7.5, water change, 6.7dhk. Should I adjust?

[Tom Toro]

I've been adding 60ml of Alk to my tank daily for about a week(slowly upped from 30ml in 5ml increments every 3days). I got the alk up to 7.5. It had been 22 days since I did a water change so I did one and my alk dipped to 6.7 while still dosing the 60ml. Should I adjust this up a little or keep it at 60ml hoping it comes back up to acceptable levels. I was trying to get to 8 slowly, but this is a setback. Ca and Mg are still off the charts on Salifert.

By the way, my salt is Oceanic with a specified makeup of:
500 ca
1500mg
7dkh alk

I need to change salts. I'm shooting myself in the foot with this stuff.

[TM01]

I would. :)

Sounds like you may have to adjust your alk levels of your WC.

[TM01]

double post :thumbsup:

[slapshot]

Tom, you need to change salt. That is way too low. I would take a water sample to Pet Connection or your local fish store and have it double checked. You could have Dent check it or bring it over here when you come over.

Assuming your readings are correct I would up it to 80 and see if you can't get it up a little faster. ( I did not mean that as it sounded. Lol) your calc. is high because your alk. Is low. Your corals can't absorb calc. when your alk is below 7. Time to move things along a little faster before your sps start RTNing.

Remember as you add SPS and as they grow the demand will increase in your tank. You should have to add more then you were when you started.

Don

[jimsflies]

Or verify with a another (maybe better) test kit before doing anything too drastic. Is your livestock looking bad?

[Tom Toro]

Tom, you need to change salt. That is way too low. I would take a water sample to Pet Connection or your local fish store and have it double checked. You could have Dent check it or bring it over here when you come over.

Assuming your readings are correct I would up it to 80 and see if you can't get it up a little faster. ( I did not mean that as it sounded. Lol) your calc. is high because your alk. Is low. Your corals can't absorb calc. when your alk is below 7. Time to move things along a little faster before your sps start RTNing.

Remember as you add SPS and as they grow the demand will increase in your tank. You should have to add more then you were when you started.

Don

LOL! I just got it. I'll kick it up to 80 tonight and check in a couple of days and yeah, I'm going to change to RC. I remember hearing that when you change salt, you need to do it slowly with a 20/80, 30/70, etc mixing of the two salts. Unless you think I can just switch.

I do have some good size colonies in there, so maybe they're drinking it up. Makes sense about the calcium not dropping cause of the low alk inhibiting the process.


Or verify with a another (maybe better) test kit before doing anything too drastic. Is your livestock looking bad?

I'm feeling pretty good about the results. I have an old Salifert test I was using and bought a brand new one about a month ago. Both tests give identical readings.

Fish look great, but corals, while polyp extension is good, colors are pretty dull. No tissue loss yet.

[slapshot]

It depends on how much of a WC you do. I would not mix the mixes. when I switched to tropic marin for awhile I just did smaller changes for the first couple. If your changing under 20 percent I can't see where it would matter. You will like RC. I went right back.

[schminksbro]

Actually alkalinity in the ocean is typically 6.5-7dkh so I wouldn't panic. Corals can calcify fine at that range. If your Ph is low then calcification will decrease or even cease. I would change to RC and try to get your alk around 8-8.5 dkh. It is also worth noting that bringing your alk up from 7-8 relatively quickly (over a couple of days) should't cause any problems. I would also check your magnesium.

[Tom Toro]

Thanks Andy. PH is typically between 8 and 8.1. Mag has been off the Salifert chart over 1500 as is Ca at 500+. Don talked me into changing to RC salt so that should help. I'm also dosing vodka and B7. I noticed in the years past when I raised too quickly on this regimen that I burned the tips of my sps.

p.s. that chalice I bought at your place is surviving nicely. Nice turquoise color with pink eyes. Had some good comments regarding it.



Actually alkalinity in the ocean is typically 6.5-7dkh so I wouldn't panic. Corals can calcify fine at that range. If your Ph is low then calcification will decrease or even cease. I would change to RC and try to get your alk around 8-8.5 dkh. It is also worth noting that bringing your alk up from 7-8 relatively quickly (over a couple of days) should't cause any problems. I would also check your magnesium.

[schminksbro]

If your running probiotics it is imperative that you keep your alk below 9dkh. I would recommend a quality kit such as Lamotte. At 9dkh many acro tips will burn. Get your alk around 8 and stable and calcium/magnesium will fall right into line. Then just keep it stable. Also if you use the carbon/bacteria to keep nutrients low but not at zero you run less risk of tip burn. I also used probiotics to allow myself to feed more as opposed to driving to ultra low nutrients. That will keep your corals growing, your colors rich, and your fish fat.

Thanks Andy. PH is typically between 8 and 8.1. Mag has been off the Salifert chart over 1500 as is Ca at 500+. Don talked me into changing to RC salt so that should help. I'm also dosing vodka and B7. I noticed in the years past when I raised too quickly on this regimen that I burned the tips of my sps.

p.s. that chalice I bought at your place is surviving nicely. Nice turquoise color with pink eyes. Had some good comments regarding it.

[Tom Toro]

Great advice! I do run probiotics so I can feed more and avoid the nuisance algae. I hated starving my fish to keep algae down. They're a lot happier now.

I'll be sure to monitor closely and keep it well under 9. 8 is where I'd like to be in a perfect world, just having trouble getting there. Initially that's why I chose Oceanic salt since the alk was at 7 out of the bag. Never thought I'd be in the 5 range. I've heard RC is at 11 out of the bag so I'll have to do smaller water changes more frequently to avoid spikes.

