CA, ALK, Mg=WTH?

[MizTanks]

Well for the past 2yrs I've been using the API to do all my testing. I've been dosing ESV 2 part daily at 7.5ml. Have never dosed Mag. ( I do have some though) With the API my Ca=440~Alk=7.8~Ph=8.2

I finally broke down and bought a new kit. RedSea Pro. A little more detailed for sure. Hopefully I'm reading the results right. If I am then my CA 500~alk 6.4~Mag 1100. Not anything like what the API test was telling me.

I stopped dosing for a couple of days~did 5g WC. Tested again with same results. So 3 days ago I started dosing ESV Alk (only) at 10ml to slowly raise it. Testing everyday~As of tonight Alk still hasn't raised above 6.4. Tonight I also started to dose Mag at 20ml.

What I was to know is...Am I dosing right amount to raise the Alk and Mag. And can the API really be that far off from the RedSea Pro?

[EMUreef]

Well for the past 2yrs I've been using the API to do all my testing. I've been dosing ESV 2 part daily at 7.5ml. Have never dosed Mag. ( I do have some though) With the API my Ca=440~Alk=7.8~Ph=8.2

I finally broke down and bought a new kit. RedSea Pro. A little more detailed for sure. Hopefully I'm reading the results right. If I am then my CA 500~alk 6.4~Mag 1100. Not anything like what the API test was telling me.

I stopped dosing for a couple of days~did 5g WC. Tested again with same results. So 3 days ago I started dosing ESV Alk (only) at 10ml to slowly raise it. Testing everyday~As of tonight Alk still hasn't raised above 6.4. Tonight I also started to dose Mag at 20ml.

What I was to know is...Am I dosing right amount to raise the Alk and Mag. And can the API really be that far off from the RedSea Pro?

-With your mag that low its hard to keep calc and alk where you want it, all three work in tandem together. So dosing alk is gonna really do you no good untill your mag is at a normal level. as far as how much to dose and what the right dose is, is hard to say. i would kick up mag to maybe 40ml, you can really dose up to 100ml of mag but with your size tank might just raise it really high really fast so 40ml might be good.

-Can your test kits be that different? yes, the api test could be bad/old. API has been known for having very sub par test kits.

[MyNemesis]

I agree with EMU Reef. Keeping magnesium a little high helps to keep the calcium where it needs to be which is essentially a "supersaturated" solution and helps to keep the carbonate hardness where it belongs. It is a delicate balance, so when you have the dosing regimen down, stick to it religiously. Magnesium should be 1100 - 1300 ppm (I keep mine at 1450 or so) and the Tech M helps control some nuisance algaes. Calcium between 350 to 450 ppm and 8 to 11 on the dKH. I also agree with your approach to bringing up your dKH. Dosing a little extra magnesium should help you get where you want more quickly.

[MizTanks]

Even though I was off reading the results...I wasn't off by much aside from the Ca which is actually 420~ My Alk is at 6.4. and Mag is 1320. So from what you's have said I actually don't need to dose Mag and continue to dose Alk at 10ml?

[MyNemesis]

Sounds like a plan, Jamie. It's too bad you don't have a local fish store like Preuss here in Lansing that does water testing for free. It is great to have a double check on test results and I am afraid I'm a bit spoiled. Most of the time I just go there for testing. Some of those tests are so hard to read anyway.

[MizTanks]

Sounds like a plan, Jamie. It's too bad you don't have a local fish store like Preuss here in Lansing that does water testing for free. It is great to have a double check on test results and I am afraid I'm a bit spoiled. Most of the time I just go there for testing. Some of those tests are so hard to read anyway.

Well I finally found an awesome sight where a guy does the test step by step and show's how to read them!! I've got it down pat now :highfive3: Our LFS us the API :duh:

[bluwc]

I just wish rk our someone would invent accurate probes for monitoring alk, ca, mg, sg, ph, etc....would make it just a lot easier on everyone. Hook them up to dosing pumps....ah how sweet that would be

[MyNemesis]

I think Hanna has an alkalinity test like the digital phosphate deal. Costs a little more cause you have to pay for the vial of reagent but a digital readout is great when you are trying to figure out how much blue there is or how purple something is.

[Sir Patrick]

I think Hanna has an alkalinity test like the digital phosphate deal. Costs a little more cause you have to pay for the vial of reagent but a digital readout is great when you are trying to figure out how much blue there is or how purple something is.

Its true- and about as close to simple as it gets!

---------- Post added at 01:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:28 AM ----------

Jaime-

It is unclear, after reading, what you are trying to do.

What alk and mag levels are you trying to maintain?

Dont worry about your calc levels right now, as long as they are in an acceptable level.

