CONFLICT OVER REFUGIUMS

[Wooten_PE]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I understand and fully subscribe to the idea of a refuge in the sump to act as a filter and provide a safe area for small fauna to live and breed.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#It seems that most everybody uses a pump to return the refuge water back to the main tank. My problem with this is that pump technology as it is today kills the small fauna that get sucked into the return line. Hence, dead "food" is pushed bak into the main tank where it is either eaten or rots.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#If the refuge was elevated to free-flow into the main tank it would produce bubbles, which I think of as bad for reefs.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I have no first-hand experience either way since I am still planning my upcoming leap into reefing.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Someone clarify this conflict for me. Thanks all.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[graphixx]

your return pump should be seperated or 'baffled' from the refugium, this keeps a minimum amount of pods and fauna being sucked in through the return pump. and you do not want snails in your refugium because you run the risk of one getting caught in your return pump plugging and overflowing . you can also do the HOB fuge but they are so small and for a large tank they just dont make sense. and you also increase your over all total water volume. I think almost everyone would agree the under the cabinet sump/fuge is the best way to go. unless you have to option to do something bigger like a rubbermaid sump. I hope this helped.

[Wooten_PE]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Thanks Flounder. That helps a little, but I thought one of the pros of implementing a refuge was a self-sustaining food source for the main tank. What am I missing?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[graphixx]

no that is one of the reason is a haven for your pods to grow and flourish. some other benefits:

hide all of your equipment such as skimmer, heater, pumps,
increase water volume.
a place to dose the tank

[Wooten_PE]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#So I was wrong about the food source. The pods don't get exported to the main tank? Is their purpose in the refuge just to clean?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#As far as a food source for the tank, should you manually remove some pods from the sump and place in tank, or could you keep an area "safe" inside the main tank (kinda like using one of those breeder cages for guppies)?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[graphixx]

oh no pods will find a way into the tank. the baffles just kind of keep them semi seperated and eliminates microbubbles from getting into the tank. but pods will find their way to the return pump and get shot into the main tank. but they are so small they run a small risk of dying in this process.

[Wooten_PE]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Thanks for clarifying this for me. As far as an in-tank refuge, is it worth trying, or just a waste of space?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[graphixx]

not sure what you mean by an in-tank refuge????

[Wooten_PE]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I was thinking of isolating a corner with screening or light diffuser grating to keep predators out and allow small critters that are preyed upon to breed and flourish in the tank. Just a thought.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[graphixx]

how big is your tank you are wanting a refuge for??

[Wooten_PE]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I am planning on a 29 gal. I am not sure whenI will be setting up the tank. I tend to analyze my options for a while before implementing a plan. I like this site because of the first-hand knowledge here. I have read up on the subject of keeping a reef, but advice from those actually managing tanks is unbeatable.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[graphixx]

that is a considerably small tank you could get away with a HOB refugium or if you can fit a 20 gallon under your stand that would work. but I think you would be fine with a HOB. but bigger is allways better !!!!

[Wooten_PE]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#When this thing comes together, I think i will go with a HOB. Is there a brand or style you would suggest above others?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[graphixx]

try Dr Foster & Smith, I think they have some good deals

[Azrile]

I have a 55 gal fuge with a 55gal tank, and I think your mistake is when someone says 'most' of the pods get killed by the return pump. I doubt it's even 25% that get killed. I see mine swimming around all the time after making the trip and rarely notice any dead ones. But even the dead ones end up as food for something (shrimp, worms, other pods etc).

But think about it this way. If you don't 'feed' your tank using the pumped pods from your fuge, then you are going to have to feed them something else (which is basically dead meat).

[dakar]

<DIV>When this thing comes together, I think i will go with a HOB. Is there a brand or style you would suggest above others?</DIV>

If you can work with acrylic at all you could save 75-80% and make your own, some of them get rather expensive quickly.

[graphixx]

oh boy I will second what dakar said!!!!

[RICH]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Hi all#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#for give me for asking , but i am seting up a 180 gal with a 40gal sub tank i will be puting a PM buller2 protein skimmer in with two#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#1200 sedra pumps one for the skimmer and the outher for return#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#with two 250 w jager heaters is there any thing els i should be puting in the sub tank,and i dont under stand what refuge and pods are can some body give me the heads up on refuge and pods are.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Thanks and have a grate day.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# Rich#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[graphixx]

a refuge is short for refugium, this is a safe place for your pods to grow. pods are amphipods and coepods, these are the little critter that scurry around in your tank they are beneficial cleaners and really good food for your tank. this is a safe place to cultivate these. and that sounds like all the equipment you will need in the sump

[RICH]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Hey Flounder#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Thanks again for your help your the man.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Take care.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# Rich.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[graphixx]

Rich your are welcome and its not flounder its graphixx22, Flounder is like a rank, you are ranked I think on how many posts you have if you notice your name it says amoeba below it that is your rank. But I am glad I was able to help you out on this subject. I am allways here if you have any more questions. :D