Broke down tank, but can't stop coughing

[Tom Toro]

Broke down the 240 and removed the corals without gloves until I got nailed by a huge bristleworm. My hand didn't swell up so I figure I'm not allergic.

After about a half hour, my son and I both couldn't stop coughing. Is it possible we are having a reaction to something in the tank? Anybody ever heard of this kind of reaction after touching corals?

Here's what we were touching:

Thousands of Palys
Hundreds of zoas
About 15 RBTA's
Toadstools and other softies

[thefishgirl]

I'd be nervous about handling that quantity of palys and zoas without gloves. I move a few here and there without gloves, but not THAT many at one time. I'm assuming they were taken out of the water.... is there a chance that they released something in the air? I've seen them expel something when removed... so maybe you inhaled something?

I would monitor, and if it takes any turn for the worse or continues much longer, I would head to the ER. I'd rather see someone show up at the ER and be OK, rather than not, and have huge regrets for not acting sooner. Plenty of time to feel silly later if it was nothing at all.

[jimsflies]

Try taking some Benadryl asap.

[dputt88]

did you move equipment and what not outside or down in a basment. because my suggestion would be it may just be from going from a really humid area (you prolly had your head right above the tank a few times) to an area with very low humidity (basements garages and outside). like in the winter when you walk in and out of the house a lot you start coughing.

[binford4000]

Benadryl is a good idea. Large colony of palley and zoa can release enough toxins that small traces we're able to become air born. Doubtful but could happen. My bet is more from the fecral matter that has been collecting in that tanks sandbed for all those years caused some breathing issues. I hope you both feel better and if it doesn't clear up quickly I would get to the ER Tom. Better safe then sorry!

[CUNAReefer]

Hi Tom,

You may have been poisoned. Please read this article:

Steamed Palythoas send well-informed aquarist to the emergency room, nearly to the grave (http://reefbuilders.com/2012/03/04/palytoxin/)

With the amount of Zoos and Palys you were handling, there is a chance that you and your son could have inhaled paly toxin.

If you or your son get any worse, it may be time to go to the hospital.

James


Broke down the 240 and removed the corals without gloves until I got nailed by a huge bristleworm. My hand didn't swell up so I figure I'm not allergic.

After about a half hour, my son and I both couldn't stop coughing. Is it possible we are having a reaction to something in the tank? Anybody ever heard of this kind of reaction after touching corals?

Here's what we were touching:

Thousands of Palys
Hundreds of zoas
About 15 RBTA's
Toadstools and other softies

[dknuckles]

***MOST IMPORTANT take son to Dr for blood work and evaluation!!!!****

From personal experience x2 paly toxin exposure:
when a contact paly toxin contamination occurs a strong metallic taste in the mouth, them progressing into other physical symptoms (temp., anxiety, visual disturbance, swelling and yes resporatory distress (which is difficulty breathing "elephant on chest")

Since, no irration on skin, son not stung, and did not cook the palys causing a steam/gas fumes transporting the toxin. primary complaint is coughing your exposure will be a respiratory contaminant (exper: 43 year chronic asthma treatment, 5 yrs poster child Amer. Lung Assoc. and 2yrs nursing education) since you r breaking down the tank chances are more likely that u and ur son was exposed my an airborne combo of mold, mildew, and salmonella (most of the stuff that looks like dust is not dust!)
I would thoroughly bleach the house and change/clean any air filters u may have.and most important son to Dr. (I am assumIng ur son is younger)

Hopefully scottcrrt will chime in as well, he is a Resp. Therapist. (the profession that is constantly responsible for keeping me alive... !!!)

[Sir Patrick]

Sounds like you guys already got alot of good advice. I too agree it sounds like you got contaminated with something airborne. Sounds like something bacterial that was realeased while moving/breaking down your tank. Hopefully it was from a softie, live rock or sand....and not your palys.

Keep us posted and stay well, both of you!

[thefishgirl]

Hey Tom Toro... how about a health check / update?? You guys doing OK?

