Leave a Penny - Take a Coral

[CalmSeasQuest]

Jim's gesture of giving starter corals free to those new to reefing, coupled with the spirited discussion on coral naming and the disproportionate impact on those new to the hobby got me thinking... How about an adaptation on the "Leave a Penny, Need a penny, Take a Penny" concept.

We all have items that grown very well (or for whatever reason) have become of lesser value/interest in our tanks that others (especially those new to reefing) might love to have. It would be relatively simple to have a tank at the swap where people brought "donations", and if interested - could in exchange take a piece that they might like. Rather like a "Coral Repository".

Everyone could participate in the leave/take concept with those new to reefing (probably have to define that) would be invited to take without leaving. If successful, a permanent tank could be established and maintained by a club or volunteers enabling access year round.

A simple in/out log could be maintained and a list of donors and recipients posted in CR, allowing those receiving to say thanks, recognize the donors and show their successes with there new addition(s). It would also recognize those that contribute (or list the donations as anonymous if so desired.)

The concept could also potentially apply to equipment (donate rather than the hassle of trying to sell.)

Obviously there would be many details to work out as we wouldn't want a tank solely comprised of dozens of pieces of Kenya tree (not that there's anything wrong with keeping Kenya Tree :big_grin:) but It seems like a great way to welcome those to the hobby at little or no cost and gives all of us an opportunity to give back to the hobby we love so much without any money changing hands. Vendors would also hopefully participate with both livestock and/or equipment.

Thoughts, comments?

[cg5071]

Sounds like a sweet idea to me. I am way up here in the cold north though :) I have been waiting for someone who was to open a reef club/site for up here but I dont think that will happen now. I will probably end up starting it myself and hope it grows.

[MUCHO REEF]

Great idea, giving and giving back is great. But one small caveat to this I would add. Coral wise, you're gonna get a lot of dull coral donations. As long as what's donated is viable and with color, sure, I think it is a great idea. Logistics and who will retain the livestock until picked up would have to be worked out of course to prevent any possible differences in who gets, owns, keeps and gets first shot. I have items to donate, please advise when and where.

Mucho

[steve&mari]

Sounds really cool its gettin it worked out n all but the tank could be at every swap so if they cannt get to one they may to the next. Also if they were to far from where its maintained they can plan for a swap closer to em. Sounds sweet to try I already jumped in on Jims freebie thread to add alil be very glad to add to this. Good luck
Steve

[CalmSeasQuest]

Sounds like a sweet idea to me. I am way up here in the cold north though :) I have been waiting for someone who was to open a reef club/site for up here but I dont think that will happen now. I will probably end up starting it myself and hope it grows.

Who knows - If the concept was successful, monetary donations from both individuals and vendors might allow for some limited shipping allowing those from anywhere to participate.

How about this as an example - Sellers of the big $$$ named Frags might make small contributions to the fund (once their acquisition costs were recovered) - Rather like a coral version of Carbon Credits (that's for you Mucho ;)) All voluntary of course, but once again an opportunity for those that care about the hobby to give a little back.


The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. ...George Bernard Shaw

[CalmSeasQuest]

Great idea, giving and giving back is great. But one small caveat to this I would add. Coral wise, you're gonna get a lot of dull coral donations. As long as what's donated is viable and with color, sure, I think it is a great idea. Logistics and who will retain the livestock until picked up would have to be worked out of course to prevent any possible differences in who gets, owns, keeps and gets first shot. I have items to donate, please advise when and where.

Mucho
As with anything new, there will be lots of details to iron out - including the concern about "dull" corals. I happen to be an eternal optimist. Much like the individual that drops a Krugerrand in a Salvation Army kettle each year - I'll bet there are many among us that would step up and consistently donate nicer corals.

[MUCHO REEF]

Then I'd say 2 :thumbsup:

[jolson10450]

i am down, i got some freebies i could throw in!

something we could do at the A2 reef club is instead of (future) charging members we could do the coral thing mentioned and the dues would be every 6 months you got to donate a piece of coral worth $20 to the "pool" tank for new members or to help support propagation etc.... so you would do this 2 times per year and in return 1 time per year you are allowed to take one piece out. pretty much a coral exchange that will always grow because you got to add 2 pieces and only take out 1, it would help build up variety in all of your tanks etc... just an idea.