[binford4000]

Good advice John,I would get that mag up in the 1400 to 1500.Increaseing your mag will not hurt your corals and it helps keep your two part seperated for easier absorbtion for your corals,I would bring the alk up slowly.Alk is the measurement of the ability of the Ph to buffer so it's important to keep it up in atleast the 8 dkh area.I try to keep mine at the posted level of the salt mix so it will perform as advertised,Once ya get things leveled out resume your normal doaseing habits. Andrew Calfo writes allot about the test kit issue you experienced and it is very common to find extreme diffrences in the brands and how quickly they go bad.I find his recomendation of looking at the habitants and comparing the results to their apperance and behavior.If both are positive indicators stay with that brand I like the idea of the digitals tho and plan to get some to try em out.They work by measuring the clarity of the water sample after the reagent is added,So it has a base of the sample before and after so it should be more accurate then my old eyes LOL

[MizTanks]

I just needed to get my alk up from 6.4. After dosing the ALK part only at 10ml daily for the last 3 days, today it's now at 7 so I'm pleased. My Ca is at 440 and my Mag is at 1320. I'm now dosing Mag at 20ml daily. Will get it up to where ya'll sugguest 1400-1500. My Alk should reach 8 within the next 3 days. Then I'll continue with regular dosing per directions on the bottle at 1ml per 4g's of water. Which I estimate this to be around 7.5ml daily. Does this sound about right..or should I go a little higher in the dosing?

[bluwc]

I keep mine at 7. There are some who say 11 or 12 but when asked why, no one has ever been able to give an actual real response, everyone just beats around the bush with no coherent answer. If I remember correctly, it's like 7 in the ocean and I personally see no point in keeping it higher. I still get good growth

[MizTanks]

I've always managed to keep my alk around 8 so that's what I'm shooting for...but then again this was per the API test LOL~so for all I know it's could have been at 6.4 for the last 9 months. Everything is doing great though. I'm just wondering if the low alk has anything to do with the lack of colors in 2 of my 3 acros...1 looks pretty dang good color wise. All in all my main priority is balance!!!

[binford4000]

I'd like to chime in on the ocean level thing.First a definiton of what Alk and Ph is.Alkalinty is essentaly waters ability to neutralize acids and it's buffering capacity.Ph is the measurement of the concatration of hydrogen ions in water.How are these related is best discribed by the ranges.Pure water has a Ph level of 7.If the sample has a level of 1 to 7 it is considered acidic if the levels are between 7 and 14 it is refered to being basic or alkaline.Water with a high Ph but a low alkalinty is considered unstable.In this situation the Ph will quickly decline with the natural accumalation of organic acids.We use calcium chloride and sodium bicarbonate to adjust the calcium and alk levels via two part.Magnesium is a natural elment that keeps them from bonding together(we use magnisum chloride amd magnisum solfate as reefers) and allows for easier absorbtion of calcium by your corals and is also benifical for the color pigments in the skin of corals and has been found to help control nuisance algaes. OK,so now we are talking the oceans ability to buffer is normally read in a measurement of Alk in the range of 7 to 8 dkh and a Ph of 8.2 to 8.4 PH(this depends on the source) right? This is how it was explained to me by someone much smarter then me at Britewell.We use a synthetic salt mix that does it's best to match the oceans very complex mix of trace elements,buffers,nutrients and the list goes on.We have a a very limited voulme of water that does have a limited eco system to replenish these essential things so we need to supply foods,nutrients and trace elements by way of feeding,doaseing and water changes.So this leads to the alk answer that I personaly try to use which does not mean I'm a guru or even correct ( my offical disclaimer).It just make sense to me and have noticed better coloring and growth.The salt you use is an engineered chemical mix that when at it's best has the levels that are provided by the manufacter either by printed version on the bucket,box,bag or on their web site.I try to match the levels provided by them for this reason but do maintain higher levels of mag for other reasons as stated above.I like to keep to 8.2 Ph and an Alk of 10 dkh first because that's my salt manufactuer's preffered level for best performance and it is also the sweet spot for the levels discussed above.It's also important to note that raising the alk should be done slowly with a careful attention to your Ph levels.A jump in Ph of just 0.10 is a major change and very stressful to the inhabitants.I try to look at alk and Ph as simese twins who really need each other to survive. My fingers hurt now from typeing this much and my head hurts from trying to sound smart so I'm jumping off the soap box now. LOL Have a good holiday :jester: I hope this helps and makes sense to someone other then me

[MizTanks]

Well my ph (according to API) is 8.2 in the a.m. and 8.4 p.m. I expected a slight rise while raising my alk. I'll be keep watch :)

[binford4000]

Well my ph (according to API) is 8.2 in the a.m. and 8.4 p.m. I expected a slight rise while raising my alk. I'll be keep watch :)

that's a normal perfect slow swing during the light cycle.It would be a concern if the jump was above normal swing levels is what I am trying to say.

