new sea horses

[Sea~Horse~Whisperer]

And the journey begins......

1-7-06

8:00 PM
I went to the local LFS (the only one close) to

[Sea~Horse~Whisperer]

1 pic

[mutts]

Amazing story! I hope you have good luck with them, that one is so pretty! I do believe it is a good thing you took them home. If someone else did they may have just thought they would eat flakes or what not, and the poor things would have died, or the the FS would have killed them. I hope everything works out, keep us posted.

[graphixx]

Well I wish you the best of luck with your new adventure. keep us posted on how they do.

[dakar]

Okay Angie, time to give up the name of the shop you were in...... think we need to steer clear of there as well. We would have done the same thing.... rescue!

Best of luck with those critters, and keep us posted.

[Sea~Horse~Whisperer]

just a few more

[Sea~Horse~Whisperer]

last ones :)

Anyone know what kind they are? Male or Female? When I asked the LFS what kind they were they said they were CB yellow seahorses. Hmmm imagine that. H. Redi's Maybe?

Thanks,

Angie

[graphixx]

awesome pics!!!

[Sea~Horse~Whisperer]

Stupid question......

Will a seahorse eat baby brine shrimp? They seem awful tiny. I have fed them frozen mysis shrimp and they have each eaten a few, so they will eat it. Just not easily. How much do they eat? It just seem like 4-5 frozen mysis shrimp a day would be enough. Please let me know. I'm still researching. I hate being unprepared!!!


Thanks,

Angie

[Sea~Horse~Whisperer]

Thanks for the comments. I haven't posted pics of anything on the board for awhile. I will have to update the reef pics as well.

Angie

[jerryc]

Looks like you or of to a good start to save them. Good luck

[JustDavidP]

Welcome to the wonderful world of Seahorses.

What you have there is a pair of Hippocampus Reidi. The pictures (seahorse1 and seahorse 7) are that of an adolescent male. His pouch is still developing. The image seahorse 6 is a female. The female has a more pronounced "P" shape to their abdomen while the male's tapers slowly to the tail. Eventually, you will easily note his pouch.

I'm not going to banter on about "rescuing" fish from the LFS, but it is probably NOT a good idea. Not only may you have poor luck with the fish, but you encourage them to bring in more, hard to care for, fish and create a wicked cycle. In any case, I think you got lucky here..and here's why....

The Brazilian Seahorse, H. Reidi is also sometimes called the "Slender Seahorse". They are, by nature, a thinner looking sygnathid. Yours do not look malnourished at all. They actually look quite healthy. Being captive bred or raised is a bonus too. Typically, they are not released from the distributor unless they eat frozen foods. The LFS may not have known what to feed them. It seems as if you do.

It may take a couple days before they eat like the pigs they are :D They are a little nervous about their travels and will settle in soon. You've already seen good signs in that they will take frozen mysid. I also feed mine frozen adult brine from time to time, but don't make it a major part of their diet because they are nutritionally deficient and could cause starvation in the fish.

I would NOT add any live foods for now. See just how much frozen they eat first. If they are trained on frozen, and you introduce live, you may make them 'food snobs' and they could, in turn, refuse the frozen again.

If you notice that they will NOT eat frozen, then try to use live adult brine and mix some frozen in during the feeding. Increase the ammount of frozen and reduce the live foods over time to train them on frozen entirely. Again, if they are already eating frozen, don't mess with it.

Feed them frozen mysid (PEI is a good choice though I use a product called Gamma, they are true saltwater mysid, PEI is freshwater) twice a day. Each fish should get about 1/2 dozen per feeding. If you feed once a day, increase the portions, but not by too much. It is also a good idea to 'fast' them once a week. Go a day without food. It has been proven to reduce common liver problems in seahorses. NEVER overfeed. They will eat until the food is gone and this is a big problem. Seahorses do NOT have a belly! They will eat and push the food through their track and NEVER get any nutrients from it. You will see this in that they will literally poop out whole shrimp!

Finally, please do read up at seahorse.org. The library there is great. The folks there are kind, and answer any and all questions without flaming.

Tell us more about the tank you set up...