[sinistervato]

I think this sounds like a great idea. I know from personal experience when we were first starting out we were given some free stuff to get started. I would be willing to donate some frags. I have a couple of big rocks with some nice zoas growing all over them that i could frag off. Just let me know.

[MizTanks]

Wonderful idea! Some advice though from a newb. I too was given freebees when I first started, mostly zoas/palys but I was not informed as to how invasive the palys could be. I was given some green implosions :( almost a year ago. They totally took over one of my largest pieces of LR.
http://184.72.239.143/mu/639cfcc8-e722-98b6.jpg

Not a good thing. They also emit a mild sting so anything near them had to be moved. Short of getting rid of the entire rock, I started culling them back 3-4 months ago. Although I've managed to rid my tank of most of them I'm still finding them popping up all over the tank.
So please when handing out freebees (again an awesome idea) inform the newb of the general habits of said corals. Like how big and invasive they can become.

Sorry for the rant but if someone would have only told me....

[jimsflies]

I had given thought to a "Take it Or Leave it Table" for equipment and dry goods for the Lansing swap. I have a bunch of odds and ends, that I would like to clear out. They would be of use to someone and rather than sending them to the landfill or putting a bunch of effort selling and meeting up, I was going to do the table and invite others to do the same. Unfortunately, I got a little busy and just didn't have the extra time to put into the project for the swap this Sunday.

I normally get a table at the various swaps around the state. The CR table could be the Take It or Leave It table at those other swaps. My only concern though with volunteering is I don't want to be taking more home that no one picked up than I came with. My goal is to help other reefers AND clear stuff out. So hopefully, we could work through that (likely) problem.

[CalmSeasQuest]

Thanks for the donation offers - but we'll first need to focus on working out all the details.

Keep the ideas coming. I'll arrange a webinar or conference call after the swap so anyone/everyone interested can participate and discuss how to make this a reality.

To get things started - here are a few talking points,


Define Newby and the preferential treatment to be provided.
Who picks/when and how determined (must be objective and transparent)
Keeping track and reporting transactions
Should any type of minimum (value?) apply to prospective donations
How/who maintains the tank(s), costs, equipment
Online component - Self post donations and potentially track/order recipients through online forum (i.e. raffle function)
Potentially decentralize - Donor houses until picked up directly during non-swap times. (potentially the easiest/fastest way to get this going quickly.)
Logistical concerns including accounting, transparency, tax issues/Non-profit status

Remember, the primary goal of this is to give back to the hobby and it's community (especially those new to reef keeping.)

[jimsflies]

I don't think we have to restrict it to newbs. I think the spirit of helping each other out is what counts. My Z&P giveaway is something I figured a newb would be more likely to enjoy being that they were pretty common and something most advanced reefers would pass on.

[CalmSeasQuest]

I don't think we have to restrict it to newbs. I think the spirit of helping each other out is what counts. My Z&P giveaway is something I figured a newb would be more likely to enjoy being that they were pretty common and something most advanced reefers would pass on.

I don't think the intent was to restrict it to newbys, rather to provide preferential treatment (i.e. take without giving.) Everyone would be invited to participate and benefit. :)

[jolson10450]

I had given thought to a "Take it Or Leave it Table" for equipment and dry goods for the Lansing swap. I have a bunch of odds and ends, that I would like to clear out. They would be of use to someone and rather than sending them to the landfill or putting a bunch of effort selling and meeting up, I was going to do the table and invite others to do the same. Unfortunately, I got a little busy and just didn't have the extra time to put into the project for the swap this Sunday.

I normally get a table at the various swaps around the state. The CR table could be the Take It or Leave It table at those other swaps. My only concern though with volunteering is I don't want to be taking more home that no one picked up than I came with. My goal is to help other reefers AND clear stuff out. So hopefully, we could work through that (likely) problem.

i like the idea of take it or leave it but my concern would be parasites, especially if newbies take the items now knowing what parasites could effect them... it happens all the time but other than that i say its a great idea! i would drop a few off, then you just restrict it to 1 item per person, just put a hand stamp on them if they got an item or something

[Wy Renegade]

Sounds like a super idea to me. In addition to Justins comment on parasites, I would add that you might want to have those maning the table providing a dip so that someone doesn't inadvertentally release some parasite into the donation tank.

I like both the idea that newbies can take without putting in, and that more experienced reefers can do a 2 for one swap.

