Starting up again, need a refresher!

[Ocho Cinco]

Hi, I have had saltwater tanks for the past 7 years and am planning on starting up again. For the past year or so I have just had a small pico and thats been it. I recently moved into a place of my own and want to start a big (appx 150 gallons) fish only tank. After looking at some sites again I realized I have forgot so much. I once knew my fair share but now feel out of the loop. I'm just looking for any suggestion on must haves/must do's to get this tank started on the right foot. Here are my plans so far: the tanks i'm looking at are from 125 gallons and up. I'm going to do a fish only type set up with LR. I have always done reefs before so fish only will be totally different for me. Eventually I think I will do a smaller reef but this is my first project. Any info on filtration, lighting, skimmers, etc would be great. Also, I'm unsure what to do in terms of water in's and out's. Drill? Overflow? How large? Thanks in advance!!!!

[Tankster]

go with a cube if it fits your space.

[Ocho Cinco]

Obviously go as big, and long as your space and budget will allow, it will save you money in the long run.... Big long tank allows for strong swimming fish like tangs, angels, triggers to all properly have the room they need! I think a 6' 150-180 is the best smaller sized tank for a good FOWLR if you want to really enjoy your fish, again tho bigger is definitely better especially with larger more territorial fish generally found in FOWLR tanks.

Drilled w/ overflow + sump and a large good skiimer are pretty much required with FOWLR tanks because usually they r bigger messier fish.

Lighting you can do just about any light you want doesnt have to be great as long as you can see the fish, but you could still go leds and never worry about bulbs, and use less energy!

Skimmer I would look at the Reef Octopus Extreme line, but there are others and some are better probably but the octo will get it done and are a kind of in the middle price wise. Look for something rated for atleast twice the size of your system.
Ok thanks. One I'm looking at is 150 and the other 125. How exactly should I set up the drain and water into the tank? I know there are many ways. What all should the sump consist of?

[Heidi]

Your overflow location and your return/returns depend on the size of tank. I have a 150 cube so I have mine in the corner (it is drilled in the bottom corner) 2 holes only one return, one drain. If you are looking at a long tank you may want to do 2 returns and one or 2 drains. Some folks who don't want a bunch of power heads in the tank like to drill the back in a couple places and have a powerful external pump split the work thats called "closed loop" (search it ;) tons of info im sure) Otherwise what I like is a slower flowing sump. I only have a quite one 1400 as my return and so my drain water (splits into 2 chambers refugium, and skimmer) and chills in the sump for a bit longer, giving it time to skim more and chill in my fuge growing my cheato. I rock a super reef octopus 3000 (LOVE it.) with the bubble blaster pump, and I have a lot of pooping fish and keep SPS so I can vouch for how awesome this skimmer works. I love starting tanks with the MB7 (nitrifying bacteria stuff from brightwell) Of another little thing I would never be with out is silly but it is one of those ammonia instant alert things you hang in your sump and keep for 3 months. I think that would be a big deal for fish only tanks cause you can let them get dirtier to a point but want to be in the know right away if you get a little ammonia spike. I feel like I am rambling but didn't really know where to start ;) make sure you draw and plan out your sump how you want it... perfectly... plan your plumbing at the same time. There are formulas out there that help you determine what size overflow box and holes to drill... how deep to make your sump... set your baffles etc. You are doing the best thing asking questions and reading a ton. Hope we can help!!

Heidi

[Ocho Cinco]

Thank you both for the input. It looks like I will be picking up a 150 gallon with stand and canopy on Sunday. It's not drilled so I have to get that done. Are the holes usually drilled in the back? So like one in the middle with a overflow box and 1 or 2 in the corners. The sump will go in the stand. I'm not sure whay my choices are with that and what will fit in the stand. I'm assuming it will be a slow process getting equiptment a little at a time. If you know anyone who has some used stuff let me know. Oh, what about a UV sterlizer?

[Ocho Cinco]

Might be a dumb question but, what do you mean by 2 drains? Like 2 holes for one over flow box? Or 2 boxes? Whats the best way to do the returns if not drilling?

[Ocho Cinco]

Randon thought/question. Is $500 a good price for a 150 gallon, stand and canopy plus some extras? It seems to be in great shape for a used tank.

[redemer123]

make sure the bottom of your tank isn't tempered glass otherwise the bottom will ****ter the second you dig into it with a hole saw, also be sure the hole saw its diamond tipped.

[Heidi]

I would look around for a tank for a while... It sounds to me like you are still really in the planning stages. 150 6 foot tanks are pretty common and so finding a new one or even nice used one will be easy. 500 seems like a lot with so many people trying to jump ship (economy... Bla bla etc). You could get a new tank for that if you ordered from a couple different places.

