The End of 2-Part

[CalmSeasQuest]

Out with the old...
http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy141/tconwell/2011-06-04110853.jpg

And in with the new...
http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy141/tconwell/2011-06-03220435.jpg

I've always dosed 2-part or 3-part (+MAG) on all of my tanks (also called the "balling method") first using b-Ionic, then later BRS. It has worked well for me over many years. The reasons I'm now making the jump to a CA Rx (espcially on a smaller gallonage system) is,

Salinity creep due to large dosing amounts in a small water volume system
Anticipation of a larger build which makes operating a Ca Rx much more economical over time than a dosing regime.

With a larger system, although more expensive initially, a CA Rx can operate at lower costs than most any other CA/ALK supplementation scheme. Back in 2003 Randy Holmes-Farly wrote a great article comparing the various CA/ALK supplementation methods (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/2/chemistry) and their associated costs. I'd strongly recommend reviewing prior to making the dosing vs. reactor decision.

The equipment I chose was rather expensive, but I view it as a one-time investment - and as I travel a lot, I wanted the most reliable solution possible. I also went with a digital regulator as finite control is critical in such a small tank. There are many less expensive options, including a lot of used equipment. That said, based on my research and needs - here's what I purchased,

GEO 612 (http://premiumaquatics.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PA&Product_Code=PA-GEO612&Category_Code=)
Electronic CO2 Regulator (http://www.aquariumplants.com/CarbonDoser_Electronic_Co2_Regulator_p/co2.htm)
Tropic Eden Course Ca Rx Media (http://premiumaquatics.com/aquatic-supplies/TE-TECRMX.html)
APEX PM1 (http://premiumaquatics.com/aquatic-supplies/NEP-PM1.html) (To support the second pH probe needed to monitor effluent pH.)
Lab Grade pH Probe (http://premiumaquatics.com/aquatic-supplies/NEP-PRBH.html)
AquaLifter (http://premiumaquatics.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PA&Product_Code=TA-AQUALIFTERPUMP&Category_Code=)

I'll continue dosing Kalk in my ATO to help support pH and for the rumored additional benefit of precipitating out phosphates.

Still waiting on the AquariumPlants CarbonDoser digital regulator and have to grab a 5# CO2 cylinder (which should fit nicely in the Frag tank cabinet beside the Geo.) As this is my first Ca Rx install and I'll be "learning as I go", I thought I'd share the journey :big_grin:

[jimsflies]

Awesome...looking forward to seeing how you like it versus the old method.

[binford4000]

you'll like the 612,I use to run one.Money well spent tho I personally disagree about the expese of operation on a larger system vs 2 part.I will admit it is a much simplar way to maintain needed levels.You might want to get a bigger bottle 5# tanks are a pain and you'll find every time you change the small tank it will throw things for a loop as well as media level's,I have been leaning to going back to a reactor also just due to time that I have available to mess around with mixing and testing.It seems when I ran a reactor I had more time to enjoy then tinkering

If you don't mind can you throw in the programing experience for the apex moduale.This is the main reason I haven't gone back to a reactor.Still scratching my head with that vdm LOL I'll be following this one

[schminksbro]

I love my GEO 618. A much overlooked aspect of a Cal RX vs Two Part is that the Cal RX is dosing trace elements that corals took in to the skeletons while growing under natural conditions. Elements such as strontium are replenished in natural levels.

[CalmSeasQuest]

you'll like the 612,I use to run one.Money well spent tho I personally disagree about the expese of operation on a larger system vs 2 part.I will admit it is a much simplar way to maintain needed levels.You might want to get a bigger bottle 5# tanks are a pain and you'll find every time you change the small tank it will throw things for a loop as well as media level's,I have been leaning to going back to a reactor also just due to time that I have available to mess around with mixing and testing.It seems when I ran a reactor I had more time to enjoy then tinkering

If you don't mind can you throw in the programing experience for the apex moduale.This is the main reason I haven't gone back to a reactor.Still scratching my head with that vdm LOL I'll be following this one

Thanks Chuck,

I agree with the CO2 bottle recommendations, I'm considering the 5# bottle only because it will fit into existing cabinetry. All things considered, I'd prefer to go with a 10#. One mitigating factor is that with only ~50 gallons in this system, I anticipate very low CO2 utilization, so even with a 5# bottle, it should still last many months. I'm also hoping the digital regulator will reduce the "re-dial" in struggles with bottle changes. Another decision - buy and fill or swap. There's an AirGas store next to my office in Wixom that stocks both 5# and 10# bottles for swapping but require owned bottles to be left overnight. I'd prefer to own, but have to deal with the overnight fills and hydrostatic testing. More thinking required :)

I'll include all the Apex coding and adjustments - Programming should be simple On/Off commands, all pH based. Control of the Geo will be the Apex controlling the CO2 gas solenoid via an effluent pH probe connected to a second PM1 module. Failsafe will be the primary pH probe sensing tank pH and turning off the CO2 if tank pH drops below accepted levels (effluent and tank pH limits yet to be determined.)