[rmalone]

Well put Binford!! That sums up the interaction of Alk and Ph pretty well. I for one don't believe it's a good idea to try and manipulate ph, it's a transient, ever changing number based on alkalinity and ambient co2 levels. Generally your far better off to manage the alk properly and let ph do it's thing. Miz your right to keep an eye on ph while raising alk, typically if you raise alk you'll see a short term rise in ph. People get into high alk issues when they chase ph because they raise alk, and the ph goes up, but 12hrs later ph has slipped back down so they dose again. So ph goes back up for a period of hours and then slips again, and so on. But the alk just keeps getting higher and higher because it's no where near as rapidly changing as ph.

[MizTanks]

Well I've never actually paid attention to my Ph :secret2: only started doing it due to me raising my alk and knowing this can cause a ph swing...just didn't want it to swing to much. So far it's all good :)
Alk=7.6~Ca=440~Mag=1320 Today I will once again start dosing equal amounts of 2 part at 7.5ml daily. The directions say 1ml per 4g of water. The Mag I think I'll just do 20ml weekly see how that goes. I just don't know my actual total water volume so I'm guesstimating here at 25g. How do they expect you to know the actual total water volume of your tank?
Anyways this is all a learning process for me. Thanks for all your help guys. I do believe I'm beginning to get the gist of it all. Slow and steady wins TOTM :)

[binford4000]

Well put Binford!! That sums up the interaction of Alk and Ph pretty well. I for one don't believe it's a good idea to try and manipulate ph, it's a transient, ever changing number based on alkalinity and ambient co2 levels. Generally your far better off to manage the alk properly and let ph do it's thing. Miz your right to keep an eye on ph while raising alk, typically if you raise alk you'll see a short term rise in ph. People get into high alk issues when they chase ph because they raise alk, and the ph goes up, but 12hrs later ph has slipped back down so they dose again. So ph goes back up for a period of hours and then slips again, and so on. But the alk just keeps getting higher and higher because it's no where near as rapidly changing as ph.

Thanks and you also make a very valid point also.I also do not try to adjust levels by Ph but it's important to understand the relationship of alk,cal which will effect Ph.To much of one and not enough of the other will get you a very unstable water column.Slow and easy always pay's as Miz say's.She brings a good point up about the total water volume,I personaly have weighed my rock then divided by 8 which is what water weighs and subtract that from my total water volume.It would be more accurate to calculate total volume but who really thinks of that when ya set up your new tank LOL Once things get leveled out is when it's time to really pay attention to the Ph.Keep doing what your doing Jamie it's all working good. :thumbsup:

[MizTanks]

I know I'm getting into the $$ end of dosing but...is there a simpler way to daily dosing then using the cup supplied? Those pumps are expensive :hypnotized:

I'm also noticing (I believe this is the reason) that due to me adding the additives via in front of one of my Koralias (highest flow area available) that it seems to be affecting the coraline growth on the end of my LR, farthest away from the pump, it's actually turning white :( Could the whiteness be the result of the additives coming into constant contact with the LR?

Hopefully sometime in the near future I'll be able to just add the 2part to my topoff water. I just bought a small aqualifter pump in hopes of making an ato :roll: No I don't know WTH I'm doing but I'm gonna try :)

[binford4000]

I know I'm getting into the $$ end of dosing but...is there a simpler way to daily dosing then using the cup supplied? Those pumps are expensive :hypnotized:

I'm also noticing (I believe this is the reason) that due to me adding the additives via in front of one of my Koralias (highest flow area available) that it seems to be affecting the coraline growth on the end of my LR, farthest away from the pump, it's actually turning white :( Could the whiteness be the result of the additives coming into constant contact with the LR?

Hopefully sometime in the near future I'll be able to just add the 2part to my topoff water. I just bought a small aqualifter pump in hopes of making an ato :roll: No I don't know WTH I'm doing but I'm gonna try :)


Your right doaseing by hand stinks.The doaser pumps are nice but they cost allot.My litermeter 3 cost over 5 clams.BRS sells cheaper ones but you need to buy a seperate controler for them.Try adding your 2 part to your sump and see if the coraline responds better,might help or add it in smaller volumes multiple times a day. :roll_eyes:

[Sir Patrick]

Great info guys!!

[MizTanks]

Your right doaseing by hand stinks.The doaser pumps are nice but they cost allot.My litermeter 3 cost over 5 clams.BRS sells cheaper ones but you need to buy a seperate controler for them.Try adding your 2 part to your sump and see if the coraline responds better,might help or add it in smaller volumes multiple times a day. :roll_eyes:

More then once a day?!!! Noooo! Lol I don't have a sump Chuck :) I'll figure something out.