How to use Phosgard?

[Tom Toro]

Didn't want to hijack Chuck's thread so I started a new one.

Of the guys that use the Seachem Phosgard, do you use the amount indicated in the instructions or is there a safer way to begin? I haven't used any type of phosphate reducer before.

Is there a specific ratio per gallon I should begin so I don't kill things?

[Tom Toro]

Good advice that I'll take, Chris. Thanks!

[MyNemesis]

The directions on the bottle say to use a cup (or 250 ml) for every 75 - 100 gallons in a media bag. I use a third of a one litre bottle which is probably a cup and a half in the two stage BRS reactor, for probably 130 gallons total water volume. It fills the canister up about a little more than half full. I use an Eheim 1260 to run the canisters, so probably 300 gallons/hour. When you change it, you have to rinse it, cause there is some dust and also dust from the carbon. So I run it and drain a couple quarts four times and dump it. You can measure your phosphates if you are fighting a problem, and vary the quantity or frequency of changes and it is cool because the little round white pellets turn brown when they are used up.

[slapshot]

I started at 1/2 for two weeks then changed to a full dose. Then three weeks later went back to 1/2 to maintain.

[Tom Toro]

I started today with 3\4 cup in the 135g (165g total volume) and 2 cups in the 240g (400g total volume). I'll let you guys know how it works. This is half the dose (if I did the math right) and if I don't get some relief, I'll do what Don did and increase after a couple of weeks.

Thanks Folks.





I started at 1/2 for two weeks then changed to a full dose. Then three weeks later went back to 1/2 to maintain.

[binford4000]

I started today with 3\4 cup in the 135g (165g total volume) and 2 cups in the 240g (400g total volume). I'll let you guys know how it works. This is half the dose (if I did the math right) and if I don't get some relief, I'll do what Don did and increase after a couple of weeks.

Thanks Folks.

Lookin forward to your results Tom ! I am optamistic about this product after seeing sucsessful reefers using it ! Going to order two jugs on payday myself!

[binford4000]

Any results on this product to report yet Tom?

[AZDesertRat]

Make sure you change the media often as aluminum based products release captured contaminants when they get saturated unlike iron based media. The advantage to aluminum based media though is it works quicker but again since you don't want things to happen quickly in a reef tank that may not really be an advantage. I started with Phosguard but after a year switched to GFO and have been much happier with the results.

[dputt88]

sorry AZ but you have that backwards.

" PhosGuard™ is not an exchange resin, it does not release anything into the water. It does not leach phosphate or silicate back into the water and may be removed, dried, and returned to service until exhausted. "

that being said, if you own a sponge you might want to re think this, i will be moving my sponge into my macro algae tank, as they require the silicates that phosguard will be removing.

[AZDesertRat]

Thats their claim but in the drinking water industry where I have worked for 38 years it is well known aluminum medias leach contaminants when exhausted. I would like to see their research documentation showing differently.

[binford4000]

QUOTE=dputt88;160922]sorry AZ but you have that backwards.

Bazinga !

[Tom Toro]

Any results on this product to report yet Tom?

Hey Chuck, Nothing really to report. I wasn't showing any phosphates before, but I knew I had some because of the algae mess. I did a major cleaning and the algae hasn't come back yet. That's got to be a good sign. I wonder if the LR is saturated with phosphates and it takes a long time to pull it out. Maybe many cycles of the phosgard? That's the 135g. The sps weren't doing well before so I can't say if they were effected and I don't know if their downhill slide is because of my phosgard. The lps (frogspawn and brains) look a lot better for some reason. Pavonas and Hydros are kicking butt, but they must be bulletproof. Oh yeah, aiptasia are extremely healthy. I bought the aiptasia zapper and I'm having fun with it, but it's not the answer. I'd show a pic, but it's not pretty.

240g looks great! I moved the huge colonies of pink birdsnest and pocillipora over there and they are thriving. Hair algae is pretty much gone with some turf algae hanging around, but the urchins are taking care of it. Seems like I'm cleaning the front glass a lot less, but I also kicked up my biopellets another 250ml.
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o242/TomToro/P1010010-4_zpsebe82012.jpg

[binford4000]

What are you keeping your mag at Tom ? I am sure the bio pelet's are helping allot if you are upping them. They also address PO4 from what I understand. I have been keeping my mag at 1600 and have very little to no algae ever since setting up the new tank. I didn't even have the usual algae breakout of the new tank syndrome. I have been reading allot of stuff from French and German hobbiest. They are all keeping elevated mag levels and reporting less nuisance algae s . Food for thought. I also stopped useing the brs mag and switched to Kent's tech m. I am getting ready to start the phos guard this weekend. I am seeing a .05 phos level so I am going to shoot for ..01. Your new tank looks great also !