I love my GEO 618. A much overlooked aspect of a Cal RX vs Two Part is that the Cal RX is dosing trace elements that corals took in to the skeletons while growing under natural conditions. Elements such as strontium are replenished in natural levels.

Great point Andy! I've read it's difficult to maintain Mg using just a CaRx. I know many add Dolomite, but as I understand it, Dolomite requires a lower pH to dissolve. I'm curious to see how much Mg is contributed by the CaRx and how much Mg supplementation will be required. I'll probably use a left over BRS dosing pump to handle the Mg additions once defined.

Another consideration - CA Media. I went with Tropic Eden Course based on recommendations from Jeremy at Premium Aquatics (supposed to be cleaner than ARM while also containing very low phosphates.)

[CalmSeasQuest]

I finally had some time to get the GEO612 installed and begin the tuning process. The 612 fits (albeit snugly) into the cabinet of my Frag tank. Once I remove the dosing pumps, the CO2 tank should also fit directly behind it. The 612 is fed by an Aqua Lifter pump (220ml/min) hidden from view by the LED controller on the top shelf. The filter is visible in the top-left of the photo. The 2-part will be weaned off and removed once the CaRx is dialed in.

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy141/tconwell/CaRx/GEO612TempInstall.jpg


Here you can see the Tropic Marin Calcium media. It consists of course pieces of coral and shell. I was very impressed at how clean the media was. It required no rinsing and had just a faint smell of the ocean.

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy141/tconwell/CaRx/TropicMarinMedia.jpg


Here's the 5lb CO2 canister fitted with the CarbonDoser electronic regulator. I ended up purchasing one from a local AirGas outlet (about $80 with $12 refills.) It's initially set for 3lbs and 8 bubbles per minute. This should provide an effluent pH of ~6.9 which I'll be using as a starting point.

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy141/tconwell/CaRx/CarbonDoserReg.jpg


Pardon the messy sump - The intake for the 612 is the blue line visible in the far-right back section of the sump and draws from the GFO/GAC discharge area (pH seems lower in this areas for reasons I do not understand.)

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy141/tconwell/CaRx/612Sump.jpg


The effluent discharge (left-front) is routed to the sump return area and is initially set for 40 drops/min. This provides a turbulent, well-aerated area that also feeds the skimmer to drive out any remaining CO2 and limit any pH drop.

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy141/tconwell/CaRx/EffluentDischarge.jpg


Tuning a CaRx means lots of ALK testing. I'm using a Hanna755 which provides accurate results in about 60 seconds.

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy141/tconwell/CaRx/HI755.jpg


First impressions -


The GEO is a very well built device with quality fittings. Assembly was easy with no leaks.

The AquariumPlants electronic regulator is wonderful. You simply set the dial to the desired bubble count and forget it - it's steady as a rock.

I had to calibrate the pH probe using 7 and 10 pH calibration fluids. It's recommended that 4 and 10 be used. I've ordered the 4 calibration fluid and will recalibrate once received. Till then, I'll be conservative with the effluent settings.

So far, after 12 hours of running I've detected no pH drop in the tank :)

I'm initially targeting 10dKh and 440CA. It will take a bit to get settings finalized as I wean off 2-part dosing.

For those interested here are the initial Apex settings....

CO2CaRx
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If pHCaRx > 06.89 Then ON
Defer 010:00 Then ON

CaRxCirc
Fallback ON
Set ON

CaRxFeed
Fallback OFF
Set ON
If pH < 07.90 Then OFF

[CalmSeasQuest]

Day 3 and the dialing on of the reactor is going well. As of this morning I've officially kicked the 2-part habit and shut down the dosing pumps although I'll probably restart one of them for Mg dosing.

Thus far the low pH effluent hasn't impacted tank pH. I attribute this to the efficient use of CO2 by the GEO, and discharging the effluent into the return section of the sump just before the skimmer (I'm also running a CO2 scrubber that feeds the skimmer.) In theory, that should drive off any excess CO2. I do expect some lowering of pH due to ceasing the 2-part dosing (specifically the ALK component), but there's room for a slight decrease in pH.