[Heidi]

It depends on the brand and the niceness :). I for one bought a marineland DD and got a heck of a deal on a very nice tank stand canopy and lights... But later (see my thread) my tank starts to leak and I had no warrantee... There is something to be said for buying someone else's issues... Seems like the going rate for a used tank is about a dollar a gallon... Everything extra makes it more but make sure you go on a ton Of forums before you buy, better ideas of what's out there and how much it costs. Oh and decently google "bean animal" overflows... If i could pick an overflow knowing what I know now that would be it.

Drains: holes with bulkheads that lead to the sump... Can be in the back but most of the time people bottom drill.

:) again sorry so long
Heidi

[Ocho Cinco]

It depends on the brand and the niceness :). I for one bought a marineland DD and got a heck of a deal on a very nice tank stand canopy and lights... But later (see my thread) my tank starts to leak and I had no warrantee... There is something to be said for buying someone else's issues... Seems like the going rate for a used tank is about a dollar a gallon... Everything extra makes it more but make sure you go on a ton Of forums before you buy, better ideas of what's out there and how much it costs. Oh and decently google "bean animal" overflows... If i could pick an overflow knowing what I know now that would be it.

Drains: holes with bulkheads that lead to the sump... Can be in the back but most of the time people bottom drill.

:) again sorry so long
Heidi

I've looked a decent amount and this seems to be the best deal imo. All new tanks I've seen are crazy in price and atleast $1500 for a combo. All the stuff I've seen on reefing sites and Craigslist have been a few hundred (usually for a smaller tank) and have usually been neglected. So that means I have to scrape all the algae and calcium off the glass and it never looks the same. This person has the tank running with freshwater and is getting out. From the pics it looks very clean! :shrug: Anyway, that's my reasoning for this tank :)

Back to the Overflow. I looked up the Bean Animal, it looks awesome but I need something I can just buy, I'm not very handy. Do I need to buy a pump first then overflow box so I know what gph rating to get? Are HOB ones any good? Is it better to go with one that is from top to bottom with a stand pipe in it to drain water?

[Sir Patrick]

Good to see you back man!

[Ocho Cinco]

Good to see you back man!

It's good to be back!

[Ocho Cinco]

All the packaged deals I've seen so far come with crap for equipment. You just gotta be at the right place at the right time I guess. I'm going to check it out tomorrow so I'll see if it looks as good in person as in the picture. As for drilling, I think im going to take it to the Fish Doctors to get it drilled. For the in lines did you reccomend just the hand on back type?

[Heidi]

I've looked a decent amount and this seems to be the best deal imo. All new tanks I've seen are crazy in price and atleast $1500 for a combo. All the stuff I've seen on reefing sites and Craigslist have been a few hundred (usually for a smaller tank) and have usually been neglected. So that means I have to scrape all the algae and calcium off the glass and it never looks the same. This person has the tank running with freshwater and is getting out. From the pics it looks very clean! :shrug: Anyway, that's my reasoning for this tank :)

Back to the Overflow. I looked up the Bean Animal, it looks awesome but I need something I can just buy, I'm not very handy. Do I need to buy a pump first then overflow box so I know what gph rating to get? Are HOB ones any good? Is it better to go with one that is from top to bottom with a stand pipe in it to drain water?

OK, so if the tank is a go :) Make sure you go there and check it out with the water in if it's close :big_grin: this is what I would do if I didn't want to DIY a bean or whatever...

http://www.glass-holes.com/1500-gph-complete-kit-gh1500 (http://www.glass-holes.com/1500-gph-complete-kit-gh1500kit.htm)kit.htm

that is everything you need there to do a 1500 GPH overflow box... drains... baffles.. even comes with the drill bits for the holes :) Feel free to chime in here if anyone has used these guys.. I have read about them plenty hearing very good things but never used them personally. Thats only for one huge box.. but I think you can do 2 boxes and have just one hole per box... or there is a 3000 GPH kit too. (that would be a lot faster.. so bigger pump, faster flow in the sump not as much skim time etc.) I am feeling like for a 150 1400gph is good enough. So that will put a hole in the bottom of your tank for a drain to your sump.. what are you wanting your sump to look like? Refugium? What size is the skimmer you want? external or internal return pump? Those are a few of the questions you need to ask yourself now.

