Patrick]

Cutting back on the lights to 7 or 8 hours wont hurt, if you continue to see issues after the rock scrubbing.

No harm will come from a couple day lights out, after the rock scrubbing either- If ya would like to give it a shot. I have done it many times for cyno/diatom issues. Ive gone 3 days without ever an issue.

[jimsflies]

If you have the phosphates under control, the algae will go away on its own. Keep adding phosphate remover until the algae is gone. Testing isn't necessarily going to tell you whether you have the phosphates under control, as you mentioned the algae is still there and is therefore utilizing the excess phosphate.

[Sir Patrick]

Sounds like the algea is growing only on the rock. Bet its growing on the bound PO4 in the rock. Might take a while....hope I am wrong though!

[Rook]

Well, only on the rocks, and quite well in the fuge where I have a nice "hair algae scrubber" ;)

I've considered the biopellets too; but I need to better understand how they work when you have a large DSB and a lot of liverock.

[Rook]

I decided to try the lights out method, so yesterday I turned the lights off and covered the tank. Tuesday or Wednesday I'll open it back up, scrub the rocks and do a good water change. I'm also going to slowly reacclimate the lights. We will see how it goes.

[jolson10450]

like i said before get an emerald crab =) they eat that stuff like its cake!

[Rook]

I had an emerald crab in there, I've not seen him in a while but its not uncommon to randomly see him after months of no shows. I also have a seahare that I just saw yesterday. Oddly, the seahare travel right across several nice patches of hair algae and keep on going. That is when I decided to attempt the lights out. On Tues or Weds I'll scrub the rock and this weekend I'll pick up some more cleaners; and keep the filtration going strong. If it does not work, I'll consider taking some rock out to clean it.

[MUCHO REEF]

I have a lot of live rock in my 90 reef and most of it is covered on every inch with very short algae. I have it under control such that it's not growing, but I'd like to get rid of it. I just (finally) have a skimmer on board and working and a carbon/gfo reactor, so I'm confident in controlling nutrients going forward. Someone suggested to me that I should turn the lights off for two days, kill the algae, blow the rocks clean, turn lights back on. The idea appears sound; what say you??

Hello, wow, sorry to hear this. Turning the lights off is only a bandaid of a cure. I think you have to get to the root cause of the problem. I have a very long reply I posted on another board. Too long to post here, so I will PM you the link. It has worked for all who have tried it. Good luck.

Mucho Reef

[whitetiger61]

Mucho

can you pm methat link also

thanks

Rick

[Rook]

Thanks for the tips and suggestions.

Thus far I have; added an AquaC 120 Skimmer; added a BRS carbon/GFO reactor (was using both passively in the sump); started using filter socks and changing them once or twice per week; 10 gallon weekly water changes (from sporatic before); added snails, emeralds, tux urchin; took a few rocks out that have no corals and dipped them in saltwater and scrubbed them; scrubbed the rest of the rock in tank with a brush and did a large water change; and before the scrub I had a 3 day dark period and I've reduced my photo period on the lights (T5's) from 11 hours to 7 hours per day.

The HA is not really growing, never really got too long, but it stays short (the Tang may be helping this) and covers all of the rocks where ever there is no coral. Oddly, it is most abundant on the undersides where there is very little direct light. It looks nearly like stains of dirt and wipes off pretty easy, although the stuff more in the light is green.

My future goals are: Get my calcium, Alk, Mag up to ensure high coral and coraline growth rates; continue to scrub rocks and water change, and keep maintainance on the skimmer, reactor, filter socks.

[MUCHO REEF]

Will do

[jimsflies]

Mucho just do a c&p. :)

[MUCHO REEF]

Mucho just do a c&p. :)


OK, but it's really long. Was written long ago on another reef board so I C & P'd it as you requested. Hope it helps.



"Hello, what kind of algae is it?

Have you checked your phosphate levels?

How old are your lights?

You should purchase an Algae Blenny, I keep one in my tank.

Do you have a clean up crew? if not, I'd purchase an adequate amount based on your tank size.

I would also watch the photoperiod, decrease it or run a couple black out days once you have it under control.

I would be proactive in finding out the root cause of the algae bloom though.

Are you using tap water or R/O ? Tap should never be used, some will differ, but I say no no.

I would consider a compatible fish based on the types of corals you have which will graze as well.

I remember hearing recently that there is an article currently in one of the coral mags where someone used a ratio mixture of peroxide to kill algae. If I heard wrong, I stand corrected, but I remember glancing over the post a week ago someone. I will try to find it to share.

Freshwater or coral dip that I'm aware of will not kill the algae, but knowing what type of algae it is, I can give you a more definitive way to combat it.

Are you over feeding?

What is the temp of your tank?

Trying to think of other options, maybe someone else can weigh in to help you.

Good luck, I hope this helps and an update would be great. Hope you get a handle on it.

Mucho Reef "




Follow up to her first reply below.




