Cycling tank with raw shrimp

[BarbH]

I started my cycling on my tank at the beginning of this week using a piece of raw shrimp. The rock that I usd was dried although it had been used by another reefer. Between the organics on the rock and the shrimp that I added I have been getting readings on ammonia and nitrites. I started adding my saltwater to the tank on 4/7 and finished filling it on 4/8. On Monday 4/9 I added my piece of raw shrimp. I decided to go ahead and test my water to give me a base line on where I was starting. Ammonia was 1.0ppm Nitrite was 0.5ppm, did not test on nitrates. On 4/10 test results were Ammonia 2.0ppm Nitrite 1.0ppm, I also have what I believe to be a bacterial bloom that started white hazy cloudy water. From my experience in fw this is usually a bacterial bloom. On 4/11 test results were the same as the day before. Today 4/12 my test results are Ammonia 4.0ppm Nitrite 2.0ppm and I tested on Nitrates and got a reading of 20ppm. What I am wondering is if I should leave the piece of shrimp in for a little longer and let my ammonia and nitrites get a little bit higher before pulling it out, or go ahead and pull it out?

Also another question that I have is that my pH has been testing consistently at 7.8 since I started testing. I test at about the same time each day, late morning. I noticed from what I have read that most people have their pH above 8. At this time I do not know what my alkalinty is, do not have a test kit for that yet, and from what I remember alkalinty and pH relate to one another higher alkalinity helps to stabilize the pH while with low alkalinity the pH can change. I know that with my fw experience keeping water parameters consistent is more important than having the ideal range. With a pH of 7.8 as along as it is keeping consistent will I be okay with fish and in the future when I am ready to move on with corals will they be fine with a lower pH? Thanks for your suggestions and advice.

[redemer123]

your tanks new, it will be low for a while eventually it will likely sort itself out and be between 8 and 8.4

[MizTanks]

your tanks new, it will be low for a while eventually it will likely sort itself out and be between 8 and 8.4

How can you determine what her PH is going to be?

[redemer123]

Another thing you may want to try is to test later on in the day its good that you are testing at the same time for consistent results. pH will rise throughout the day and fall throughout the night.

[redemer123]

How can you determine what her PH is going to be?
Because im a chemist to be, therefore by using a myriad of complex mathematical equations I can determine where her pH should fall between. :thumbsup:

[Poseidon]

pH is dramatically affected by atmospheric CO2. Have you had your windows open/closed?

You are correct about alkalinity having an effect on pH as well, it is the buffer that must be controlled to keep you pH consistent.

Also, with no "life" in the tank, you should not have much of a pH swing yet. Coral and macro algae do go through a respiration cycle, day and night. Once you have a tank and sump going, you can set your sump to be lit opposite of the tank, which will also help stabilize pH swings.

There are a lot of products on the market that claim to help with pH, in my experience the best was an Aqua Vitro product called.... but I can't recall it at the moment, "Stabil" maybe. It is hydroxide ions in solution. However, you are not to the point of needing to add ANYTHING other then time right now. ;)

---------- Post added at 08:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:46 PM ----------


Because im a chemist to be, therefore by using a myriad of complex mathematical equations I can determine where her pH should fall between. :thumbsup:

You sir are a dreamer! ;)

[BarbH]

thank you redeemer when I get a chance I will try and see what it is in later on. Not in any rush to do anything and until the tank cycles I am guessing will see a lot if changes.

As for the shrimp I am thinking that will leave in until the ammonia gets a bit higher.

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[lngliv3]

When I set up my tank i left my shrimp in till it was covered in a cocoon like shell was about 3 days .... Then its a waiting game mine took 24 days for the numbers to come down to 0 across the board... In my opinion on ur ph levels depends what kind of base you have. In my old tank I used crushed aragonite and the water from my ro unit was at 7.8 before I put it in . After a day my ph went up to 8.0 so my thinking is the base helps keep the ph where it needs to be. Thats my opinion...:thumbsup:

[redemer123]

Another thing to keep in mind is that if the pH fluctuates just .2 points say from 7.8 to 8.0 thats 10 times more basic and vise versa when it comes to acidity and a one point jump from say 7 to 8 is 50 times more basic so as you can understand even the tiniest of changes in a tanks pH can be significant and is likely felt by your critters. So as you begin to finish the cycle in the near future keep that in mind as you stock the tank with critters, you want your tank rock solid, stability is the key to success. live by that motto if you want a rocking saltwater tank :)

[binford4000]

[QUOTE=Poseidon;145055]pH is dramatically affected by atmospheric CO2. Have you had your windows open/closed?

You are correct about alkalinity having an effect on pH as well, it is the buffer that must be controlled to keep you pH consistent.