Dave

[carpenterwrasse]

sure wish i could get that lucky

[Sea~Horse~Whisperer]

JustDavidP.....

Thank you so much for the information. Both of my children are SO excited that we have a male and a female. I am not. I do not want babies. (I know I couldn't raise them so they will die)
I will not give them live foods. I will keep trying the frozen. I have been to seahorse.org. I've been reading a lot and trying to do the best I can for them.

Angie

[Sea~Horse~Whisperer]

The tank is an all glass 20G (24x12x17) Sandbed = 1inch Taken from 125G reef and 40G FOWLR. 15 lbs Liverock from reef tank , Chaeto, Green star polyps, purple star polyps, Purple / blue mushrooms, 4 different zoanthids, LG Feather Duster and Purple Sinularia (sp?) . I use oceanic Salt and I mixed 10G freshly made SW and 10G from the reef tank. I also added some fake plants for the horses to hitch to.

I plan to build a small sump / fuge for the tank when time permits.


I had a large biowheel filter on the tank for 24 hrs to clean the sandstorm. This was made for a 55G tank so the flow was a little much for the seahorses in the 20G. I have since shut the powerfilter off and I am only using a Protien skimmer. The pump on the skimmer does 2000 l/h. The horses seem to like it better with only that one pump running.

When the power filter was on they were always hitched to something ans still getting blown around. Since the switch, they have been swimming all over the tank and look like they are playing.

I tested the water and everything tested fine. (nitrates at 10ppm)
Temp is at 76

If there is anything else you need to know just ask.

[Sea~Horse~Whisperer]

Color changes H.Redi...Help Please
Is it normal for H Redi to get darker after lights out? During the day they are light yellow to white. But at night they turn black all the way around the outside edges of their bodies. Their tails are all black. I've read that they turn black / dark if they are stressed. If this is true, why are they only stressed after lights out? If this is not normal, what can I do for them at this point?

Water chem. ( as of 1:00 am 1/10/06)
nitrate 5
nitrite 0
ph 8.4
ammonia 0
alk 11.5 dkh
phosphate 0

Thanks in advance,

Angie

[Sea~Horse~Whisperer]

pics of night colors

[JustDavidP]

Awesome job there Angie! Even after what others may call an "impulse purchase", you had the knowledge and forethought to use established rock, sand and water in setting up a quick pony tank. Hats off to you!

Yes, the flow rate in the tank MUST be much lower than that of a reef. My old reef had in and around 15X turnover rate. My H. Reidi tank has just 6X turnover. The ponies like that much better. While they are used to short periods (tide crests and ebbs) of faster moving water, they typically see short, erratic, rolling wave type of motion in the grassbeds and reef edges that they inhabit.

Personally, I'd try to keep the water at 78F during the warmest part of the day, allowing it to roll back a couple few at night when the lights go out. H. Reidi is one species that borders the tropical and temperate zones. While they would not appreciate temps in the low to mid 80's like a reef, they are not used to temperate waters in the low to mid 70's. H. Erectus on the other hand, would love cooler waters.

Finally, in re: possible breeding. While H. Reidi is one of the smaller of the seahorses, maxing out at no more than 8 inches in length, more often than not, they will stay in and around 6-7 inches. With that said, they prefer 3X their total lenghth (with tail extended) in tank height for courting and egg transfer. In that 20 gallon tank, they will be comfortable in a "day to day" manner, but may not have the right conditions to breed. Only time will tell. It is not impossible, but statistically, a shorter tank reduces the chances of a successful egg transfer. You may not have to worry about raising fry. In the end, if they do mate, you could probably find a local hobbiest who may want to try and raise them. I'd try to identify such a person well before hand so the both of you are ready in case the marine storks do arrive at your door ;)

Dave

[JustDavidP]

Oh...and to answer your other question...

H. Reidi are masters at disguise. They WILL change colors to match their environ. At night, when things are dark, a yellow pony advertizes "Eat Here" :D So, with that said, they "shadow" to match the rocks and such and keep a low profile.

Your ponies are NOT stressed. Yes, the reason they are all black in the LFS (for the most part) is that they are stressed. But in your case, they are just matching their environment.