[Tom Toro]

Thanks for all the excellent replies. I took benadryl immediately and started reflecting back on what we were doing. I remember stabbing my finger with a calcium worm and it bled. I pulled out the shell and continued on with the removal. My son's gloves kept popping cause of the worms too, but I don't think he bled. Today we are both much better. My son is back home and he said the longer he was away from my house the better he felt. I felt like I had the flu today, but went to a party anyway and the same thing. The longer I was away from the house, the better I felt. Feels like a mild cold now, but I'm using a large attic fan and open windows to flush out that room. I don't want to go in there for awhile without my chemical mask. Can't believe the bird and rabbit lived through it. My wife looked it up on the net and described our symptoms for a mild reaction to airborne palytoxin exactly. I had the cough and nausea and my son said he just didn't feel good and was coughing too. A very bad reaction requires an ER visit and I also read there's really nothing they can do but monitor you in case your heart stops. I learned the hard way not to take this lightly. I'll have my mask and thick gloves when I put 'em all back in the new tank.

I really appreciate the concern and great information! Good group of folks.

[slapshot]

Geez Tom, what the _ _ _ _? Well I'm glad your better and a good lesson for all of us. I guess anything could have been released including trapped gasses. Can't say I ever heard of that happening. I have had reactions to corals and such but not coughing. Did you have the metal taste? It's suppose to be pretty strong. Keep us updated as again this is important for all of us to keep in mind.

[Tom Toro]

Geez Tom, what the _ _ _ _? Well I'm glad your better and a good lesson for all of us. I guess anything could have been released including trapped gasses. Can't say I ever heard of that happening. I have had reactions to corals and such but not coughing. Did you have the metal taste? It's suppose to be pretty strong. Keep us updated as again this is important for all of us to keep in mind.

No taste except that taste you get when you have a chest cold and kick up some stuff (sorry folks, gross). I did have the incessant cough and nausea. My boy had the cough and chills with no nausea, but felt like 'crap' all day. I guess it hits us differently. Spooked me pretty good , so I'm taking nothing for granted anymore.

[slapshot]

Maybe you should just pop in to your Doctors just to make sure he doesn't think you inhaled some fungus or anything. maybe a coarse of antibiotics or at least an inhaler to open things up. If your coughing stuff up something is irritating your lungs. Sooo on to a happier subject, how the new tank look?

[binford4000]

Good to hear you and your son are feeling better Tom. I have read about airborne paly toxin contamination but have never experienced or new anyone who has. It was really important that you shared this very potentially dangerous situation with others. Allot of people take the real dangers of corals defense capability's lightly. It is only wise to use correct safety precautions when dealing with coral. I.E. rubber gloves, glasses good ventilation in a confined space like a basement and so fourth... Most of all glad you and your son are ok my friend !! If you need face shields or good respirators LMK. I have heard many people say you don't need to use the gloves or glasses and most times they're right nothing happens but as you have described it's that one time that makes the difference. These toxins are no joke and should be handled carefully! Once again thank god everyone's ok and thanks for sharing :thumbsup:

It is my understanding the metallic taste is when ingested via the mouth or open glands such as tear ducts when it is rubbed in them. I have seen photos of zoa and palley toxin in open cuts and it looks very similar to flesh destroying venom from snakes. I think slapshot has a good idea of you guy's seeing a doctor and maybe even have some blood work done to ensure you have not had it enter your bloodstream.

[Tom Toro]

Maybe you should just pop in to your Doctors just to make sure he doesn't think you inhaled some fungus or anything. maybe a coarse of antibiotics or at least an inhaler to open things up. If your coughing stuff up something is irritating your lungs. Sooo on to a happier subject, how the new tank look?

Feel back to normal today, but I'm due for my yearly bloodwork up anyway so maybe I'll take a trip over to the doc's. Getting my 22 year old son to the doc is going to be a lot tougher.


I expect the new glass tank to show up in 3 weeks from Great Lakes. Just figured I'd better get stuff ready well before it arrives. What a mess I have over here.

[Tom Toro]

Thanks for the good words, Buddy! Today when I clean out the sand and rest of the standing water, I'm going to wear my chemical mask and I'm going to use dishwashing gloves unless you think I need something thicker. Also going to open the windows and use that Attic/gable fan that you saw in the wall just past the two tubs. It's 1350 cfm so it really pulls some air.

No more messin' around with this stuff. Not sure this old body can take another hit, lol!




