Adding Oxygen tank to improve PH?

[turtle]

Adding medical oxygen tank feed to skimmer for PH Stability - will this work??

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I am in the process of adding a Calcium reactor, but my main concern is my low PH.
average is currently only 7.9 which can dip down to 7.71 overnight. I boost it back up with Kalk and soda ash. My question is this : Will the Calcium reactor drive down the pH even further?? Or make it more stable?
I had been using BRS 2 part, with poor results.
I started making my own soda ash, and have found that you need to bake for 2 hrs at 400 to drive out most of the c02. (had bad results after baking at 300F for one hour, pH rose more sowly and dropped quicker)
I've also been using Kalk to push out the C02 which has been driving my pH down. (mix refil water to .035 then add lots of Kalk water to bring up the PH) Soda ash alone will not keep the pH up for very long, causing my alk to run high up to 16 DK max. is what I allow.
Another problem is my salt mix which I recently switched. Instant ocean with my RO water comes in at avg 7.80 (too much cheap baking soda - sodium Bicarbonate in mix) their reef crystals seems a bit better, but have not used enough to say the pH is much better in the mixed water.
I recently added more plant material to a fuge, which seem to die off inmy tank maybe due to low phosphates. Does little anyway, even with a bubbler below the algae.
I have a heavily SPS dominated 120 gal in a basement tank, which is why my pH is so low probably. Ii think I would have better growth if I could get the pH to stay around 8.2 but have not been able to do this.

Anyway, here is my theory

I have an idea that if c02 drives pH down, then adding oxygen such as a medical oxygen tank and running a line to my skimmer would add the badly needed oxygen to my tank and cause the pH to raise. I am assuming that adding oxygen would drive out the pH similar to the way the Kalk does but better. I would add the pure oxygen at a very slow rate to counter the effects of my Calcium reactor. Maybe use a bubble counter and valve setup like on the C02 tanks. Run it with my apex to only come on when the pH is below 8.10

Will this work?
Has anyone ever tried this before??

I cannot run an outside line BTW

Yes oxygen is flamable, I would add slowly and not really worry about the extra oxygen in my C02 heavy basement.

I have also thought about adding lots of potted plants to increase oxygen in the room, but am doubtful this would do much for my pH in the lg room.
Also thought about C02 absorbing media in the skimmer airline, but this may not be the cheapest way to go due to the cost of the media.

Please let me know you thoughts...
Thanks,

Mark

[slapshot]

Never done it but can't see why it would not work

[binford4000]

I run a air line to my skimmers. It does not have to go outside. If you have a drafty window it will more then do the job. It really limited my PH swing between light cycles. The calcium reactor should allow you to dial in your Ph tho? You said you doased 2 part with poor results. Which type of calcium doase did you use ? I understand you used soda ash for alk but you should be useing calcium chloride to archive a ph upto 8.4ish if you have hight ph use sodium bicarbonate to bring it down.. I don't really think adding pure oxygen is a must. A good skimmer will reoxygenate the water column well enough. If you use vinyl tube and draw fresher air then what's around your skimmer it will help allot. Good luck. :oldman:

[slapshot]

I run a air line to my skimmers. It does not have to go outside. If you have a drafty window it will more then do the job. It really limited my PH swing between light cycles. The calcium reactor should allow you to dial in your Ph tho? You said you doased 2 part with poor results. Which type of calcium doase did you use ? I understand you used soda ash for alk but you should be useing calcium chloride to archive a ph upto 8.4ish if you have hight ph use sodium bicarbonate to bring it down.. I don't really think adding pure oxygen is a must. A good skimmer will reoxygenate the water column well enough. If you use vinyl tube and draw fresher air then what's around your skimmer it will help allot. Good luck. :oldman:

Sorry bin but you got something's mixed up that need a little correcting. First calcium chloride is used to keep the calcium level up not the ph. Then sodium bicarbonate will raise your ph not lower it.

