My First Led build

[Corvette Reefer]

Well im building a led i bought all the stuff last thrusday, just waiting for it too get here but heres my plan for all of it

- 4 of these (http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-107/CREE-XP-dsh-G-R5-Cool/Detail)
- 6 of these (http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-124/CREE-XP-dsh-E-Royal-Blue/Detail)
- 2 of these (i think these were it) (http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-111/CREE-XR-dsh-E-Warm-White/Detail)
- driver (http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-3/driver-700ma-48v-drivers/Detail)
2679
i have a old fixture that houses PC's but i scraped the stuff cuz it dont work so im using the aluminum box it was it, and its gona have a switch built onto it.


Stuff came today heres what i had ordered its all laid out
http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/jordan_arnett/random003.jpg

Here is the fixture and everything i will be using for the build
http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/jordan_arnett/random004.jpg

[bluwc]

Goodluck! I'll be watching this one as I will have to build something similar one day.

[MizTanks]

I'm watching too! Git-er-done! :)

[2pairs]

So what are you going to use for a heat sink and what are you going to use thermal heat tape or thermal adhesive?

[Corvette Reefer]

well with the size of the fixture and how far the bulbs are and that there are only 12 im just gona use a fan to blow over the leds to keep them cool i have a heat sink but, idk if theres really a benefit from anywhere i could put it becuase its small and the heat should stay down pretty good. And im just going to solder the leds onto it or screw them into the fixture if i can.

Im thinking about how i could get the fixture higher so light it more spread out, im not sure if it will need it yet tho ill have to wait to see once i get my stuff in the mail.

[2pairs]

well with the size of the fixture and how far the bulbs are and that there are only 12 im just gona use a fan to blow over the leds to keep them cool i have a heat sink but, idk if theres really a benefit from anywhere i could put it becuase its small and the heat should stay down pretty good. And im just going to solder the leds onto it or screw them into the fixture if i can.

Im thinking about how i could get the fixture higher so light it more spread out, im not sure if it will need it yet tho ill have to wait to see once i get my stuff in the mail.


The problem with what you are going to do is you are skipping two important aspects. #1 is a heat sink this is what keeps the diode cooled to a temp that it can operate at with out getting over heated. #2 the use of a thermal conductive material with out this the emitters will not be able to transfer heat properly.
Both of these can and will cause premature failure. If you were using the cheep $1 led's I would say ha go for it, but you spent the money for good led's it just makes good sense to do it rite. Then you can add more if needed or wanted because it will still be working.
Well this is just a thought and I don't want to discourage you, I am only trying to help.
And I will help if you want.

[motorcityreefs]

+1 on that, If you don't use a heat sink thay will burn out and for the thermal transfer you should be using thermal glue or a thermal past if you are giong to screw them to the heat sink, and good luck on your build.:thumbsup:

[Mr. Microscope]

+12! You gotta have a heat sink on those LED's. Here's a link:
Extruded Aluminum Heatsinks from HeatSinkUSA (http://www.heatsinkusa.com/)

They'll cut them to whatever size you need (they even do custom shapes if you need them, but you won't for that). The prices are pretty good too.

Use your fan to blow on top of the heatsink as active cooling.

BTW, that color combination is going to look a bit yellow. Here are the standard ratio people use for about a 10-12K look. Cool White:Royal Blue = 1:1, Neutral White:Royal Blue = 1:2, or Warm White:Royal Blue = 1:4. Cool Whites are being phased out of the DIY community and being replaced by Neutral Whites. Cool Whites have a spectrum that overlaps too much blue with royal blue. It washes out the warmer colors and produces a kind of icy look. I imagine you'll probably want to either up the royal blues, or get rid of some of the whites.

If I were to do a build with 12 LEDs, I'd use 8 Royal Blue and 4 Neutral White.

[Corvette Reefer]

The whole structure it is being built on a aluminum case so the who thing acts as a heat sink and i will be getting a fan to blow over the leds to help and maybe ill add the little heat sink i have and put it in the middle on top of it once i build it and see how hot it gets.
As for the led heat transfer, im going to solder them with aluminum type stuff so it will transfer heat very good. And the leds color im just experimenting, i have read that the cool white wash out corals but i want the power from them, and im just gona do tests and see how i like the color, i cant change any colors now cuz i already ordered them, but im hoppppping it should be appealing to me

[Mr. Microscope]

How thick is the Al? If it's at least 1/4 inch where you put the LED's you might be okay. Just be careful. That thing is going to get hot. Also, be especially careful not to cause a short between the LEDs/soldering and the housing or the light is going to turn into one big electrocution machine.