[slapshot]

Looks sweet Tom!!! I mean it sweet!

[Tom Toro]

What are you keeping your mag at Tom ? I am sure the bio pelet's are helping allot if you are upping them. They also address PO4 from what I understand. I have been keeping my mag at 1600 and have very little to no algae ever since setting up the new tank. I didn't even have the usual algae breakout of the new tank syndrome. I have been reading allot of stuff from French and German hobbiest. They are all keeping elevated mag levels and reporting less nuisance algae s . Food for thought. I also stopped useing the brs mag and switched to Kent's tech m. I am getting ready to start the phos guard this weekend. I am seeing a .05 phos level so I am going to shoot for ..01. Your new tank looks great also !

Interesting you'd mention Mag, Chuck. I've been using Tech M for about three weeks trying to kill the bryopsis so I'm keeping my mag at 1500+ on the salifert. Can't figure out how to read higher, but I've used about a gallon. I think I'll keep the mag up. Glad it's working for you, Chuck!

Since I'm showing 0 phosphates in both tanks and I know that's wrong, I think I'm going to buy a hanna tester. Is that what you use? Also, what tester are you using for Mag?

[Tom Toro]

Looks sweet Tom!!! I mean it sweet!

Thanks very much, Don!!!

[binford4000]

Interesting you'd mention Mag, Chuck. I've been using Tech M for about three weeks trying to kill the bryopsis so I'm keeping my mag at 1500+ on the salifert. Can't figure out how to read higher, but I've used about a gallon. I think I'll keep the mag up. Glad it's working for you, Chuck!

Since I'm showing 0 phosphates in both tanks and I know that's wrong, I think I'm going to buy a hanna tester. Is that what you use? Also, what tester are you using for Mag?

I use the salifert for mag. If your maxed out at 1500 just dump the vial and refill then add drops tell color change. Then add the two together. I do use a Hanna for PO4. As usual it takes time ! And your tanks lookin great ! I really like the tech M. No more mixing and it does a great job !

[slapshot]

You can also half the tank water, fill the other half with distiller water then double the result.

[BlackGrandPrix]

I love using Tech M. I do notice it solving a majority of algae problems when you get it up 1500-1700ppm.

Here is a link to Seachems test of phosguard and aluminum oxide toxicity.
http://www.seachem.com/support/AluminumSolubilityToxicity.pdf

Saying aluminum oxide leaches contaminants is very broad. What contaminants are we talking about?

[MyNemesis]

Hey Tom. I wondered the exact same thing when I was having some problems: "I wonder if the LR is saturated with phosphates and it takes a long time to pull it out." There is evidence that after time live rock can absorb phosphates and leach them back into the tank. I took out established live rock with no corals, other than mushrooms, growing on them and "cooked" them in batches, like maybe a third of the rock at a time. I should also add that I started this process after I had to tear down the rock structure in one half of my tank to catch a Powder Blue tang who turned into a turd and killed almost everything in my tank. So I disturbed the substrate and the base rocks and figured it was a good time to clean out the rock. Put them in a dark room in salt water with a heater and a good powerhead. Every time you do a water change in the aquarium, use the tank water to change the water in the cooking chamber. You should "cook" it for a good 45 days. You will not believe the amount of crap that comes out of your rock. You can add a bag of phos guard in a media bag to help speed up the process. PS. The tank looks killer!

[binford4000]

Hey Tom. I wondered the exact same thing when I was having some problems: "I wonder if the LR is saturated with phosphates and it takes a long time to pull it out." There is evidence that after time live rock can absorb phosphates and leach them back into the tank. I took out established live rock with no corals, other than mushrooms, growing on them and "cooked" them in batches, like maybe a third of the rock at a time. I should also add that I started this process after I had to tear down the rock structure in one half of my tank to catch a Powder Blue tang who turned into a turd and killed almost everything in my tank. So I disturbed the substrate and the base rocks and figured it was a good time to clean out the rock. Put them in a dark room in salt water with a heater and a good powerhead. Every time you do a water change in the aquarium, use the tank water to change the water in the cooking chamber. You should "cook" it for a good 45 days. You will not believe the amount of crap that comes out of your rock. You can add a bag of phos guard in a media bag to help speed up the process. PS. The tank looks killer!