Keep in mind that the male will always have a black edge to its "keel". That is, their breast area. It is common. All of the H. Reidi will have areas that are darker and lighter. It is natural.

In my tank, I had ONLY tonga branch as hitches. My ponies were silver, grey, with black and white spotting and SOME signs of yellow. I put in fake corals (orange octopus coral from That Fishy Place) and they immediately yellowed up to match the hitches.

Also, my females (who spend most of their time in the open -vs- males who hunt in rocks and have 'territories') will collect algae as camouflage. They literally pick small bits of macro and stick them to their backsides. They also tend to grow natural alga on their backs as they spend more time in the light than do my males. This is yet another form of camoflage used by this incredibly wonderful fish.

Dave

[Sea~Horse~Whisperer]

THANKS AGAIN JUSTDAVIDP......

Ok, now that I'm fairly certain they will survive......Time to get them a "Proper Home"

I have a 45G High (L36 x W12 xH24)

Would this be more suitable for them? I'm so into the seahorses right now that I feel like I'm neglecting my reef :-? How long can I keep them in the 20 G ? I hate to switch their home again so soon, especially since they are doing well and learning where the food will be. The last thing I want to do is stress them out again. Do you think I should wait till I see them courting to move them?

Sorry for all of the questions.......but this is the best place for accurate and quick information. Please bare with me for a little longer. I was having problems with seahorse.org......I kept getting a 404 error ????

Angie

[JustDavidP]

Oh Gosh Ya! That is an ideal tank!!!! I'd be happy to move in there... (and if I get another tank, my wife just may MAKE me move in there ;) )

You could keep this pair in your 20G for a couple few months anyway. They are still juvenile and don't need the room to mate. They will be happy for now. Just keep up on the water quality. As you know, it doesn't take much to foul 20 gallons.

You don't have to do anything fast...and..remember the ol' saying "Nothing Good Happens Fast". Just keep up on the 20 and start to set up their other home. It may be a blessing in disguise because you'd be better off setting up the 45G and letting it "season" for some time. This way, the pods, mysid, and all other beneficial fauna can develop and truly support your inhabitants. I let my 26G "season" for three months before putting in my ponies.

Finally, NEVER apologize for questions. The ONLY dumb question in this hobby is the one that is not asked...and therefore causes pain to the hobbiest, or worse, their "charges". Ask away... I love to help out. Otherwise, the wonderful Mods and owners here would not have asked me to follow this, YOUR seahorse forum.

If you still have problems with Seahorse.org, let me know. I can talk with Greg or Renee and get it fixed.

be well

Dave

[Sea~Horse~Whisperer]

1) Ok now the sea horses are * almost * all black / dark brown. They have been this way for 2 days. I retested the water to make sure everything was still in normal parameters and all is good. If they are trying to "blend" in with their surroundings......I have color blind sea horses, lol. I'm including new pics of the tank and of the horses. I added brighter colored hitches and a solid yellow background in hope that they brighten back up. I also added some razor macro for them.

2) I notices some algae starting to grow on my sand in the tank. Because of the low flow, what can I do about this? I don't know why I would have an algae outbreak. All of the sand and 1/2 of the water and all of the LR came from an established tank. I'm thinking about adding a few hermits to stir the sand. I already have about 20 Nass. snails. Anything else I can do?

Water circulation.....> I had a power filter that pumped 330 GPH (16.5x the tank volume) way more than the 3-4x recommended. I switched it to a power filter that only filters 100 GPH. (seems like there isn't any water movement) Now it seems like the horses are staying hitched more and swimming less than they did when there was high flow in the tank. Should I leave it alone or put the Larger filter back on the tank?

Thanks......AGAIN
Angie

[JustDavidP]

If the ponies are eating properly and the water conditions are okay, I'd not worry. My ponies change from yellow and white with flecks to grey and black and even show some oranges from time to time. In some instances, it is just a day. Other times, especially when 'courting', they change colors for days. I've seen them change color with change in temperature. I've seen them change color if I'm fussing with the decor. They've changed color when I've introduced a new inhabitant...basically...they do it...because they can.