The Apex's ability to track CaRxpH in real time and the dial-it-and-forget-it Carbon doser regulator make the setup process relatively simple. Even the Alk testing is easy and takes only about 60 seconds with the Hanna 755. Here's a graph from the Apex showing the initial setup and trends...

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy141/tconwell/CaRx/CaRx_Tuning.jpg

At 10 BPM @ 2.5PSI and 20ml/min effluent the reactor maintains ~6.65 pH without the Apex having to cycle the CO2 solenoid. Here are the test values so far...

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy141/tconwell/CaRx/CaRx_Initial_Tuning.jpg


It's obviously very early in the process and I'm sure there will be lots of "tweaking" ahead, but so far I'm very pleased with the GEO.

[Flynnstone]

[i almost have the exact same set-up. i have found that the effluent controll valve would vary from time to time. i corrected this by using the same filter that you have on the aqua lifter. i installed it on the line directly prior to the valve. it has been rock solid since.

[CalmSeasQuest]

The last 6 months has been very educational. I've encountered some problems (hopefully soon resolved) and learned that running a CaRx on a small tank requires much more precision than on a typical larger build. Here's the rundown,

My 612 suffers from a small air leak. It's drawing enough air that if I didn't bleed the reactor (slightly loosening the pH probe holder and allowing gas to exit) the circulation pump would fail after a few days. It's taken months to get it nailed down. Through the process of elimination, it appears to be somewhere in the manifold. George (GEO) has agreed to ship me a replacement manifold - I'll post the results once received and installed.

While the Aqualifter worked well, I found that I was unable to get the precision needed- even using a high quality needle valve. I run the reactor at 6.45pH @ 25mL/Min (30 bubbles/min @ 2PSI.) This maintains a steady 10.7 ALK and 440 Ca (I've tested virtually every day at 7am using a Hannah 755 for the past 4 months.) While the Carbon Doser regulator allows for the precise bubble count / reactor pH - Because my water volume is so small, even tiny changes in flow left unchecked would result in large ALK swings. I simply wasn't able to maintain an exact-enough flow rate using a needle valve.

My solution was the installation of a Cole Parmer 7553-80 Masterflex pump and variable controller fitted with a 77200-60 Easy Load II pump head. Using L/S 180 Norprene tubing, I'm able to dial in exactly 25mL / min output using about 1 RPM on the pump (dead silent.) This combination allows me to maintain the exact settings desired, with virtually no variation (+- .01 reactor pH and the ability to eliminate regulator solenoid cycling.) It also provides the flexibility to control output from 0.06 to 2300 mL/min by increasing pump RPM (turning a dial for 1 to 600 rpm) and using different diameter tubing.

Constant use peristaltic pumps are not cheap (usually available for a fraction of their retail price on eBay), but in my opinion, are the single best option for feeding a CaRx - especially when utilized on smaller systems. I'll never use anything else.

One other recommendation - For my heavily SPS stocked tank, maintaining pH with a CaRx is tough and requires the use of Kalk. I use a CO2 scrubber and Kalk saturated ATO, a reverse-lit sump/fuge and run the CaRx effluent into a turbulent area just upstream of the Skimmer to aid in degassing any remaining CO2. Even with these steps, my diurnal pH swings average 7.85~8.0 (tanks are in a living room averaging ~550ppm CO2.) While certainly not ideal, my tanks are doing very well at these lower pH levels. That said, I would not be able to maintain acceptable pH levels without the Kalk.

[schminksbro]

You should try to drip your effluent into a cup of aragonite and let it overflow into your sump. This will help to bleed off excess CO2 and raise your Ph.

[rosebud161616]

Can you explain what you mean by:


I run the reactor at 6.45pH @ 25mL/Min (30 bubbles/min @ 2PSI.)

We also have a GEO calcium reactor we picked up used, but have yet to actually set it up. I need to research more. I feel like there is still so much I don't know, but your thread helps a lot. I just don't quite understand what the different settings are. I assume the bubbles/min is the rate that it drips out? The PSI has something to do with the amount of CO2 pumped in?

[CalmSeasQuest]

Can you explain what you mean by:



We also have a GEO calcium reactor we picked up used, but have yet to actually set it up. I need to research more. I feel like there is still so much I don't know, but your thread helps a lot. I just don't quite understand what the different settings are. I assume the bubbles/min is the rate that it drips out? The PSI has something to do with the amount of CO2 pumped in?