[creefer]

Randy has a great point. A dip is nearly required I would think.

[dlhirst]

I support the idea as well! It's a great way to get people to COME to the swaps, too. You might consider talking to a LFS or two about keeping the corals in between swaps. Initially, they might object to the idea of FREE corals, when certainly they are in the business of selling corals... But, "I can get a free coral if..." makes that LFS a destination for people who might not be SO local. We are spoiled here in the Detroit Metro area, where driving 10 miles pretty much ensures you have already passed at least one retailer with SW livestock on hand. But, you might drive by five of them to get to the guy who has a freebie waiting for you!

Also, as for the "drab corals" idea, I think that remains to be seen. I think a lot of reefers just pull out the Kenyas and toss 'em in the trash. But, half a colony of zoas? You would want them to go to a good home. I tear off half my GSP every few weeks or so, and give it to one of several LFSs for free. Just cuz, I think somebody should use it.

The likelihood is, however, that the free corals will most often be those most fast growing corals - like zoas, palys, etc. Part of the reason someone is giving them away is because you need to prune the hedges. That those are also the easiest for newbs to grow is just a bonus.

But, if someone is tired of his meat corals and scolys, let me know! I got a spot for two. :)

[brandeewyne]

Pretty sure the idea of this (especially equipment wise) is to get rid of the stuff you dont need/want, or is maybe just useful to someone else for parts.... requiring a "drop off" like some have said is kinda defeating the purpose of just getting rid of this stuff, because if you require someone to leave something to take something in the end you've still got something on the table at the end of the day for jim to lug home, and hes already said he doesn't wanna do that and I dont blame him ;)

I mean the thread title is give a penny/leave a penny kinda like u see in the convenience stores... they dont require you to leave a penny to take one thats just kinda silly lol

Anyways.... great idea Jim and a great way to help others... and clear out your junk :lol:

i see the two ideas as slightly different concepts.

the thread was initially addressing the idea of sharing/donating to those new in the hobby without asking them to give something in return. to include those of us who are old crows in the tank game, it would be more expected to exchange for something. for example, i've a gorgeous colony of galaxia that could use trimming up so i set aside two of the frags for the "community" tank. as i drop them off there are a couple frags of purple deaths that would fill in a bare spot nicely so i snag one to take home. but .. BUT .. that still leaves frags for a newbie to fall in love with as well as giving me an avenue to pad the pot.

the second concept seemed to be centralized more around the "clear out" mentality .. i can't use it, but maybe someone can. that 400 maxijet that's been collecting dust on the shelf that you know you'll never use again may be exactly what the next guy needs for his 10 gallon QT set up. why buy a new one while a perfectly good one is getting tossed into a landfill? or that great new can of pellets that you thought sure your fish would love, but turns out they won't touch the stuff? why not offer it up to someone who thinks they can feed a tank for a few months with it? (in this instance, i think the best way to avoid one person being stuck with a ton of stuff to lug home is to make those who are offering up parts/pieces/goodies for the taking should be responsible for their own things that didn't find a new home. maybe a requirement to leave items on the "free pickins table" could be that you have to have it tagged with your name/user name/phone .. collect what's left before leaving.)

i don't think the latter is based as much on the give/take scale as the former. both are fabulous ideas, both can work rather easily. i just think they are very individual ideas and should be kept as such.

and then again .. i could be flat out wrong. :duh: either way, i love the giving attitude! this can work, let's make it happen!

[Sir Patrick]

Awsome idea!!!

[CalmSeasQuest]

Lots of interesting comments and ideas - Here's another idea for a potential addition/variation...Perhaps provide as bit of recognition for donors by including a slightly modified Pay it Forward program.

To recognize and thank those that donate more valued corals, The donor would have their name added as a prefix to that piece (i.e. CalmSeasQuests Red Hornets.) All recipients would agree that before any frags were sold, the same size Frag (or polyp count) has to be returned to the program (or passed on to the next recipient if decentralized.) Everyone would agree to identify the lineage (original source of the Frag) as The Coral Bank and include both the Coral Bank (TCB) and the Donors prefix on all subsequent sales (i.e. TCB CSQ Red Hornets.)

It's a way to recognize those not donating Kenya Tree (not that there's anything wrong with Kenya Tree :big_grin:) and get higher quality, more sought after corals into circulation. It also places the emphasis on aquaculture and "giving back" before any consideration is given to profit.