[2pairs]

The whole structure it is being built on a aluminum case so the who thing acts as a heat sink and i will be getting a fan to blow over the leds to help and maybe ill add the little heat sink i have and put it in the middle on top of it once i build it and see how hot it gets.
As for the led heat transfer, im going to solder them with aluminum type stuff so it will transfer heat very good. And the leds color im just experimenting, i have read that the cool white wash out corals but i want the power from them, and im just gona do tests and see how i like the color, i cant change any colors now cuz i already ordered them, but im hoppppping it should be appealing to me

First thing don't get me wrong I am not trying to discourage you, I just know what you are going to do will over heat the LED's and that is a wast of good LED's. After you do this and over heat them they will no longer be good for use on a aquarium even though they will still light up they will no longer be capable of producing the PAR that you need.
You already have about $60 in Led's it would only cost about $15 for the thermal conductive grease or adhesive and a heat sink isn't that much more. The best thing you can do is just wait until you can get the things to do it so it will work and last.
As for a heat sink I have some square tubing you could have to put together and make one, I don't know how big you aer thinking but I think their is enough to do what you will need.
Think about it, I just hate to see you fry those LED's.

[Corvette Reefer]

The aluminum is about pretty skin but its still pretty think not 1/4 inch maybe 1/8 inch but its 24 inches long and 4 inches wide, i got a fan to blow on top of the leds to keep them cool and a small about 3"x3" heat sink i could put on top...do you think thats good to keep down the heat.. yeah i know what ur saying id hattteee to kill the leds, but i would guess with the size of my aluminum case that it would keep it koool right? i got some pictures of everything i got so ill add those pictures of my actual stuff. Acually i could maybe use that tubing to lift the leds out of the cave they are in so the light is wider tho, and it would help even more with heat.

[Mr. Microscope]

I'd be interested to see images. One of the biggest perks that got me into LEDs is the fact that they can last five years plus without having to be replaced, but only if their heat is properly managed.

[2pairs]

I guess the question that needs to be asked is, how big of a fan are you planing on using? If you are thinking of a 4 inch computer fan it will not be enough a couple of 6 inch house fans might give you enough CFM maybe. When you just blow air across instead of through something it is not as efficient.

[Corvette Reefer]

well i guess ill have to get a bigger fan cuz the one i got now is small. whatelse can i do to keep it cooler? i dont have money to keep putting into this, and i gota ship my light out i sold soon.

[Mr. Microscope]

I hate to say it again, but you're going to lose all the money you put into this when the LED's blow. Just put the $15 into a heatsink from heatsink USA and you'll have an awesome light that will last you for years. Then you won't need to buy a new fan.

[Corvette Reefer]

would this work? 2688

[2pairs]

What you are supposed to do is attach the Led's directly to the heat sink. It is the only way to keep them cooled properly. I know it isn't what you want to hear, but you need to do it rite or it will fail.

[Mr. Microscope]

In short, no. It especially will not pull any heat away from the LEDs mounted towards the ends. Here's a suggestion to get you by. How big is that heatsink? Is there enough room for five LEDs on it? Take a warm white and surround it by four royal blues and use it as a spot light for your tank. Trust me, that color combo will make your corals look like a disney cartoon with ridiculous color. If that's too crazy, maybe try two cool whites and three royal blues. Then, when you have enough money to get a properly sized heatsink for your casing you can reuse those LEDs.

One of my concerns with your original layout is the spacing of the LEDs. This solution will make for better color blending and less spotlighting. LED's don't need to go from one end of your tank to the other like a T5. Think of it more like a pendant and can cover a larger area. Two inches is really the maximum distance that you want LEDs from one another or your tank will look like a disco ball of colors and color shadows. That is another reason you need proper heatsinking. The closer together the LEDs, the more heat they produce. These 3W LEDs are no joke. They put out a lot of light and get extremely hot.

[Corvette Reefer]

only the 4 lights in the center have optics the rest have a140 degree angle which has been measured and light coverage should be fine, But i dont understand how the heat sink will not work on top, it would sandwhich the leds, the fixture im mounting the leds to is AL, so its gona transfer fine im pretty sure, evil said its best to sandwich the base between the led's and heat sinks...so im pretty sure it would work but would be better if i got 2 more to go on oppiste sides too, so 3 totaly, that heat sinks only 3x3 btw

[2pairs]

I think you are misunderstanding Evil and think you should show him what you are planing. I am very sure he will tell you it won't work.