There are 2 variables in dialing in a reactor - Effluent pH and effluent flow. They are directly proportional - at a given CO2 setting, pH will increase with increased flow through the reactor.

pH is controlled by both the amount of CO2 allowed to enter the reactor and the effluent flow rate.

You can control the amount of CO2 in 2 ways - by changing the bubble count or changing the size of the size of the bubbles.

Bubbles/Min is the rate at which CO2 (bubbles) are allowed to enter the reactor.

Bubble size is controlled by adjusting the PSI on low pressure side of the regulator. I've found that I need at least 1.5 PSI to overcome the check valve.

[CalmSeasQuest]

You should try to drip your effluent into a cup of aragonite and let it overflow into your sump. This will help to bleed off excess CO2 and raise your Ph.

Thanks Andy - I'll give it a try.

I'm not sure how much additional degassing is possible. I've tried allowing the effluent to drip into a water column containing an air stone fed by a CO2 scrubber just upstream of the skimmer, which is also fed by zero CO2 air from the scrubber with very little change - but it's certainly worth a try.

[CalmSeasQuest]

You should try to drip your effluent into a cup of aragonite and let it overflow into your sump. This will help to bleed off excess CO2 and raise your Ph.

This change was worth a .15 pH increase :)

What's surprising is I had tried a few different things before including using zero Co2 air from my CO2 scrubber and a very large air stone with very limited success. Just goes to show the simplest solution is often the best.

I used a refillable BRS media canister filled 2/3rds with Oolite and topped with CaRx media - Simple and effective.

Thanks Andy!

[CalmSeasQuest]

Finally...

It took months, but I finally found and resolved the air leak. Turns out it was not in the CaRx manifold, but in the Carbon Doser regulator (I think the low pressure gauge had a tiny leak.) Aquatic Plants advance shipped a replacement and voila...no more air :)

This setup is now running perfectly, I couldn't be happier with it. The GEO 612 / Carbon Doser / Cole Parmer combination makes running a reactor on smaller tanks very simple.

[CalmSeasQuest]

I've been asked to provide photos of previously when the system was on 2-part for comparison to it's current SPS load now using the CaRx. First let me apologize for my lack of photo skills...

Here's the GEO 612 sitting beside the 7 gallon ATO bucket containing RO/DI super-saturated with Kalk (140mL vinegar/7 gallons.) The Cole-Parmer peristaltic pump and controller are directly above and the to the left of the 612. The 5lb CO2 tank and Aquarium Plants Carbon Doser regulator sit behind the 612. All of this is located in the cabinet under the FT.

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy141/tconwell/CaRx/2012-05-070953.jpg

Here is the system maintained using 2-part.. This photo was taken about a year ago.
http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy141/tconwell/AI44_100_MXS100.jpg

Here it is currently with the calcium reactor. Sorry for the lack of color, it's difficult to tell much detail as the AI LEDs were still in the sunrise mode when I snapped these photos.
http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy141/tconwell/CaRx/DSC_2850.jpg

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy141/tconwell/CaRx/DSC_2855.jpg

The DT contains 3 large Monti Caps (left rear corner) that grow so quickly as to require "pruning" every couple of months. There are also 2 clams, a large Squamosa (bottom right) and a medium Maxima (top right.) This is in addition to the ~200+ Acro and Acan Frags in the FT. FWIW, based on the growth of the SPS, I would estimate the Alk and Ca demands to be much greater than when the system was maintained using 2 part.

Wow, In comparing these photos, I just realized how much the Maxima and especially the Squamosa has grown in the last year.

[CalmSeasQuest]

It appears the addition of 10% Dolomite (ZeoMag) to the GEO 612 is helping support Mg levels at ~1350. Prior to adding the ZeoMAg, with ~30% monthly water changes (RC), I was dosing 200~300mL BRS Mg solution monthly. No additional MG was required this month.

I'm glad to see signs that the ZeoMAg is dissolving - I was concerned that the 6.68pH that I run the reactor at might not be low enough for the ZeoMAg. I'll wait and see what happens next month before drawing any conclusions.

[CalmSeasQuest]

It looks like the ZeoMAg is working. This morning's Mag test showed 1650, with only normal water changes. I'm especially impressed as I've added quite a few new Frags in the past month and the 612 is keeping up just fine @ 6.68 pH.

[MizTanks]

Ummmm yea ok....I totally understand :stupidme::jester: