question on sump return plumbing

[jstan]

So, I've got everything ready to be cemented together. However I'm questioning if I should or should not put another ball valve or maybe even a check valve into the the upper section of my return plumbing. I drew a fast sketch of how my plumbing is going to go together, and circled the area(or actually above that area, where it's hard pvc pipe, not the flexible tubing) where I could possibly use an extra ball valve or check valve. The curvy looking tubing is clear vinyl polyurethane tubing, I picked up from HD.

What do you guys/girls think ? Should I leave it as is, or should I add something extra.

http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc466/jasonstan3/12113A0A-7C8C-40E0-81D2-CCC29B732075-13937-00000F06A246D9F5.jpg

[binford4000]

Installing a check valve on an angle will do you no good. It will fail. Plastic check valves are well known for failing also. WYE makes about the only dependable check valve made for the aquarium application but must be installed in a vertical position.The by pass you are showing should allow you to adjust the volume your pump returns to the DT. If you feel you have to have another valve in the run I would suggest a gate valve which will not only allow you to isolate the return so you can easily remove the pump and also allow you to meter or adjust the returned water very easily. Ball valves are intended for quick isolation or emergency shut off. Yes you can use them but gates will last allot longer. If you do install another valve regardless of type try to install it in either the horizontal or vertical position. Good luck ! :oldman:

[jstan]

It's good to know that it will work as is, no more fussing with anything. Thnx for the info about the gate valve, will keep that in mind in the future.

[Flynnstone]

i always avoid using check valves because of failure rates. there is usually an alternative route.
i would eliminate the clear flex tubing and use pvc directly from the pump. this eliminates the male fittings that greatly reduce flow. add a union roughly 10" above the pump. this way the pump can be removed easily and seviced as required. i wouldnt cement the pieces on after the ball valve to the back to the sump. you never know what the next thing you add to this might be... ex: bio-pellets, GFO reactor

just my 2 cents

[AZDesertRat]

Check valves have no place in return plumbing as long as you have a properly designed return.
I would eliminate the return to the sump as this is an extremely poor design. In its place install a ball or gate valve directly inline so you can throttle and adjust the return flow if needed. What most people don't understand is the pump works harder when you are wasting water to the sump than if you just throttle the return flow to the display. It in no way harms the pump and in many cases makes it more efficient. It will use less power, create less heat, often run quieter and be a happy camper. When you waste flow the pump is actually doing more work since it has to pump that waste flow too as well as the return to the display so draws more power, creates more heat and makes gobs of noise.
A Kill A Watt meter will prove what I am saying. It has to do with two principles of electricity and hydraulics, Bernoulis Theory and the Laws of Affinity. Both apply to centrifugal pumps.

As you have drawn, always use clear or braided vinyl rubing right off the pump, either with a union at the pump then the barbed nipple which I prefer or with the ball valve on the pump then clear tubing so you have something to break up the vibrations and sound transmission of solid PVC and have a place to take apart to clean the pump.

[binford4000]

By passing your pump is not a bad idea. I have been a pipe fitter for almost 30 years and a journeyman for 25 of those years. By passing the return is best way to get the max life of your pump. I do agree that that the barbs will reduce your flow some but not enough to really matter for your application. Clear line has one down side. It usually develops algae. When I use tubeing in an aquarium I usually use the black. There's nothing really wrong with what you have planed Jason. Stick to YOUR game plan. It's your build and in the end it's all that matters ! Looking forward to seeing it done .

[AZDesertRat]

Binford, as a water and pump professional with 37 years under my belt I can't disagree more. Get a Kill A Watt meter and monitor both a pump going to waste and one with a ball valve inline regulating the flow. The inline valve method will consume less power meaning the pump is doing less work and will last longer. The reading is long but Bernouli spells it out in great detail as do the Laws of Affinity. It was hard for me to grasp myslef but a centrifugal only works as hard as you make it. As you add head the work required goes down not up as you would believe. When you are wasting to the sump you are pumping more GPH which is more work and taxes the pump more. Sounds backwards but its fact.

[binford4000]

Well believe what you want dude. I am not going to fight about it. You are a water softener treatment guy. Great ! I am only someone who builds nuke power plants and high pressure piping systems for coal power plants and stuff like that. Your wisdom and experience out weighs mine by leaps and bounds on this subject !

Thanks for the video Jason , glad it worked out so well ! Offer stands also,if you need a hand I am only 20 minutes away

[AZDesertRat]

No, Actually I am a Senior Engineer/Operations Specialist for the largest purely water/wastewater engineering firm in the US. I started my career drilling wells and specifying pumps in 1974 then worked for the largest full service pump company in the southwest for 5 years before moving into municipal water system management for 25 years before taking early retirement and moving to the engineering side. I train operators and do start up and troubleshooting on major water and wastewater facilities including 15+ MGD RO systems.

Read the two principles I cited. They quit installing pump bypasses in the early 1960's when energy starting becoming a concern. Today all major water systems use control valves, basically the same as a ball or gate valve or better yet variable frequency drives to control pumps. Wasting water is both hard on pumps and a waste of energy.