[Corvette Reefer]

I got some AL tubing so ill mount the leds on that, and cut up that heat sink and ill mount it to the tubing to help cool even more

[2pairs]

I got some AL tubing so ill mount the leds on that, and cut up that heat sink and ill mount it to the tubing to help cool even more

Good that can work just make sure the fan is pulling or blowing air through the tubing not just blowing over it.

[Corvette Reefer]

Alright heres the tubing i got and heat sinks i got, im using heat sinks to lift the tubing up higher so light isnt blocked by the walls, i should be assemble things either tonight or tomorrow.
2689

[Corvette Reefer]

2690

This is how it will look once all soldered toghter. The fan blows in, on, and under the tubing, that should keep it very cool. you can feel very cool air at the other end, and i hope to maybe add another fan in the future to make it even cooler.

[2pairs]

Well it looks like you have a plan that might work, keep us posted on how this works out.

[MizTanks]

This is awesome Corvette!

[Corvette Reefer]

Alright well i got all the stuff toghter with 2 part, just letting it harden up now and then i should solder the leds down and do wiring.

me and my dad are wondering about soldering the leds, can we use silver based solder or lead to mount them to the tubing?

[2pairs]

That is one of the things I have been wondering about, the amount of heat it will take to solder the backing plate to anything will probably melt the LED emitter. Their is one other thing I am wondering about are you planing on soldering the wires first or after? I always solder all of the wires before mounting, it is way to difficult to solder after it is hooked to a heat sink.
As for solder for the wires it needs to be rosin core solder.

[Corvette Reefer]

my fixture it will be easier to solder the wires after and Yeah i deffinally dont want to over heat them, from what i read on evils guide that a high watt solder is best because it will heat the solder before geting to the led and into the heat sink, as u solder tho the heat would just go into the heatsink is the way i understand it, so it wouldn't be too much of a problem over heating them because the heatsink will take the heat away from the leds. Thats how i would see it, but i dont want to ruin the leds.

The way im thinking of doing it is to lay the led down and solder just 2 small points between each screw gap on opposite sides on the led to the pipe, so it will be minimal heat because its the farthest point of the leds...so wish me luck on this, ill probably do it tomorrow afternoon.

[2pairs]

Well definitely let us know how this works out.
It still sounds a lot harder than using the adhesive. I can mount a dozen in less than 5 minutes.

[Corvette Reefer]

Well that stuff it hard as rock now, 3000 psi is right danggg, so now time to solder, we will see how it turns out.

And yeah using adhesive may only take 5 min to mount but u gota let it dry or 24 hours, which suckkks lol so hopefully this all works nice and we will see. Ill get pictures up as soon as i solder them on which will probably be in a few hours

[2pairs]

I don't know ware you heard 24 hrs.
Mine only takes 1hr to cure.

[Corvette Reefer]

well every solder we tried doesnt stick to aluminum so we had to use the 2 part but this stuff take 24 HR's so now i gota wait again!! uhhhhh....this took way longer then i thought to put toghter.

heres a picture of the leds glued down now.
2693

[Corvette Reefer]

guys..... i think i killed it.........im about to loose it! i had it all solder all the leds working when i tested it, and plugged the driver in, it was working perfect. so i added on my switch and as soon as i flicked it they shut off right. then flicked on nothing....i tested every light bulb with my tester, nothing...im about to have a break down now uhhh! i cant believe that happened! after all that time and work now nothing, and i dont even have a light on my fishtank right now.

[CableGuy]

Where did you put the switch? In the 120V or the 12V? Im not sure where you can put it, but I've read some issues with having the driver running but not hooked up and then hooking it up. This will fry all the LED's.

So what Im saying is if you switched the 12V output and had the driver running and may have possibly fried your lights. But I am not an LED pro, just telling you how I understand it which may be incorrect.

[Corvette Reefer]

Yeah... i placed it between the driver and leds....man how could i be so dumb! i just re read my original post on making a led light, and evil specifically said DONT place a switch between the leds and driver. man i how on earth could i do that... i just waisted all my money idk what to do now.. everything in my tank is gong to die.

[CableGuy]

Yeah... i placed it between the driver and leds....man how could i be so dumb! i just re read my original post on making a led light, and evil specifically said DONT place a switch between the leds and driver. man i how on earth could i do that... i just waisted all my money idk what to do now.. everything in my tank is gong to die.

