Sump Questions?

[harmanrk]

I am working on an idea for a sump filter, and have a few questions. The drawing below shows what I am thinking of as a basic plumbing layout. The Red line being the flow from the tank to the sump, Blue being the return from the sump to the tank, and the Green crossover pipe is a way to use the pump to prime the intake. By closing the ball valves on the Intake, and Return lines, and opening the vavle on the Crossover, the pump, could be used to force the air out of the U bend in the intake. Naturally, care would be needed to insure the sump is not run dry, or the main tank overflowed. Is this something that would be needed, or am I overengineering this? Also, In the event of a power outage, a simple check valve will work to prevent the main tank from draining on the return side, but what type of vavle is used on the intake side to prevent uncontrolled draining on the tank?
http://home.comcast.net/~rharman8677/photos/Sump.jpg

[carpenterwrasse]

in mine my sump is large enough to handle any excess in case of a power outage you just need to place the out going drain a few inches from the top so not too much will drain out

[Guido]

OK, this is a diagram of how I think my sump should look. If anyone has any advice or

tips on how to tweak it or improve it, let me know, because I should be able to put one

together here soon. If you think any of the baffles should be higher or lower then

others, I have numbered them to make it easier for your help. Take a look and let me

know, thank. (Keep in mind this picture is from my camera phone LoL, I lack a digital

camera)

[harmanrk]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I found this link on another thread #ed_op#A href="http://www.melevsreef.com/"#ed_cl#http://www.melevsreef.com/#ed_op#/A#ed_cl# It has lots of wonderful infomation. According to that information, a and 3 should be the same heigth for the bubble trap.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Robert#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Guido]

OK, so all baffles should be generally the same height. Now my other question is, do I

need all the piping like this one has at the bottom of the link?

http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/sumps/f/sump_f.html

[dakar]

I really doubt it, not sure what all Marc has plumbed in that spagehti pile of PVC, you'll likely only have one (maybe two) downspout and one return.

[Guido]

Sorry to keep spamming, but I always seem to find another question after I already post

one, (plus the pearls are nice to keep my pet healthy :P). But anyways, there seems to

be a lot of different piping going on in this picture (the one all the way at the bottom of

the link http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/sumps/f/sump_f.html ), now I was

wondering if I could get by with maybe a "in and out" piping (intake and return) or would

is it more complicated then just having 2 pieces of piping running from the tank to the

sump/refug?

[dakar]

beat your post by two mins typing time...



I really doubt it, not sure what all Marc has plumbed in that spagehti pile of PVC, you'll likely only have one (maybe two) downspout and one return.

[Guido]

LOL, that was quick dakar.... I didn't even get to finish my 2ND post and you already had

answered my question haha. Thanks a lot man. Oh, and guess what, I should be able

to have everything I need a lot sooner then expected. I got a job interview tomorrow. (Ill

be making at least 4 times the money :P )

[dakar]

Hope you nail it on the first interview! 4x the salary can't hurt that's for sure....

[Guido]

LOL, it will be nice. I had originally estimated it would take me a few months just to get

the equipment (excluding the lights) but now I should have the lights and hopefully the

skimmer and a nice heater the first month of this job. Going to make my life a whole lot

easier in this whole journey. I will probably be posting a new topic in a week or two to

figure out the rest of my needs, I'll be sure to let you know so you can give me a hand

with any of my questions, if you don't mind :P. :mrgreen:

[graphixx]

as far as plumbing that is all you need is an overflow to the sump and then a return going to the tank. Now on your diagram I would change it a bit. I would go from left to right. skimmer, return, refugium. when you overflow from the tankl, split the line and run one line to the skimmer and the other to the refugium. and then both of them will flow to the center to the return. you want some flow going through your fuge for nutrient explort. But it is a fairly easy process. If you have a good return pump you can split that also and have 2 nozzles coming into the tank to increase the flow. And also good luck on the interview KNOCK EM DEAD :D

[Guido]

OK my comp messed up and I don't think that last post went through, so I'm going to see

if I can remember what I said. OK, if I were to cut the overflow into two parts and have

one go to the skimmer and one to the refug, then wouldn't that leave a half and half not

skimmed and not gone through the refug? Also, what if I were to make the first baffle

just a couple inches longer and cut slits in the top of it (like the link) to give it a trickle

affect, would that be sufficient flow for the refug (going left to right, skimmer, refug,

return). One reason I would prefer to do it this way is it would help me eliminate 90*

elbows and allow me to have my pump running more sufficiently and it wont wear it out

as much. If I'm wrong on any of this, please correct me.

[dakar]

OK my comp messed up and I don't think that last post went through, so I'm going to see if I can remember what I said. OK, if I were to cut the overflow into two parts and have one go to the skimmer and one to the refug, then wouldn't that leave a half and half not skimmed and not gone through the refug?

Yes, but you are dealing with two different types of filtration here as well, the refuge doing biological fitration, and the sump skimming (mechanical filtration). In some cases this is a desired effect. By splitting the overflow to each side you can control the amount of flow through the refuge..



Also, what if I were to make the first baffle just a couple inches longer and cut slits in the top of it (like the link) to give it a trickle affect, would that be sufficient flow for the refug (going left to right, skimmer, refug, return). One reason I would prefer to do it this way is it would help me eliminate 90* elbows and allow me to have my pump running more sufficiently and it wont wear it out as much. If I'm wrong on any of this, please correct me.

Nothing wrong with this method either. There are no 'best' methods for any of this stuff, it's more like 'what works best for you' and how you want things to flow. How big of a return pump are you planning on running?

BTW you can eliminate most of (if not all of) the 90's by using flexible PVC, aka Spa Flex, or any decent flexible hose (just get the black pond type so algae has no light to grow in there)

[Guido]

Well dakar, in your opinion, what would be more affective, splitting it into two, or my
idea? I'm guessing you have yours set up for skimmer/pump/refug,so probably
that way would work best, but I'm also not sure on my pump either. I see a few good
ones for about 100 or so, but they pump about 1600gph and, well, with the added water
volume from the sump (29g) I will still only have about 104g total, and I am to understand
that it need not be more then 3-4x gph then the over all water volume of the tank (104g).
I would actually like your advice on a good pump to buy. Also, one more quick question
about the overflow box. I was looking at them before and it said that there was an extra
piece needed for the overflow box. Is the overflow box the only thing I need, or is there
something else that I would need for it?

[Guido]

OK, I think I forgot a little helpful piece of information. The total distance of tubing will
probably be no more then 6-8 feet.