:big_grin: Hope this is helping some Also if anyone else wants to chime in especially if I give some crap advice feel free :smash:

Heidi

[Ocho Cinco]

OK, so if the tank is a go :) Make sure you go there and check it out with the water in if it's close :big_grin: this is what I would do if I didn't want to DIY a bean or whatever...

http://www.glass-holes.com/1500-gph-complete-kit-gh1500 (http://www.glass-holes.com/1500-gph-complete-kit-gh1500kit.htm)kit.htm

that is everything you need there to do a 1500 GPH overflow box... drains... baffles.. even comes with the drill bits for the holes :) Feel free to chime in here if anyone has used these guys.. I have read about them plenty hearing very good things but never used them personally. Thats only for one huge box.. but I think you can do 2 boxes and have just one hole per box... or there is a 3000 GPH kit too. (that would be a lot faster.. so bigger pump, faster flow in the sump not as much skim time etc.) I am feeling like for a 150 1400gph is good enough. So that will put a hole in the bottom of your tank for a drain to your sump.. what are you wanting your sump to look like? Refugium? What size is the skimmer you want? external or internal return pump? Those are a few of the questions you need to ask yourself now.

:big_grin: Hope this is helping some Also if anyone else wants to chime in especially if I give some crap advice feel free :smash:

Heidi

I found this on MR http://www.michiganreefers.com/forums/selling-forums/123878-pumps-filters.html . Quiet one 2200 pump thats pretty new for $40. Good? Bad?

I like that link! What exactly do I get thats in the picture? Just the huge box in back? I was planning on a fuge in the sump and a pretty large skimmer. Not too picky on the pump. I would feel better drilling from the back just incase I have a proplem with the bottom.

[Heidi]

I found this on MR http://www.michiganreefers.com/forums/selling-forums/123878-pumps-filters.html . Quiet one 2200 pump thats pretty new for $40. Good? Bad?

I like that link! What exactly do I get thats in the picture? Just the huge box in back? I was planning on a fuge in the sump and a pretty large skimmer. Not too picky on the pump. I would feel better drilling from the back just incase I have a proplem with the bottom.

Im gonna go with no on the pump. I would want to get a 4000 for a 150 at least. I have a life guard 5000 for my return pump right now and LOVE it.. it is quiet and a good amount of flow but not all crazzy amount. 2200 only gets like 594 MAX gallons per hour and thats with zero head. here is a link to the little chart on them on F&S Aquarium Water Pumps & Water Movement: Lifegard Aquatics Quiet One Pro Aquarium Pumps (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4587+23814&pcatid=23814) I have been told to be really wary of buying used pumps. The Q.O. pumps are pretty inexpensive for new but a used one I would want to buy at least a 4000 for your tank.

The black box goes inside your tank, you drill the hole in the bottom and sit that over it. I am not sure if they do a durso but that is an easy fix for sure to make your overflow really quiet. It comes with the plumbing stuff too. (that make the holes you drill in the glass water tight)

Heidi

[Ocho Cinco]

Im gonna go with no on the pump. I would want to get a 4000 for a 150 at least. I have a life guard 5000 for my return pump right now and LOVE it.. it is quiet and a good amount of flow but not all crazzy amount. 2200 only gets like 594 MAX gallons per hour and thats with zero head. here is a link to the little chart on them on F&S Aquarium Water Pumps & Water Movement: Lifegard Aquatics Quiet One Pro Aquarium Pumps (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4587+23814&pcatid=23814) I have been told to be really wary of buying used pumps. The Q.O. pumps are pretty inexpensive for new but a used one I would want to buy at least a 4000 for your tank.

The black box goes inside your tank, you drill the hole in the bottom and sit that over it. I am not sure if they do a durso but that is an easy fix for sure to make your overflow really quiet. It comes with the plumbing stuff too. (that make the holes you drill in the glass water tight)

Heidi
Ok. I was thinking you had a QO 1500 for your tank or something like that from a earlier post. How tall is that over flow box? It doesnt look like it would go from top to bottom.

I watched the video. It looks like it attaches to the back and has a 90 degree elbow on the back going down to the sump.

[Heidi]

Ok. I was thinking you had a QO 1500 for your tank or something like that from a earlier post. How tall is that over flow box? It doesnt look like it would go from top to bottom.

Yeah sorry that was my guess at my GPH.. its the "5000" model. Here is a picture of what the overflow drilling etc from glass holes is.. I guess I was wrong it is back drilled.
http://reefercentral.com/Overflow%20Assembly.jpg

Still a cool kit IMO but others might chime in. There is a ton of instruction (videos etc.) on that site too.

Heidi

[Ocho Cinco]

So in all I'm thinking:

-about a 1500 gph overflow
-about a 1000gph pump (more or less)
-overkill skimmer
-Sump, depends on what I can fit below stand.
-Prolly, drill one hole for the overflow and do 2 returns. That way I only have to drill once.