All the work you've done isnt wasted. Just the LED's. I know you have limited funds but all you need are new LED's. Any light - a shop light, a spot light, anything that can be had from home depot will keep your corals alive. Yes, they may start to look bad over the next week or two but it will be better than running no light at all.

:doh:

[2pairs]

Wow that is a shame, do you know if it is the driver or the led's that fried?

[Corvette Reefer]

its the leds, every single one. i have a tester and none of the leds will light up.. and the driver i tested with a voltage tester and it still works.

[Mr. Microscope]

Darn! That must have been devastating. Sorry to see that. +1 on getting any light you can in there. Even sunlight will help until you can get something better to replace it.

[Sir Patrick]

Got ya covered on a temporary light Jordan. Will drop off in the AM.

[MizTanks]

Don't give up-now you know what to do-truly gonna be a sweet lil fixture-hang in there darlin :) just think how many peps your going to be helping with this DIY. Now that's cool!!

[Corvette Reefer]

Well i got some light that should work for a little bit...ill have to see what i can do about these leds now..im not giving up im just bummed i lost all my money in this thing.... i do have some info tho about my light.... even with the leds 4 inches apart it gave great color filling! and also the color omg it looked amazing it wasnt yellow like one guy said it would be it was very nice blue white... woulda looked just stunning on my tank

[Corvette Reefer]

Well ordered the leds again should be here by wensday ill guess and also some thermal adhesive too... i got a question for hooking up a switch, so i know ur not suppose to hook up a switch to all the leds between the leds and driver which cause all them to fry but i like when i first go it working i had a idea of one switch placed on just the white leds between the leds and driver but only hooked up to white so the blue dont turn off so the dirver would go from 12 leds to 6, would this be safe to do? when i first hooked a switch up like this i worked fine, what shorted the leds was when i added a second switch to all 12 leds, not just the 6

[2pairs]

After buying the led's twice, I would just do it the the way it is supposed to be and you won't have to buy them three times.

[pjr]

Sorry to hear about the problems. How many LEDs did you loose?

[Corvette Reefer]

Yeah i def finally dont wanna lose them again

and i lost all 12 bulbs

[2pairs]

I think you want to turn them on and off separately and the best and safest way is to use separate drivers on each.
Just save up and get some more led's and a second driver, then put the blues on one and the whites on the other.

[Mike]

Hey Corvette,

I have the XRE series here. I am actually looking for help cleaning the garage out. I will go ahead and let you have the LED's you ned to get your project done. I am looking towards mid month to get down to business on the garage. I will be home in the eveening Tue, Wed, Thur so just let me know what you need and I will get it set aside. Send me a PM and let me know when you will be coming by. After you are out of school we can tackle the garage.

Mike

[CableGuy]

Wow!! +100 to Mike! Very nice of you man!

[Corvette Reefer]

My dad bought me some more leds, so im good for now lol as long as these dont burn. maybe if my works out my dad will need some and then ill get a hold of you bout them.

Well got the leds in the mail today and a attached them with the adhesive just now, how long do i have to wait before soldering the lights and running it. i got the articsilver adhesive

[2pairs]

The arctic silver web site says it depends on several things temp is the biggest. I have found after 1 hr it is ok to handle but carefully so don't bang them. I always solder the LED's first it is easier but after 1 hr I fire them up for about 15 to 20 minutes and the heat will finish the cure time.

[Corvette Reefer]

The leds all on, letting it cure
http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/jordan_arnett/NEwledlight001.jpg

test! they worked! ohhh yeaaaa

On the tank! i love the way it looks personally i like the shot lighting thats why i did it, i think it looks good.
http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/jordan_arnett/NEwledlight006.jpg

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/jordan_arnett/NEwledlight003.jpg

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/jordan_arnett/NEwledlight004.jpg

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/jordan_arnett/NEwledlight005.jpg

[Mike]

Looks fantastic bro

[Sir Patrick]

I like the lighting color as well- cant wait to see it in person!!!

[2pairs]

Looks good, glad it worked out for you.
You might want to lower your frag rack for a wile.

[Corvette Reefer]

and heres with the optics off, i think im gona play around with them to see what i can do to really make it look nice, maybe 2 on blue and 2 on the middle whites idk yet


2842

[shawnadler]

I just skimmed your post/replies and am about to start a 75gal build with a custom prop tank in the sump and am planning to build my own LED lighting for the whole tank. But I was a bit worried about the long term use on corals. Such as would it provide enough PAR and such to feed the need... So I was wondering how well your corals seem to be doing now that it's been a few weeks? Thanks in advance!