"koll12, we have all experienced what you are going through and this is beatable. Reefing is like the life we live, we learn from our mistakes as well as our accomplishments. If you give up now, you've allowed reefing to beat you. I was heading out for a morning run, but came back to type this lengthy reply to help you. I say you can save that rock and your tank, so what-ah-say mate, are we going to do this or not? What you have is an abundance of macro ( Nuisance ) algae. You can do this girlfriend.

Here's what I want you to do Laura.

1. Prepare a well aerated 20 % water change with R/O water only. Aerate for 24 hours and match the temp and salinity exactly of your tank before adding it and yes, even matching the PH. You don't want to cause and issue while trying to correct another. Not doing so can possibly shock your system while doing a simple water change. Do another water change in 7 days the exact same way. It won't hurt your system if you do it right, trust me. This and what's written below worked for me many years ago.

2. Turn off your lights for 48 hours.

3. Check to make sure the bulbs are good as old bulbs can sometimes contribute to the algae bloom.

4. Check and double check your nitrates and phosphates with a very good test kit then double check them with a friend or LFS test kits of a different brand. Even slightly elevated levels of Nitrates will cause reduce calcification and can alter PH and Alk levels.

Phosphates can get into your water column via food sources, source water and some additives. Be proactive in making sure these are not a root cause. If feeding with frozen foods, be sure to thaw first in a cup of tank water, then strain/drain off all the water, then add just enough without over feeding to your tank. This liquid is often nutrient rich and you don't want it in your tank. You must use some phosphate removal media. I haven't use it in years so maybe someone can suggest a brand and type.

5. If you have a protein skimmer, then crank it up as it is the most natural and effective means of nutrient export which is what you need right now. If you think about the frothy foam from the ocean, which is nothing more than what your skimmer is doing, is a natural means of nutrient export. So using the skimmer right now is a must I think and empty the cup daily and clean it with warm water and a dedicated tooth brush. The down side is that you will be removing food for your filter feeding inverts, but there is adequate amounts that you won't starve them and your greater concern I think is knocking down the algae.


6. Check your heater, make sure it is set accurately, no higher than 80, I prefer 79 degrees. But for this issue, and according to A. Calfo, if you slowly lower your temp to 77 degrees and raise your PH to 8.5, this also will help control the outbreak. But make these adjustments carefully and slowly and it does work. Once the issue is resolved, slowly return these readings to your normal levels. You aren't going to solve this issue overnight but if you start today, you can slowly turn this around.

7. High silicates can and will also contribute to algae blooms which is why I'm against tap water usage for reef tanks as it is loaded with silicates.

8. Though polyps thrive in nutrient rich water, excessive nutrients is the line that's hard not to cross without remaining proactive. If you have any current mechanical filters, they must be cleaned and rinsed frequently as they will also accumulate nutrient rich gunk which will contribute to your problem. Even skimmers should be cleaned including the collection cups to prevent re-entry of what you have removed already. You can try using poly pads/filters, but again, you have to rinse and keep them clean.

9. A clean up crew is essential my friend. Natural predation via fish and inverts does the work for you 24/7. They will consume uneaten food, control algae and help with detritus buildup and they work for free. Pods, slugs, snails, limpets, chitons, crabs, urchins will all help, but all aren't needed.

10. Current, this is so vital and often over looked. Current feeds and exports waste, detritus, sediment etc. Insufficient current has been shown to contribute to cyano growth in stagnant areas of a reef tank. I even make it a habit once a month to take a power head and blow off my entire reef. Try it, you will be amazed at all the junk that is dislodged. It can then be removed via filters in an overflow or sump filters. I prefer and recommend current which hits most areas of your tank left and right.

11. Carbon is a must, run a high grade granulated activated carbon and only enough based on the size of your tank. It is great in the removal of organics in your system. You can use it in a media bag but be sure to keep the bag cleaned and rinsed. Rinse the bag weekly and discard/replace carbon every 2 or 3 weeks.

13 Choose an algae eating fish, ( a herbivores for the algae) are natural predators and will also help. The most popular are surgeon fish with are natural grazers and will mow the lawn for you like you won't believe. Algae Blennies are also great to have and watch.

14. Using a phosphate removal pad or media will work well also. There's much debate over whether to use Ferric hydroxide based or aluminum oxide based pads or media. You will have to decide which is best or maybe someone else can weigh in since I haven't used it in many years.

15. Manual removal of the algae and scrub with a tooth brush or wired brush.

16. If you have a fug, using chaetomorpha etc for nutrient export will also help.


I hope this helps, now go get'em tiger.


Mucho Reef




...end of C & P



Hopefully something here will help. Good Luck.

[MUCHO REEF]

I always keep reference material on hand in case I need it. One of the books I keep close and I highly recommend to every reefer is "Algae, A Problem Solver Guide, by Julian Sprung". It not only chronicles. but it also gives specific ID for a host of algaes both good and bad. It details the biology of alage and how to combat it and keep it at bay. This is an inexpensive piece of literature that is very easy to read and is only 73 pages long with tons of pictures and recommendations. It's just better to be proactive than reactive when issues arise.


Mucho Reef