Maybe a more descriptive name would be "Coral Bank" (Try this - TheCoralBank.com (http://www.TheCoralBank.com) :big_grin:) Get a loan (Frag), pay it back with no interest (same size/polyps.) so it can then be "loaned" to another...etc. If successful, I can also see a point where it might even drive down some corals costs faster than current depreciation (at least in the immediate vicinity of the program.) The model could also easily be duplicated in other areas markets, potentially world-wide.

Personally, I have a few desirable corals that I would love to donate, knowing that many would benefit. I also think it would be enjoyable to track the proliferation over time. Seeing how many are positively impacted from the genesis of an idea and a single Frag.

Just a thought :)

[Wy Renegade]

i see the two ideas as slightly different concepts.

the thread was initially addressing the idea of sharing/donating to those new in the hobby without asking them to give something in return. to include those of us who are old crows in the tank game, it would be more expected to exchange for something. for example, i've a gorgeous colony of galaxia that could use trimming up so i set aside two of the frags for the "community" tank. as i drop them off there are a couple frags of purple deaths that would fill in a bare spot nicely so i snag one to take home. but .. BUT .. that still leaves frags for a newbie to fall in love with as well as giving me an avenue to pad the pot.

the second concept seemed to be centralized more around the "clear out" mentality .. i can't use it, but maybe someone can. that 400 maxijet that's been collecting dust on the shelf that you know you'll never use again may be exactly what the next guy needs for his 10 gallon QT set up. why buy a new one while a perfectly good one is getting tossed into a landfill? or that great new can of pellets that you thought sure your fish would love, but turns out they won't touch the stuff? why not offer it up to someone who thinks they can feed a tank for a few months with it? (in this instance, i think the best way to avoid one person being stuck with a ton of stuff to lug home is to make those who are offering up parts/pieces/goodies for the taking should be responsible for their own things that didn't find a new home. maybe a requirement to leave items on the "free pickins table" could be that you have to have it tagged with your name/user name/phone .. collect what's left before leaving.)

i don't think the latter is based as much on the give/take scale as the former. both are fabulous ideas, both can work rather easily. i just think they are very individual ideas and should be kept as such.

and then again .. i could be flat out wrong. :duh: either way, i love the giving attitude! this can work, let's make it happen!

No, I think you hit the nail right on the head, nice summary.


Lots of interesting comments and ideas - Here's another idea for a potential addition/variation...Perhaps provide as bit of recognition for donors by including a slightly modified Pay it Forward program.

To recognize and thank those that donate more valued corals, The donor would have their name added as a prefix to that piece (i.e. CalmSeasQuests Red Hornets.) All recipients would agree that before any frags were sold, the same size Frag (or polyp count) has to be returned to the program (or passed on to the next recipient if decentralized.) Everyone would agree to identify the lineage (original source of the Frag) as The Coral Bank and include both the Coral Bank (TCB) and the Donors prefix on all subsequent sales (i.e. TCB CSQ Red Hornets.)

It's a way to recognize those not donating Kenya Tree (not that there's anything wrong with Kenya Tree :big_grin:) and get higher quality, more sought after corals into circulation. It also places the emphasis on aquaculture and "giving back" before any consideration is given to profit.

Maybe a more descriptive name would be "Coral Bank" (Try this - TheCoralBank.com (http://www.TheCoralBank.com) :big_grin:) Get a loan (Frag), pay it back with no interest (same size/polyps.) so it can then be "loaned" to another...etc. If successful, I can also see a point where it might even drive down some corals costs faster than current depreciation (at least in the immediate vicinity of the program.) The model could also easily be duplicated in other areas markets, potentially world-wide.

Personally, I have a few desirable corals that I would love to donate, knowing that many would benefit. I also think it would be enjoyable to track the proliferation over time. Seeing how many are positively impacted from the genesis of an idea and a single Frag.

Just a thought :)

The only caution I would add here, is that this could lead to additional confusion with the name game. Pretty soon you have 20 different types of red hornet running around with people trying to keep track of the proper name.

I think an additional stipulation should be that if you are taking a frag for free, that coral or its descendents may never be sold, only given away. This would require a little more work, in that it would require someone to keep track of who frags were given too and perhaps issue gentle or not so gentle reminders when necessary, but it can be done.