Planning New System

[creefer]

So I have recently decided that I never should have gone with an AIO in an effort to save money when I set up my tank. Don't get me wrong, I like it a lot, it's relatively healthy, and has been a great starting point for me. I now want to establish a system with a sump however I have limited room to do so, which partially drove the decision to the AIO.

I'm planning a new system right now that will be 36" long and have a width of somewhere between 18"-24" and be no deeper than 16". I really like the look of the shallower tanks and I only have room for a 36" long tank. I'm also pretty well set on using a coast to coast external overflow "Bean" style. Based on how I built the house I'm in, I'm somewhat limited. A larger tank would require some structural reinforcement and movement of walls that the wife is simply not going to allow. Right now, I'm pretty well set on the equipment. The tank will be rimless, I'm getting a new skimmer soon, and have a BRS reactor running carbon and GFO and a separate TLF reactor that I plan on using for biopellets. The only variable for me now is lighting. I know for sure that I want to do LED. I'm considering either a DIY LED set up or looking into the Kessil fixtures.....not sure yet. The intent is for a mixed reef, likely SPS dominated.

Equipment that I have that will be used in this build:

RKL with temp and pH probe.
Vortech MP10
Tunze 6045 (not controllable)


All other equipment will be either new, or purchased used. I plan on having a sump with fuge so I can have a growth spot for pods with the intent of eventually having pod dependent fish once the tank matures. Most rock will be new but seeded with rock from my current tank.

So, for the members of CR, what are your recommendations considering the tank sizes I'm thinking of? Does anyone have anything that they wish they had done when they set up their tanks? Or, does anyone have things that they have done that they regret? Does anyone have any comments regarding lighting, DIY vs. a purchased fixture? Does anyone have any thoughts about the tank footprints I'm considering?

This build will take time. My wife and I are expecting a second child at the end of the year and have some other financial commitments, so I will slowly acquire equipment to make this happen, but it must be right. I need it to be the best it can be because it's all I'll be able to have.

[Sir Patrick]

Sounds like a good start.

In breeder tanks, I have always been a huge fan of 18" to 20" tall. Gives some height, without being too much, for fish to swim and head room for aquascaping. Every 40 I have set up was great for a while, but then always wished I had a little more height to expand a little. Anything over 22" ended up just looking too tall.

Looking forward to seeing this one come together.

[cephalotus]

36x24x16 would be sweet.I would deffinately go with 24.

[iyachtuxivm]

Sounds like a good start.

In breeder tanks, I have always been a huge fan of 18" to 20" tall. Gives some height, without being too much, for fish to swim and head room for aquascaping. Every 40 I have set up was great for a while, but then always wished I had a little more height to expand a little. Anything over 22" ended up just looking too tall.

Looking forward to seeing this one come together.

+1 Shallow tanks are cool but once everything starts growing in you are going to be sad that you didnt go a little deeper. 36x24x20 would be really nice.

[creefer]

Great points from all. More than likely I'll end up with an 18" tall tank. It's going to take a while to pull this one together. If I go with a 36 x 24 as I would like, the tank is going to be a bit spendy. If I stick with a traditional breeder footprint, It make make better financial sense.

[larryandlaura]

Great choice on a breeder. 36x24x18 is the shallowest I would go personally. Who is building your tank?

[bluwc]

Your defantly going to want a24 wide tank because the more room you have on the sand bed the happier you'll be. I would personally have the tank drilled vs a hob overflow. great lakes makes awesome rimless ones and I hope you're planning a build thread

[creefer]

Great choice on a breeder. 36x24x18 is the shallowest I would go personally. Who is building your tank?

Not sure who will build the tank yet. I have contacted Great Lakes and they told me they don't offer custom sizes??? Thought that was strange.