Also, with no "life" in the tank, you should not have much of a pH swing yet. Coral and macro algae do go through a respiration cycle, day and night. Once you have a tank and sump going, you can set your sump to be lit opposite of the tank, which will also help stabilize pH swings.

There are a lot of products on the market that claim to help with pH, in my experience the best was an Aqua Vitro product called.... but I can't recall it at the moment, "Stabil" maybe. It is hydroxide ions in solution. However, you are not to the point of needing to add ANYTHING other then time right now. ;)[COLOR="Silver"]

---------- Post added at 08:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:46 PM ----------Well put.

Well put.the 7.8 will rise but starting a reverse light cycle on the fuge will help keep consitant buffer capabilities. I personally never used the shrimp to cycle a tank.just time and patience but have read of allot of other reefers doing it.Raiseing ammonia is something I never intentionally did.No 2 ,Po4 ,Alk,Ca and No3 levels are usually what I concern myself with once the ammonia reaches 0.

[Poseidon]

...a one point jump from say 7 to 8 is 50 times more basic...

This is wrong, pH is a logarithmic scale, a difference of one pH unit is equivalent to a tenfold difference in hydrogen ion concentration.

So moving from 7 to 8 is a 10X difference, moving from 7 to 9 a 100X.

I know you are trying to be helpful, however it is important to be helpful and accurate. Also, I really am not trying to pick on you, it is obvious you have a great desire to be helpful, and you have a fair bit of knowledge too. :D

There are so many variables in pH, that making statements like "your pH will stabilize at...." is a virtual impossibility. What if the substrate is calcite, or silicate sand? Neither of those will have much effect on raising the pH of the tank. What if the OP is a heavy smoker? That will also have an affect on the pH.

It is much preferable to offer advice that is specific and accurate, then it is to generalize an answer using incorrect data.

[MizTanks]

This is wrong, pH is a logarithmic scale, a difference of one pH unit is equivalent to a tenfold difference in hydrogen ion concentration.

So moving from 7 to 8 is a 10X difference, moving from 7 to 9 a 100X.

I know you are trying to be helpful, however it is important to be helpful and accurate. Also, I really am not trying to pick on you, it is obvious you have a great desire to be helpful, and you have a fair bit of knowledge too. :D

There are so many variables in pH, that making statements like "your pH will stabilize at...." is a virtual impossibility. What if the substrate is calcite, or silicate sand? Neither of those will have much effect on raising the pH of the tank. What if the OP is a heavy smoker? That will also have an affect on the pH.

It is much preferable to offer advice that is specific and accurate, then it is to generalize an answer using incorrect data.

My point exactly :)

[binford4000]

This is wrong, pH is a logarithmic scale, a difference of one pH unit is equivalent to a tenfold difference in hydrogen ion concentration.

So moving from 7 to 8 is a 10X difference, moving from 7 to 9 a 100X.

I know you are trying to be helpful, however it is important to be helpful and accurate. Also, I really am not trying to pick on you, it is obvious you have a great desire to be helpful, and you have a fair bit of knowledge too. :D

There are so many variables in pH, that making statements like "your pH will stabilize at...." is a virtual impossibility. What if the substrate is calcite, or silicate sand? Neither of those will have much effect on raising the pH of the tank. What if the OP is a heavy smoker? That will also have an affect on the pH.

It is much preferable to offer advice that is specific and accurate, then it is to generalize an answer using incorrect data.


BAZINGA !

I am not a chemist so looked this up, Mikes numbers are correct.refrenced to Anthony Calfo's "the book of coral propagation". Or the reefers bible as I like to call it. :oldman:

[redemer123]

haha I knew 7 to 9 would be 100x but for some reason I went and said 7 to 8 would be 50 oops studying other stuff lately in AP sort of allows one to forget the basics :) thanks Mike

[BarbH]

Thanks for the replies everyone. As for windows they have been closed over the last week because it has been a little bit on the cool side. I decided to start running my skimmer yesterday which helped to remove the cloudiness from the water. This morning after testing ammonia was still holding at 4.0 ppm Nitrites for the past two days had been at 2.0ppm today they were at 5.0 ppm for the past 3 days been having nitrate readings 4/12 20 ppm and then yesterday and today at 40 ppm. Plans for now are to continue to monitor parameters.

Tested pH today which was 8.0, again this is something that will continue to monitor. Substrate is argonite which from my understanding the argonite should help to buffer the water.

[Poseidon]

At this point I would shift to testing every other day, or even every third day. Since you are seeing a progression from NH3 to NO2 to NO3, you know the cycle has started, and now it is a waiting game.

[BarbH]

Thanks poseidon :)

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