Again, if they are eating right, and the water is okay, and you see no visible injury or stress, I'd not worry.

I added a small Rio50 powerhead to the bottom, back corner of my system. I have it set on a timer that turns it on for just 10 minutes a day. This stirs up any detritus or leftover foods and sends them into the water column where they can be skimmed out. This keeps cyano and other alga from growing on my sand. Remember, with a shallow sand bed like that, you'll not have much biological activity in there. A deep sand bed, chuck full of bacterium (both aerobic and anaerobic), worms, pods etc. will help keep the system cleaner AND will help with PH buffering. I'm not going to get into a DSB -vs- SSB debate here. I believe in DSB and that's what I use.

The addition of the caulerpa serrulata was a good idea. Not only does it provide additional hitches, but it will help with water quality. Macro algae makes quick use of ammonia in the water. It feeds on everything you DON'T want in there..and provides a 'refugium' of sorts for good stuff. Just make sure you prune it appropriately so it doesn't cause staining or go sexual on you. Granted, there is less a chance of that with the razor type than the bubble type, but it can still happen. You'll notice that the ends will become clear when it is in need of pruning. NOT white, which indicates growth, but clear.

I'd still stick to the recommended flow rates of UP TO 5X the tank volume and no more. Additional flow could stress the ponies. Remember, using sponges on powerheads and such will reduce the flow. A Maxijet 1200 with a sponge on it will NOT put out 100% flow. It may be reduced to 1/2 the expected flow; especially if they are dirty. Finally, the use of sponges in your system could cause 'aerobic bacterium' to develop and raise Nitrates.

Yes, add some blue legged hermits. The scarlets get bigger and sometimes accidentially nip at seahorses (especially if the ponies have alga on them..most, but not all do grow alga on their back sides). This will help with sand stirring and will also help with removal of wasted foods. Cleaner shrimp will also help with this and as an added bonus, when kept in pairs or a trio, will breed and provide snacks for the ponies :)

Honestly, I think this system looks fine. Watch the sand and algae and all should go well until you set up the other system.

Dave

[JustDavidP]

Here...Just took this. This is one of my males who is typically ALL yellow with some salt and pepper flecks. This was taken after I had my hands in the tank and ticked him off. Note that he blends in with the Tonga Branch quite nicely!

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d176/JustDavidP/Colorchangepony.jpg

Dave

[Dirt4dinner]

I don't have seahorses.....nor do I plan on getting any. But I just had to pipe up and say this is one of the BEST threads I have seen in a long time. Very very educational!! nice job you two.

[Sea~Horse~Whisperer]

Ok for now I'm just going to leave the tank alone. When I switch to the 45H I will have a deep sand bed. (My reef tank has a 4-6in DSB and I love it. I took out the skimmer and added a powerhead w/ spray bar to move any detritus or leftover foods into the water column. I do not have a time on it. I juat plan to turn if on manually for a few mins. every night to take care of the waste.

As soon as I find an appropriate skimmer fo rthis tank I will remove the HOB powerfilter and rely on the skimmer only (besides LR and sand) for filteration. Maybe an upcomming DIY project.:)

OR I have an old prizm skimmer that was a piece of crap for my 55G reef........would it be sufficient for a SH tank? I have that right now in a box in the basement.

Thanks,
Angie

[JustDavidP]

Best o' luck Angie... keep asking questions.. we ALL learn from it!

D for Dinner... thanks much. I'm NOT an expert, but I've been around the 'lagoon' a couple times and LOVE to help others.

Dave

[Sea~Horse~Whisperer]

Thanks Dirt4dinner. I'm learning lots too. I have to keep asking questions because I don't want to do anything that would harm them. They are adorable and have awsome personalities. It took all of 3 days for them to figure out that when the clear rigid airline tubing goes into the tank, Food is served. Now they hitch right to the feeding tube and wait for the mysid to come out the end. A few times they sucked it right out the end. I must have been taking too long, lol. I still have to think of a name for the female......My youngest daughter (the one who talked me into getting them) named the male Charger, since he charges at the food. So I guess I only need a female name.

Angie