Your defantly going to want a24 wide tank because the more room you have on the sand bed the happier you'll be. I would personally have the tank drilled vs a hob overflow. great lakes makes awesome rimless ones and I hope you're planning a build thread

Most certainly will be a drilled tank, but I'm considering an external overflow, not an HOB. So the rear panel of the tank will be 1" lower than the front. It will then drain into a 4" x 4" external box that will have the drain bulkheads drilled into it. I'm planning this like the Bean Animal System like this (http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx) but it will be outside the tank footprint to maximize my space. I would love a 24" wide tank but need to take more measurements of the location where the tank will go. I may be limited to 18" or 20" in width based on the type of overflow I'm considering. I don't want to see any plumbing in the tank at all and it will be a rimless open top tank so I need the "sex" appeal of that.

[larryandlaura]

Not sure who will build the tank yet. I have contacted Great Lakes and they told me they don't offer custom sizes??? Thought that was strange.



Most certainly will be a drilled tank, but I'm considering an external overflow, not an HOB. So the rear panel of the tank will be 1" lower than the front. It will then drain into a 4" x 4" external box that will have the drain bulkheads drilled into it. I'm planning this like the Bean Animal System like this (http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx) but it will be outside the tank footprint to maximize my space. I would love a 24" wide tank but need to take more measurements of the location where the tank will go. I may be limited to 18" or 20" in width based on the type of overflow I'm considering. I don't want to see any plumbing in the tank at all and it will be a rimless open top tank so I need the "sex" appeal of that.

Lol get your sex appeal! Great Lakes does custom cuts. I have bought three tanks from them and I will never buy from any where else again. Steve takes great care of his customers.

[creefer]

Lol get your sex appeal! Great Lakes does custom cuts. I have bought three tanks from them and I will never buy from any where else again. Steve takes great care of his customers.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll have to give him a call. I'm going to start sketching the system up soon. Winter weather is coming, as is a new born, so I'll have some time to think about it....I hope....

[Sir Patrick]

You will have plenty of time to think.....acting is another deal all together!

Keep thinking, and keep us posted- and learn to type one handed. I got pretty good at typing one handed a year ago.....

[creefer]

You will have plenty of time to think.....acting is another deal all together!

Keep thinking, and keep us posted- and learn to type one handed. I got pretty good at typing one handed a year ago.....
That's the plan. I got good a one handed typing about 3 years ago...hope I didn't forget much.

I intend to plan quite a bit here. This needs to be done right because it will be the largest tank I'll be able to have in this house. There's really only one spot for it and that makes it all the more important that it's well planned and done right. I will get a build thread going when I'm ready to do so, but for now I'm going to use this thread as a means to share ideas and get opinions.

I'm going to call Steve at great lakes and start planning the glass part of this system. I plan on sketching something up and sending it to him for pricing.

[larryandlaura]

Glad you are going to Great Lakes for your tank!

[creefer]

I'm going to keep all options open. Talking with Steve will help I think.

[creefer]

Took some measurements of the area in which the tank would be located. I'm kind of limited. Looks like a standard 40B is all I can fit in the location I want to put the tank. A 24" wide tank would be great but it's not going to happen where it is.

Now.....I would like a rimless.....bad....but finances may dictate a traditional 40B.

[Sir Patrick]

Took some measurements of the area in which the tank would be located. I'm kind of limited. Looks like a standard 40B is all I can fit in the location I want to put the tank. A 24" wide tank would be great but it's not going to happen where it is.

Now.....I would like a rimless.....bad....but finances may dictate a traditional 40B.
I have a 50B in my garage, almost brand new. Used it for like 3 months. Baught it brand new at the fish doctors. I would be happy to sell it. Think its 18" tall. Only 2" taller than the 40B.

[creefer]

I have a 50B in my garage, almost brand new. Used it for like 3 months. Baught it brand new at the fish doctors. I would be happy to sell it. Think its 18" tall. Only 2" taller than the 40B.

I think I might be interested in that....sending PM.

[larryandlaura]

Wow you are moving along fairly quick on this let us know if you get the 50 breeder.

[creefer]

Wow you are moving along fairly quick on this let us know if you get the 50 breeder.

Will do. I'll slowly acquire equipment for the build. The build is going to take some time. I need to decide on lighting and costs of such and then decide what to do with the Solana. If I go this route.....its looking more and more like the Solana will have to be sold after livestock transfer.

