dinoflagellates?

[brandeewyne]

i understand that the exact species that are found in home aquariums have not been identified, let alone studied to an extent of having a solid eradication treatment. that being said, i also understand that the most common form of attack is elevated pH (up to 8.6,) decreased photoperiod (4 hrs max per day) and decreased nutrients (nitrates and more importantly, phosphates.) none of which is a quick fix or guaranteed fix, let alone a permanent fix if it does happen to help.

has anyone had anyone had experience with this snot-like enemy?

[Sharkboy87]

Yes, very commin in "new reef tanks" (less than 1 year old,) with excessive nutrient levels. Continue to do what you have been doing, if you have implimented what you have posted ^. Keep sucking them off with a siphon when you do water changes, daily if necesary. Since they are a protazoa and not bacteria, medications such as erythromycin will not really work on them.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/index.php#11

[brandeewyne]

this isn't a new tank .. nor have nutrient levels been an issue in the past so i'm still trying to pinpoint the cause. phos tests are essentially useless considering they consume them at such a high rate, even if they are partially responsible a test wouldn't confirm.

i'll have drunk fish as of tomorrow .. vodka, here i come. adding it to the regiment.

ugh. my poor tank. :thumbsdown:

and thank you for the input, much appreciated.

[Sharkboy87]

What kind of salt and makeup water are you using? Additives? Foods?

[schminksbro]

Actually dinos are very common in older tanks as well. Maintain high Ph, reduce lighting and no water changes until eradicated. If you get them on the run a lights out treatment for 3 days can help push them over the edge.

[MizTanks]

When I start getting small breakouts after a wc. It's telling me that it's time to change my RO filter. When I do, no more dino's.

[brandeewyne]

Maintain high Ph, reduce lighting and no water changes until eradicated.

thank you for the input, much appreciated .. although the "no water change" suggestion kind of surprises me. everything i've read so far has suggested daily siphoning of any visible offenders. what is the benefit of waiting out the 3 day "lights out" period before removing them?

my RODI water tests at 0 for TDS .. what do you find as your correlation between the two, Miz?

[schminksbro]

In my experience the 3 days by themselves won't do the trick. When the lights come back on the dinos will return. If you get them on the run and then throw the knock out punch with the lights out you can push them over the edge. I also don't know the science behind the no water changes but I came across it on RC. Being that I noticed blooms after water changes I decided to give it a shot. It did the trick. Fighting dinos is a tough battle but if you take these measures you can win. By the way have you noticed a snail die off? Some bacteria can resemble dinos but dead snails are a pretty good indicator that dinos are what your dealing with.

thank you for the input, much appreciated .. although the "no water change" suggestion kind of surprises me. everything i've read so far has suggested daily siphoning of any visible offenders. what is the benefit of waiting out the 3 day "lights out" period before removing them?

my RODI water tests at 0 for TDS .. what do you find as your correlation between the two, Miz?

[schminksbro]

Here you go Brandee
http://www.reefs.org/library/article/t_crail.html

[brandeewyne]

i have .. my snail population has dwindled drastically. that was the final indication of what it was (undoubtedly) i was dealing with. looks like i'll be restocking once i win this battle.

my pH is currently peaking at 8.5 .. would you recommend i go any higher?

thank you, i'll be diving into that article with the quickness. i'm so grateful for any help i can get .. i'm ready to pull my hair out. it's been difficult finding much "solid" information on the issue so far. from the reading i've done, i'm under the impression the exact species most home aquarist deal with have yet to be identified let alone directly studied.

[Wy Renegade]

Seems like I ran across a recommendation for elevating salinity a bit as well for help in battling these. In fact, I'm pretty sure that why I run my tank with a slightly higher salinity. Don't swear to that, but I think so.

[schminksbro]

Increased salinity would make it more difficult to maintain Ph at higher levels. The salt replaces oxygen. The higher the salinity the less dissolved oxygen. Chemists correct me if I am wrong.

Seems like I ran across a recommendation for elevating salinity a bit as well for help in battling these. In fact, I'm pretty sure that why I run my tank with a slightly higher salinity. Don't swear to that, but I think so.