What temp did you maintain to cook the rock? Learning not questioning. I have read about this process in the past but have not done it myself personally.i have always just replaced the rock in sections tell the aqua scape is fully replaced. Of course this also created mini cycles but when done gave us a fresh new look ! Old rock syndrome (I have no better name for it) is something to be considered for sure. I just think it is hard to determin if and when the rock has been saturated. I did this only when I was at the point of total loss of solutions. Tom you say you know that you have Po4 even tho your tests show zero. I think getting a new test is a good idea then see if the results are the same. Have you considered a bacterial problem maybe also. I know sometimes well water even water that has been ran thru a RO DI sometimes can create issues. Indications of small bubbles stuck to rock would be a sighn. Food for thought is all.

[dputt88]

having the phosphate leach from the rock would tank a very very very long time. in my ecology classes it is very well known that the phosphate cycle naturally is the slowest. and that algae blooms are caused by human interaction within the phosphate cycle and not the leaching of phosphate from phosphate rocks.

my thought on the algae blooms caused by adding rock to the tank would be that its actually dead matter on the rock, rather that phosphate leaching from the rock. frequently i have purchased dead rock that has had lichens and mosses on them. also if the rock was once alive but is dead when added to the tank there would be a LOT of dead matter that will be broken down and lead to eutrophication in a sense. also i suspects that even when adding live rock from a store that there would be a lot of die off due to shipping and constantly being handled, things like worms and pods and what not, that when added to the tank follows the same trend mentioned above. and as we know it only takes a little phosphate to make a lot of algae.

[Flynnstone]

i have a heavy bio-load in my tank, my phosphates are at .08 with two different Hanna meters. i have no algae growin in my tank period, and my cheato algea in my sump slowly dies off or just bearly maintains itself. nitrates are at zero, and i have even tried to dose nitrates.

[slapshot]

i have a heavy bio-load in my tank, my phosphates are at .08 with two different Hanna meters. i have no algae growin in my tank period, and my cheato algea in my sump slowly dies off or just bearly maintains itself. nitrates are at zero, and i have even tried to dose nitrates.

Show off!!! :) Try putting a little iron in your sump it will allow your Cheato to grow.

[BlackGrandPrix]

i have a heavy bio-load in my tank, my phosphates are at .08 with two different Hanna meters. i have no algae growin in my tank period, and my cheato algea in my sump slowly dies off or just bearly maintains itself. nitrates are at zero, and i have even tried to dose nitrates.

The ozone is probably helping alot with that. I love running ozone on my systems.

[Flynnstone]

i have added iron and potassium nitrate. i have also removed the ozone for awhile too. still no algae. this leads me to believe that you only need to eliminate either phosphates or nitrates to keep algae at bay. i have a good skimmer and alot of live rock. it seams to work.

[binford4000]

Tom,I was wondering what results you got from running this. I have been running it for a weak and was hopping to compare results. Tho my Po4 is not that high .05 my goal was to maintain my present level.I used1/2 cup in each reactor. I run two brs dual reactors. I just tested my Po4 and am glad to report a .04. I have seen no negative sighn of useing this product. It tumbles very well in the reactor and am hopping this level maintains itself. I do not strive for all zero's like many reefers. Small trace elements is what I am looking for ! I did some reading on several others forums in their chemistry forums to see if anyone else was useing it or had negative results or bad experience to report and I really didn't read anything negative about it other then AZ's input. Looking forward to your results. :oldman:

[Tom Toro]

Hey Chuck,
I'm just using media bags in high flow areas. I doubled the amount in each tank after a week and started to notice a reduction in algae. Bryopsis is gone and the hair algae is almost completely gone. My front glass goes days instead of hours without having to scrape so that's good stuff. This the 240. Corals are still pretty happy but my big pink birdsnest is fading some. Might be from the change of tank, though.

135g seems better too. Some of the corals that were heading south are gaining tissue and the algae is a lot less. Still seems like a dirty tank, though and still losing some plating corals that were dying before the Phosgard, so can't blame that.

I think I'll continue to use it as is in the 240 and up it some in the 135 since I'm switching that from sps anyway. I'd like to start with a cleaner system and all those tangs are still poopin' pretty good.

I'm very glad it's working that well for you. Awesome!!


Tom,I was wondering what results you got from running this. I have been running it for a weak and was hopping to compare results. Tho my Po4 is not that high .05 my goal was to maintain my present level.I used1/2 cup in each reactor. I run two brs dual reactors. I just tested my Po4 and am glad to report a .04. I have seen no negative sighn of useing this product. It tumbles very well in the reactor and am hopping this level maintains itself. I do not strive for all zero's like many reefers. Small trace elements is what I am looking for ! I did some reading on several others forums in their chemistry forums to see if anyone else was useing it or had negative results or bad experience to report and I really didn't read anything negative about it other then AZ's input. Looking forward to your results. :oldman:

[dputt88]

I'm running it in 3 tanks. Its been 5 days. Im running a 1/4 cup in my 90 gal. I like it, but i gotta move my sponge now.