[larryandlaura]

What about running the Soalna as a frag tank?

[creefer]

What about running the Soalna as a frag tank?

I have been thinking about doing that but I'm not sure where to put it. I have an idea but I don't know if the wife will buy it. I think I can pull it off if I do it correctly but I don't know. Right now, I'm more concerned with properly planning the new system. The intent is for SPS dominated in the new system, but my love for LPS is undying. I have a couple key LPS pieces that are growing well that I want to keep and ultimately frag for a few people and that alone makes me want to keep the solana. It could be changed around a bit to support SPS frags and be an LPS dominant tank. Time will tell.

[creefer]

LIGHTING!

What to do...

Right now, I run my Solana with Maxspect LED. I really like what LED has to offer but I can't help but think that running the new SPS dominant system with T5 would be sweet! I can't stop thinking about it but at the same time, the efficiency of LED coupled with a limited need for replacement diodes is very attractive. I'm looking for opinions on lighting for the new system. If I go T5, it will be a 6 lamp fixture. If I go LED, I'm not sure WTH to do.

Thoughts??

[larryandlaura]

Troy he's killer growth with Leds. I get great growth with T5's. I like the color of the T5's better. However over my frag tank I will be running Leds.

[creefer]

Troy he's killer growth with Leds. I get great growth with T5's. I like the color of the T5's better. However over my frag tank I will be running Leds.

I get decent growth out of my LED as well but I can't help but think about T5. I like them a lot and like the color flexibility. I know that every 8 months I'll be buying bulbs, but it's hard not to look at T5 when the initial cost of a good LED system for a 36" long tank is as high as it is. I've also been thinking of going DIY LED on this new system but I'm not yet convinced that's the way to go either. You still loose some of the flexibility offered in the more expensive manufactured fixtures.

If I go T5 I'm going with a 6 lamp system, that much I know for sure. I'll likely do either a Tek fixture or a retrofit and build a canopy that I can hang from the tank. Also, I'm waiting on pricing for a 40B rimless with starfire front glass. I'm keeping my fingers crossed on the pricing!

[larryandlaura]

Nice I hope yo get a deal! I change my T5 bulbs once a year.

[creefer]

Me too. I really like the flexibility of T5's. Then if I have a 6 lamp fixture I dump $120 / year on lamps whereas if I go LED, I pay for the additional up-front costs of the fixture in 5 years. Kind of a tough decision from that standpoint.

[larryandlaura]

Yeah I love my T5's. The colors really pop and I have been using them for years. Also with T5's you can change up your spectrums. Oh and aquaticlife makes a killer fixture, just something to look into.

[bluwc]

I'm still a LED guy, I have T5s and get no where near the color as I do on my cube, not to mention the growth

[creefer]

Yeah I love my T5's. The colors really pop and I have been using them for years. Also with T5's you can change up your spectrums. Oh and aquaticlife makes a killer fixture, just something to look into.

That's one of the things that I like about T5. I'm a fan of the ATI or TEK and have not really looked at the aquatic life fixtures. Do they offer a 6 lamp fixture?? I'll have to do some searching.


I'm still a LED guy, I have T5s and get no where near the color as I do on my cube, not to mention the growth

I started in this hobby only a year ago and started with LED. I started with a maxspect G2-110W fixture. It lacks the flexibility of your Solaris or any of the other more expensive LED systems available (AI, Ecotech Radion, Vertex Illuminata, etc.) so having any level of color other than all blue @ 100%, all white @ 100%, or all white and all blue @ 100% is not possible. You can however swap out the individual LED but that's not exactly the kind of flexibility I want.

The Solaris that you have is a bad a$$ fixture. The Vertex Illuminata is also pretty bad, but cost prohibitive. I'm interested to see the new AI Phoenix when it's released. It's going to be priced higher than the SOL but is said to be a better fixture. I also like the new Maxspect Mazzara but it's pretty spendy too. While I think LED is certainly the future of the hobby, I'm simply not sure what I'll do yet. I also have not ruled out a DIY build on the fixture. It's something that I would enjoy doing but with a newborn coming at the end of the year or beginning of 2012, I'm likely not going to have time for that.