---------- Post added at 11:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 PM ----------


Yeah sorry that was my guess at my GPH.. its the "5000" model. Here is a picture of what the overflow drilling etc from glass holes is.. I guess I was wrong it is back drilled.
http://reefercentral.com/Overflow%20Assembly.jpg

Still a cool kit IMO but others might chime in. There is a ton of instruction (videos etc.) on that site too.

Heidi

Ah I see! I'm gonna look and see what I can find at stores first just so I don't have to order but I will shoot for that same size. I would get that package for about $90 because I wont need the bit. I have also found mention of this site on other forms too. So it seems like your not the only one.

[Heidi]

So in all I'm thinking:

-about a 1500 gph overflow
-about a 1000gph pump (more or less)
-overkill skimmer
-Sump, depends on what I can fit below stand.
-Prolly, drill one hole for the overflow and do 2 returns. That way I only have to drill once.

---------- Post added at 11:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 PM ----------



Ah I see! I'm gonna look and see what I can find at stores first just so I don't have to order but I will shoot for that same size. I would get that package for about $90 because I wont need the bit.


Yeah I say only drill once. returns can be over the edge since they will be hidden from view by your hood anyway. OHH there is a cool site about sumps too. Just so you can get some ideas about what you want, or don't want as for set up. Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums (http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html) good stuff on there for sure, that I have used :)

Heidi

[Ocho Cinco]

I got the tank today :redneck:! I found another reefer that is going to come over and drill for me. My plan of taking it to get drilled while I had a truck didnt work so I was kinda stuck. I plan on ordering 1500 GPH overflow box from gl*******s.com next. The tank actually came with two 2 bulb (50 watts each) flouresent light strips that cover the whole tank. I'd assume they would work fine for a FOWLR tank. Any idea if they make an actinic type bulb like that? Random thought, I'm sure its best to use only RO water with filling the tank but could I do some tap water since it's fish only?

[Sir Patrick]

The Fish Doctors in Ypsilanti caries actinic and 50/50 flourecent bulbs. I have used 1 actinic along with a normal white shop light on my past fowlr tank, and the colors looked great, on my fish as well as the live rock. Didnt get any abnormal algea growth till the bulbs got old, around a year and a half.

I also recomend the glass holes kit.

[Ocho Cinco]

The Fish Doctors in Ypsilanti caries actinic and 50/50 flourecent bulbs. I have used 1 actinic along with a normal white shop light on my past fowlr tank, and the colors looked great, on my fish as well as the live rock. Didnt get any abnormal algea growth till the bulbs got old, around a year and a half.

I also recomend the glass holes kit.

Cool I'll for sure swap some out and pick up a few of those to add some color

[Ocho Cinco]

Glass Holes makes you select bulk head size. Short or Tall (for glass over 1/2"). My glass is exactly 1/2", do I go short or tall?

[Ocho Cinco]

Ok, so I ordered the 1500 gph glass holes overflow. Now I'm thinking plumbing and sump. Any ideas/suggestions there? I've been looking for some kind of plumbing diagram or simple how to artice but no luck.

[Heidi]

Ok, so I ordered the 1500 gph glass holes overflow. Now I'm thinking plumbing and sump. Any ideas/suggestions there? I've been looking for some kind of plumbing diagram or simple how to artice but no luck.

Start with a drawn picture starting at the back of your tank and how you want the water to get into your sump. Then have a second picture of your sump and how you want the water to move through it to the return then draw the lines back to the tank. I took my sketch like that to lowes and hung out in the plumbing section till I had all the pieces I needed to make it work. Another good place is that Melvin website I linked in and earlier post. Option #3 is have a friend that has done it a few time help you. It's a totally personal thing that is hard to explain in a post I guess. If me posting some of my awful drawings would help let me know....
Heidi

[Ocho Cinco]

Start with a drawn picture starting at the back of your tank and how you want the water to get into your sump. Then have a second picture of your sump and how you want the water to move through it to the return then draw the lines back to the tank. I took my sketch like that to lowes and hung out in the plumbing section till I had all the pieces I needed to make it work. Another good place is that Melvin website I linked in and earlier post. Option #3 is have a friend that has done it a few time help you. It's a totally personal thing that is hard to explain in a post I guess. If me posting some of my awful drawings would help let me know....
Heidi

I have the idea in my mind its just a matter of making it happen. Do people generally use stiff PVC or different tubing like spa tubing, etc.? Will return pumps attach directly to PVC?

[Sir Patrick]

I prefer rigid pvc over flex pipe.

[Heidi]

I have the idea in my mind its just a matter of making it happen. Do people generally use stiff PVC or different tubing like spa tubing, etc.? Will return pumps attach directly to PVC?

I use both. All spa for my return. Mostly rigid for my drains.