Good to hear you and your son are feeling better Tom. I have read about airborne paly toxin contamination but have never experienced or new anyone who has. It was really important that you shared this very potentially dangerous situation with others. Allot of people take the real dangers of corals defense capability's lightly. It is only wise to use correct safety precautions when dealing with coral. I.E. rubber gloves, glasses good ventilation in a confined space like a basement and so fourth... Most of all glad you and your son are ok my friend !! If you need face shields or good respirators LMK. I have heard many people say you don't need to use the gloves or glasses and most times they're right nothing happens but as you have described it's that one time that makes the difference. These toxins are no joke and should be handled carefully! Once again thank god everyone's ok and thanks for sharing :thumbsup:

It is my understanding the metallic taste is when ingested via the mouth or open glands such as tear ducts when it is rubbed in them. I have seen photos of zoa and palley toxin in open cuts and it looks very similar to flesh destroying venom from snakes. I think slapshot has a good idea of you guy's seeing a doctor and maybe even have some blood work done to ensure you have not had it enter your bloodstream.

[slapshot]

Feel back to normal today, but I'm due for my yearly bloodwork up anyway so maybe I'll take a trip over to the doc's. Getting my 22 year old son to the doc is going to be a lot tougher.


I expect the new glass tank to show up in 3 weeks from Great Lakes. Just figured I'd better get stuff ready well before it arrives. What a mess I have over here.

Well the good news is Dad if you go first then he will know if he needs to go or not. LOL

[binford4000]

Glad your feeling better Tom ! So when you startin the build thread !?

[Tom Toro]

Glad your feeling better Tom ! So when you startin the build thread !?

Thanks Buddy!

Not much changing in the guts, but I am retiring the T5's. I'm waffling between Halides and LED's. LED's are the best, but way expensive unless I build 'em myself again.

I'm having trouble justifying the thousands compared to hundreds. Talk me into it, will ya?

[binford4000]

Thanks Buddy!

Not much changing in the guts, but I am retiring the T5's. I'm waffling between Halides and LED's. LED's are the best, but way expensive unless I build 'em myself again.

I'm having trouble justifying the thousands compared to hundreds. Talk me into it, will ya?

Look at the new build picks I just posted. Nothing else needs to be said. LED's rock !

[BlackGrandPrix]

Thanks Buddy!

Not much changing in the guts, but I am retiring the T5's. I'm waffling between Halides and LED's. LED's are the best, but way expensive unless I build 'em myself again.

I'm having trouble justifying the thousands compared to hundreds. Talk me into it, will ya?

Im not sure where you are getting that they are the best. I would do the halides. They only need to be run 3-4 hours a day so heat and electricity is not that bad. Plus bulbs will then last 2-3 years before needing replacement.

The best combo would be blue LEDs and halides.

[Tom Toro]

Look at the new build picks I just posted. Nothing else needs to be said. LED's rock !

I will, Bud. I've seen them in your tank and my son's and at a couple of lfs'. A whole new thing. Plus, no replacing bulbs every year at $65 x 3. I've got some thinking to do.

[Tom Toro]

Look at the new build picks I just posted. Nothing else needs to be said. LED's rock !

I will, Bud. I've seen them in your tank and my son's and at a couple of lfs'. Everybody's growing sps with 'em now too. A whole new thing. Plus, no replacing bulbs every year at $65 x 3 and mine are past due to the tune of $200. But, I can't imagine soldiering that many LED's to fill up my 8' tank. I've got some thinking to do.

By the way, Chuck, you'd have cracked up seeing me cleaning out the rest of the tank today with goggles, dual chemical mask and huge rubber gloves. Not to mention the attic fan blowing and all the windows open.

[binford4000]

I will, Bud. I've seen them in your tank and my son's and at a couple of lfs'. Everybody's growing sps with 'em now too. A whole new thing. Plus, no replacing bulbs every year at $65 x 3 and mine are past due to the tune of $200. But, I can't imagine soldiering that many LED's to fill up my 8' tank. I've got some thinking to do.

I have a 120 watt fixture and a 100 watt cannon I am not using if you want to play with em. You can build a cannon under 150 bucks now and it will be dimable. Four of these will do your tank very easily ! Get up with me next week and I will swing by and you can give it a look over, might be a good solution

[Tom Toro]

I have a 120 watt fixture and a 100 watt cannon I am not using if you want to play with em. You can build a cannon under 150 bucks now and it will be dimable. Four of these will do your tank very easily ! Get up with me next week and I will swing by and you can give it a look over, might be a good solution

You're the best, Pal! I'll take you up on that when I get this thing set up if you still have 'em. Thanks! Building four for $600 I can deal with!

[binford4000]

You're the best, Pal! I'll take you up on that when I get this thing set up if you still have 'em. Thanks! Building four for $600 I can deal with!

I will have them,no plans to part with em.lmk when your ready.