[larryandlaura]

Aquaticlife does make a 6 bulb fixture.

[creefer]

Aquaticlife does make a 6 bulb fixture.

I checked it out last night. Looks like a nice fixture at a decent price point.

[larryandlaura]

I checked it out last night. Looks like a nice fixture at a decent price point.

Yeah I love mine one cord and a timer! They also are completely rebuildable.

[creefer]

Yeah I love mine one cord and a timer! They also are completely rebuildable.

Yeah....that's a nice fixture for sure. The price is not bad either. The single cord and built in timer combined with the ability to easily rebuild makes it very attractive.

[creefer]

I think I have found a tank. I can get my hands on a 36 x 18 x 16 rimless with starfire front panel for $120. I think I'm going to order it next week.....that being said....anyone interested in a Solana??

[larryandlaura]

Awesome glad you found a tank!

[creefer]

Awesome glad you found a tank!
Thanks! Now all I have to do is starting checking more things off the list!

[Sir Patrick]

I think I have found a tank. I can get my hands on a 36 x 18 x 16 rimless with starfire front panel for $120. I think I'm going to order it next week.....that being said....anyone interested in a Solana??

That is a deal of a tank!!

[creefer]

That's what I was thought too

[creefer]

New tank has been ordered! I expect to take delivery this weekend. Now....all I need is a sump, return pump, some plumbing, and a stand....

[larryandlaura]

What tank did you get? Specs and gear please.

[creefer]

I ordered a small tank. Rimless 36 x 18 x 16 with starfire front panel. Not much larger than what I have now, but a much better footprint and....a system with a sump! Skimmer is in hand, but need a sump, plumbing, and a return. Will be using my maxspect LED for the short term. Not sure what I'll to for lighting.

[larryandlaura]

Awesome where did you get the tank from?

[Sir Patrick]

If ya need help w/ the plumbing- Give me a shout!

[creefer]

Awesome where did you get the tank from?

I ordered it from a small shop near my office. I think it's getting made by aquatic america or something like that.


If ya need help w/ the plumbing- Give me a shout!

I just may take you up on that offer, Chris. With the second expected between now and the 10th, I'll likely need a little assistance. The 10th is the scheduled C-section if he decides to stay in his nice warm home until then.

[creefer]

So I'm stumped a bit on the matter of an overflow. Keeping it quiet is a MUST for this tank. It's going in our living room and we have no tolerance for excessive waterfall sounds. I was thinking glass-holes may be the way to go for 3 reasons.

1. Only need to drill one hole.
2. They are claimed to be quiet.
3. It's a slim overflow that won't consume much of the footprint.

What worries me about the glass-holes is that there is no redundant overflow in the event of a clog which means a far greater potential for a tank overflow and that's not acceptable. So, that has brought me to the following options.

1. BeanAnimal style - There is an enormous thread on RC about this type of overflow. I really like the idea. It would require that I drill at a minimum of 3 holes, but would likely be 5 so I can have a return at each end of the tank. My only reservation outside of drilling 5 holes in a nice new tank is the space it would take up in the display. Remember, I'm only 36 x 18 x 16 so this style, assuming I did a 24" long internal overflow box, would consume a decent amount of space in the display. I would make it 24" x 4" x 4". While it is likely the most safe way to go, I'm not so sure that it will allow me to maintain the super clean look I'm shooting for with this tank.
2. Modified Herbie - Assuming that I don't drill the bottom of the tank, I have considered drilling 2 holes on one end of the rear panel of the tank; one low and one high. This would allow me to hide it with a piece of glass painted black on the inside of the overflow creating a corner overflow much like would be seen in a tank with a drilled bottom. Then, I would drill at least one other hole for the return. The drawback here is that the overflow would have no teeth and would need to be covered with acrylic with teeth cut into it.
3. Drill 2 holes side by side and put in a 4" x 4" box into the tank, likely on one end of the rear panel, thereby creating another "modified herbie" style overflow. Then, I would drill at least one other hole for the return. Again however I think this takes away from the "clean" look I'm going for.