Thanks,
Tom



If your running probiotics it is imperative that you keep your alk below 9dkh. I would recommend a quality kit such as Lamotte. At 9dkh many acro tips will burn. Get your alk around 8 and stable and calcium/magnesium will fall right into line. Then just keep it stable. Also if you use the carbon/bacteria to keep nutrients low but not at zero you run less risk of tip burn. I also used probiotics to allow myself to feed more as opposed to driving to ultra low nutrients. That will keep your corals growing, your colors rich, and your fish fat.

[Tom Toro]

O.k. it's taking forever at 66ml per day to get the alk up so I'm taking two days to put in enough to take it from 7.3 to 8.1 in two days according to the brs calculator. I added 30 ml of the dry bicarbonate to a gallon of r/o and am using the doser to dose it by wednesday. If it's at 8.1(or near there) and I understand what Don's telling me, I'm going to:
.

1.leave it for 24 hours without dosing anything
2.Test it after 24 hours
3. Use the alk calculator to find out how much I need to add to bring it back
4. That's the amount I dose daily to keep it at 8.1

Test regularly since I'll be hopefully using calcium too now that it's able.

Right?

Also same thing with the 240g. I already brought it up to where I want it in two days and am leaving it until tonight at 9pm, test to see how much it used and then that's my number to dose.

Am I Close or am I missing something?

[slapshot]

O.k. it's taking forever at 66ml per day to get the alk up so I'm taking two days to put in enough to take it from 7.3 to 8.1 in two days according to the brs calculator. I added 30 ml of the dry bicarbonate to a gallon of r/o and am using the doser to dose it by wednesday. If it's at 8.1(or near there) and I understand what Don's telling me, I'm going to:
.

1.leave it for 24 hours without dosing anything
2.Test it after 24 hours
3. Use the alk calculator to find out how much I need to add to bring it back
4. That's the amount I dose daily to keep it at 8.1

Test regularly since I'll be hopefully using calcium too now that it's able.

Right?

Also same thing with the 240g. I already brought it up to where I want it in two days and am leaving it until tonight at 9pm, test to see how much it used and then that's my number to dose.

Am I Close or am I missing something?

You are right on!!

[Tom Toro]

Thanks Don! I appreciate you breaking this down for me. I'm used to letting the salt mix do it's job on water changes and figured I didn't need to dose. Especially since I've had some Kalk disasters. But, things are really turning around in my sps tank. Since it hit over 7, my polyp extension is amazing. growth on my stag weed is budding from the cut ends (where it was dead). My algae problem is waning too (except bryopsis), especially the brown plating algae and turf. Now my urchins are putting coral parts on their backs instead of algae plates. Not sure what the alk has to do with algae, but it's killing it(reducing phosphates?). I think I need to read up on this. What a difference! I'm sure once I change salt to RC, I'll have to be very careful and do small water changes while monitoring.

The 240 hit it's alk mark and 24hrs later it used up .5 dkh. BRS says I should add 285ml of recipe 1 per day to keep it there. Seems like a lot to put in everyday, but here I go. Ca and mg are still way up. PH is down on both tanks to 7.7 (just calibrated each monitor). I'm assuming it's cause I'm using the bicarbonate instead of the soda ash.

Any ideas on how to raise it to at least 8 or should I leave it alone?

[slapshot]

I'm glad to here that Tom, at this point i would leave it alone. I bet the lower PH is due to your house being closed up and your co2 levels rising. Those levels are acceptable. If you wanted to raise it with some Kalk you can do that but I would wait until you have the dosing down and running perfectly.

[Tom Toro]

I'm glad to here that Tom, at this point i would leave it alone. I bet the lower PH is due to your house being closed up and your co2 levels rising. Those levels are acceptable. If you wanted to raise it with some Kalk you can do that but I would wait until you have the dosing down and running perfectly.
Sounds good, Don. Only thing I am doing is cooking my bicarbonate of soda into soda ash. That should help from what I've read or at least not lower it.

[Tom Toro]

Sounds good, Don. Only thing I am doing is cooking my bicarbonate of soda into soda ash. That should help from what I've read or at least not lower it.
In a 24hr period my sps 180g setup went from 8.0 to 6.7. The calculator says I should add 137ml of soda ash recipe (2 1/8 cups per gallon of water) per day.

I'm setting my doser to pour 7ml 24 times a day into my turbulent overflow section of my sump.

Can this be right to dose this much a day? Anybody else dose this much (ratio) in their tank a day? I tested twice yesterday and twice today to make sure.

I was dosing 66 ml per day and it was steadily rising. The reef calculator says to increase this to 137ml per day to keep it at 8.0. This doesn't make sense to me. Any help in understand this would be great.

[slapshot]

Well now you get to the next point. It depends on your mix. I use soda ash so I can make it strong and dose very little or weak and dose a lot or more often. It is up to you. If your levels are steady then you are fine. We can go through it tomorrow.

[Tom Toro]

O.k. Good luck teaching this old dog some chemistry. Really looking forward to seeing your great setup in person, Don. Thanks for all the help and we'll see you tomorrow.
Tom





Well now you get to the next point. It depends on your mix. I use soda ash so I can make it strong and dose very little or weak and dose a lot or more often. It is up to you. If your levels are steady then you are fine. We can go through it tomorrow.

[Tom Toro]

Well, we are up to 8.6dkh on the sps tank. Looks a lot cleaner in there and the sps are all budded out. Thanks for the help folks, especially Don (Slapshot) who walked me through this. I think I have a handle on this now.

I'm adding 80ml of Bionic alk part and it's keeping me steady at 8.3-8.6. I'll be changing over to the Randy's recipe soon so I need to do some 'ciferin' to figure out how much of that I'll need. I figured I'm using about one dkh of alk a day so the reef calculator will take care of that.

Now to figure out a good way to put this aragamax sugar size sand in there. I've got it soaking in a bucket and it looks like milk. Going to be a challenge.