[binford4000]

Well Tom it's been a few weeks. I am still getting Po4 readings of .04. One thing I have noticed is the polyp extra extension that I would notice when changing GFO has lasted thru the complete trial period. This is a much better result then high cap GFO. I have always noticed extension would return to normal after three or four days with GFO. So far I am happy with the results and plan to make phos guard my Po4 media from now on. Thanks to everyone who spoke up about this stuff ! :oldman:

[BlackGrandPrix]

That's great. You may be in the margin of error on the Hanna which is why it's not changing also.

I really love the phosguard over gfo.

[Tom Toro]

Well Tom it's been a few weeks. I am still getting Po4 readings of .04. One thing I have noticed is the polyp extra extension that I would notice when changing GFO has lasted thru the complete trial period. This is a much better result then high cap GFO. I have always noticed extension would return to normal after three or four days with GFO. So far I am happy with the results and plan to make phos guard my Po4 media from now on. Thanks to everyone who spoke up about this stuff ! :oldman:

That's great news, Chuck! I like it too. So when you used GFO, your corals closed up for awhile? I'm glad we're using the Phosgard.

I doubled mine in both tanks, recently and have started to see more results in the 135. Some of the sps that 'died' are coming back with tissue and polyps. I also started gutting it and took off the top layer of LR that had lots of dead sps and aips. A lot more swimming room now and room for fast growing softies. I hope they have a lot to choose from at the swap.

I isolated my sump removed my dsb (135g). Scrubbed all the LR, drained it completely, filled it with the LR and new SW only (no sand) and put it back online. So it might be a combination of things, but I'm liking the cleaner look in the dt. Still a little hair algae hanging around, though. Put another 250ml of biopellets in too. The skimmer is going nuts.

240g not much change. Put another 500ml biopellets in and added the BM250 to the other two etss. Can't believe that's pulling stuff too. I must feed too much, eh?

[binford4000]

That's great. You may be in the margin of error on the Hanna which is why it's not changing also.

I really love the phosguard over gfo.

Yeah I have been thinking the same thing.I was going to pick up a sali fret and see if it is a calibration issue. no3 are very low. It's nice not to have to clean your glass ! Lol


That's great news, Chuck! I like it too. So when you used GFO, your corals closed up for awhile? I'm glad we're using the Phosgard.

I doubled mine in both tanks, recently and have started to see more results in the 135. Some of the sps that 'died' are coming back with tissue and polyps. I also started gutting it and took off the top layer of LR that had lots of dead sps and aips. A lot more swimming room now and room for fast growing softies. I hope they have a lot to choose from at the swap.

I isolated my sump removed my dsb (135g). Scrubbed all the LR, drained it completely, filled it with the LR and new SW only (no sand) and put it back online. So it might be a combination of things, but I'm liking the cleaner look in the dt. Still a little hair algae hanging around, though. Put another 250ml of biopellets in too. The skimmer is going nuts.

240g not much change. Put another 500ml biopellets in and added the BM250 to the other two etss. Can't believe that's pulling stuff too. I must feed too much, eh?

Sounds like it's going good ! I have gone away from the DSB also and don't miss it either !! Glad to hear your sticks are recovering. You got any of that brite blue acro I gave ? Would be intrested in buying a chunk if you do. Have fun at the swap . My corals didn't close up. I always noticed when I changed my GFO the next day things would open more is all then they would return to normal after a few days is all.

[Tom Toro]

Sorry Chuck. that died awhile ago in the first sps disaster.

[dputt88]

Well its been a couple weeks since I started weaning my tanks on to it. For my 90 i believe I started with 25%, no real change in any thing but thats likely due to the low amounts added. Put a little in the hob filters of my macro cube in an attempt to get that system back on track, and it is improving but it's hard to tell if that is due to the phosguard or the large amount of display macros in thetank. I also put about 75% full dose in my 40 gal frag tank which was starting a bit of hair algae due to some dirty dead rock and it seems to have really helped, although there are many display macros being held in that drag tank as well.

Due to the high amount of macros i keep my results may not be the most reliable but I do believe it is contributing to the tanks that received a higher dose, as for the reef tank, i won't be able to say much until I add more phosguard

[binford4000]

Sorry Chuck. that died awhile ago in the first sps disaster.

No prob ! Been there done that ! Lol