So, considering the 4 options I'm contemplating, I'm looking for some opinions of more experienced reefers out there before I start drilling holes in my new tank.

[CalmSeasQuest]

I like the dimensions of your tank. If it's not too late, have the back of the tank notched for an external overflow and do a BeanAnimal. (that also is assuming you have enough room behind the tank.) That way you don't give up any internal space and still get all the benefits.

The BA delivers exactly what your looking for - dead silence with absolute safety.

[creefer]

Thanks, Tom. I have been considering what you recommend. I was not happy about the cost from my tank builder to do it though. I'm going to call a glass shop that we do work with to see if they are willing to do that for me. I agree, it's the best way to do what I want to do. Plus, we do a ton of business with this particular shop, so they may simply take care of me and charge me cost only, which would be sweet if they're willing to do what I need done.

[larryandlaura]

Glad you are going with that overflow! I've seen and heard the bean and its quiet. Talk to TM01 aka Todd. His overflow he modded is the quietest I've ever heard. Todd is always willing to help out with great ideas/help.

[creefer]

Thanks for the heads up, Larry. I'll shoot him a PM. Once I get all my stuff I'm going to start a build thread.

[creefer]

Stopped into Petco today for the $ / Gal sale and picked up a 10 gal to practice drilling on, a 20 H for my sump and another 40B in case I screw up the nice rimless I ordered.

Speaking of sumps, am I off in getting the 20H? Would I be better taking it back and getting a 20L?

[Tom@HaslettMI]

Stopped into Petco today for the $ / Gal sale and picked up a 10 gal to practice drilling on, a 20 H for my sump and another 40B in case I screw up the nice rimless I ordered.

Speaking of sumps, am I off in getting the 20H? Would I be better taking it back and getting a 20L?

I prefer the 20L myself. I had a 20H on my 50 breeder and when a seam started leaking I replaced it with a 20L. The long was easier to work in (shorter), and with a bigger footprint the refugium section could be bigger while still fitting the skimmer and return pump. On the flip side the 20H was much easier to get in (and out) of the stand. The long barely squeezed in there.

HTH,
Tom

[creefer]

I prefer the 20L myself. I had a 20H on my 50 breeder and when a seam started leaking I replaced it with a 20L. The long was easier to work in (shorter), and with a bigger footprint the refugium section could be bigger while still fitting the skimmer and return pump. On the flip side the 20H was much easier to get in (and out) of the stand. The long barely squeezed in there.

HTH,
Tom

This is exactly my concern. I'll be using a Bubble Magus NAC5e Skimmer on this sump, which is an HOB skimmer, so the 20H may simply have to work for me at least for the short term. I could still have a decent sized refugium in the 20H considering my skimmer chamber could be smaller. Ultimately, an upgraded skimmer would dictate the need for a 20L.

[creefer]

Ok....I had hoped to be able to post some pictures of my new tank however it arrived chipped and is being rebuilt. It's not in a condition that I would have accepted. Looks like I'll have it by the weekend.

[Sir Patrick]

Sorry to hear about the damaged goods!

[creefer]

Tank...Check
Sump...Partial Check (need to get baffels)
ATO.....Check
Stand....Check (working on refinishing)

All I need now is a light fixture, return pump, and some plumbing and this thing is a go. I'll get pics up when I pick up the tank this week.

[creefer]

Double post

[Sir Patrick]

Tank...Check
Sump...Partial Check (need to get baffels)
ATO.....Check
Stand....Check (working on refinishing)

All I need now is a light fixture, return pump, and some plumbing and this thing is a go. I'll get pics up when I pick up the tank this week.

The glass shop, downtown pinkney, across from mug-n-bopps, on the opposite corner, have great prices!

[creefer]

The glass shop, downtown pinkney, across from mug-n-bopps, on the opposite corner, have great prices!

Thanks! I plan on calling them as well as another shop by my office in Livonia that I do business with. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they may be able to notch the rear panel so I can implement a beananimal overflow.