[schminksbro]

You would probably be safe as high as 8.6 but the important thing is at the low end you don't fall below 8.2.

i have .. my snail population has dwindled drastically. that was the final indication of what it was (undoubtedly) i was dealing with. looks like i'll be restocking once i win this battle.

my pH is currently peaking at 8.5 .. would you recommend i go any higher?

thank you, i'll be diving into that article with the quickness. i'm so grateful for any help i can get .. i'm ready to pull my hair out. it's been difficult finding much "solid" information on the issue so far. from the reading i've done, i'm under the impression the exact species most home aquarist deal with have yet to be identified let alone directly studied.

[brandeewyne]

at least two weeks of raised pH .. day 3 of "lights out" .. still signs of dinos in the tank, albeit a considerably depleted population. to change the water or not to change the water, that is the question. the last thing i want to do is encourage another bloom.

i hate to continue on too much longer with my lights down, but if i don't get the snot attack under control i'm going to lose everything :thumbsdown:

[schminksbro]

I would recommend no water change but I wouldn't go more than 3 days without light. This is why I suggest waiting until you have the dinos on the run prior to going lights out.

at least two weeks of raised pH .. day 3 of "lights out" .. still signs of dinos in the tank, albeit a considerably depleted population. to change the water or not to change the water, that is the question. the last thing i want to do is encourage another bloom.

i hate to continue on too much longer with my lights down, but if i don't get the snot attack under control i'm going to lose everything :thumbsdown:

[Sharkboy87]

Don't be afraid to do a water change, unless u have a nutrient rich water source. Hit them with the siphon. I would have hit them REALLY good prior to shutting the lights off, at least to put a dent in them. Make sure u check your water chemistry, in the tank, and your makeup water.

[brandeewyne]

it looked promising this morning as the lights came on .. i'm hopeful the last few hours void of light did the trick! plan on hitting up a 25% WC today (after playing chemistry lab, of course!)

keep your fingers crossed for me, this mess has had me frazzled!

[HappyCoral]

I have used Seachem Clarity for a (coagulant) with positive results. It does make a mess for awhile though.

[brandeewyne]

I have used Seachem Clarity for a (coagulant) with positive results. It does make a mess for awhile though.

what other methods do you use it in conjuction with? do you use it before or after a shortened light period? water changes?

thanks much for any information!

[schminksbro]

Throughout this process Brandee make sure you run lots of carbon and change it frequently. Dinos give off toxins and carbon will help to absorb them. If you must do a WC go ahead but don't be surprised if you get another bloom. I found that manual removal with a turkey baster to be the better option. Every time I did another WC I got another bloom and started the battle all over again.

[HappyCoral]

what other methods do you use it in conjuction with? do you use it before or after a shortened light period? water changes?

thanks much for any information!

Pretty much every method above. I used it when I first turned the light on, because most the dino's were free floating then.

Make sure your source water is good. I haven't had a problem since changing and upgrading all my RO filters and a new DI.

Filter socks are key when using the above method.

[brandeewyne]

so when would you think i'll be in the clear for a WC without worry? it may drive me batsh*t crazy to let it go much longer :stupidme:

i'm not seeing any culprits so far this morning, although i've not done the inch by inch inspection yet either.

as far as carbon, that opens up a whole new sling of questions. (i may have to start a whole new thread on that one.) i've heard such a broad time frame range on how often that stuff is beneficial. i think it was in one of Fenner's books that i read it was less than an hour, don't quote me on that though. other people have claimed up to two weeks. is that relative to what it draws out of the system?

i try to find a happy medium when changing the carbon in the reactor. and that fluxtuates with what i'm dealing with at the time.

[schminksbro]

Carbon in my opinion fills up pretty quickly. I would go with small portions and change as often as you can find time. While dealing with dinos I wouldn't go more than a week. I would keep the Ph elevated for at least a couple of more weeks and then do a WC. If you are running a skimmer you should be fine.

so when would you think i'll be in the clear for a WC without worry? it may drive me batsh*t crazy to let it go much longer :stupidme:

i'm not seeing any culprits so far this morning, although i've not done the inch by inch inspection yet either.

as far as carbon, that opens up a whole new sling of questions. (i may have to start a whole new thread on that one.) i've heard such a broad time frame range on how often that stuff is beneficial. i think it was in one of Fenner's books that i read it was less than an hour, don't quote me on that though. other people have claimed up to two weeks. is that relative to what it draws out of the system?

i try to find a happy medium when changing the carbon in the reactor. and that fluxtuates with what i'm dealing with at the time.