[binford4000]

Sorry bin but you got something's mixed up that need a little correcting. First calcium chloride is used to keep the calcium level up not the ph. Then sodium bicarbonate will raise your ph not lower it.

I did get that backwards. Oops ! Sorry.. I did mean what your saying tho. Rofl
I should have proof read that one! So what your saying and What I was trying to say is with calcium chloride and soda ash doaseing you should be seeing a 8.4 ish ph. If it doesn't go higher use sodium bicarbonate to Raise it.Thanks for the correction shot ! This I pad is driving me nuts! :duh:

[turtle]

I was thinking that sodium Bi carbonate baking soda will lower PH. If you bake it at 400 degrees for 2 hours, then you drive off the C02. At this point it becomes Sodium Carbonate, or soda ash which raises the PH.

Is this correct?

[jimsflies]

How do your corals look? Is there a reason, other than trying to chase the perfect pH for doing anything? You can drive yourself mad trying to have a perfect day and night pH...not to mention risk other bad things happening to your reef. If the corals look good, I would leave well enough alone.

I am not sure that increasing dissolved O2 levels will result in lower dissolved CO2 (carbonic acid) levels. In the aeration process, its not the oxygen that's doing the work in removing carbon dioxide. This has more to do with the physical air/water interface and oxygen/carbon dioxide reaching an equilibrium with their own levels in the air/water (via diffusion). While it rarely occurs, I think it may be possible to have high oxygen and high carbonic acid levels in water.

turtle if you get a chance, please start a Members Reef thread (http://www.captivereefs.com/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=81) and tell us more about your reef setup.

[binford4000]

I was thinking that sodium Bi carbonate baking soda will lower PH. If you bake it at 400 degrees for 2 hours, then you drive off the C02. At this point it becomes Sodium Carbonate, or soda ash which raises the PH.

Is this correct?

I have always been under the impression that soda ash is used to raise your alk levels.alk and Ph do relate to each other tho. What is your alk usually at ? Just for giggles tho I was at cherry coral the other weekend and was told they keep their ph in the 7's for LPS . Just food for thought. Jim has a very good point. If it ain't broke is worth fixing ?

[dentdominator]

I've had great luck using both kalk and alk! I control the Geo kalk reactor via Apex using the PH probe to monitor the tank. Once the tank goes below 8.30 the kalk kicks on and kicks off at 8.31, by the time the PH probe reads it it's around 8.37. It only comes on at night when the lights turn off. This also works as a secondary ATO.Then I use the BRS 1.1ml to dose alkalinity throughout the day.The 2 skimmers are also drawing air from outside.

[redemer123]

Sounds like a lot of work for nothing being wrong. Instead of hooking your tank up to pure O2 like it has emphysema, try pointing some power heads at the surface, that's usually what people do for better gas exchange. Assuming their tank having a pH of 7.9 bothers them that much.

[turtle]

I am mainly concerned with a few of my millies doing poorly currently. I lost a few frags after my PH dropped around the 7.71 range.
At around 6.5 sps corals cannot lay down calcium, at that PH the crushed coral media melts in my reactor.

Some of my monties, polker star and rainbow monti are also doing poorly, portions dying off. Also lost my blue millies. No noticible problems on other sps except very very slow growth.

[jimsflies]

I am mainly concerned with a few of my millies doing poorly currently. I lost a few frags after my PH dropped around the 7.71 range.
At around 6.5 sps corals cannot lay down calcium, at that PH the crushed coral media melts in my reactor.

Some of my monties, polker star and rainbow monti are also doing poorly, portions dying off. Also lost my blue millies. No noticible problems on other sps except very very slow growth.

It may be worth noting that the pH scale is logarithmic...meaning the difference between 7.71 and 6.5 is significant.

pH is the measurement of hydrogen ions in solution.


[H+](@pH 6.5) = 0.0000003162

[H+](@pH 7.71) = 0.00000007762

so it is roughly 4.5 times more hydrogen ions at 6.5 than 7.71.

The biggest point is, that you'd have to overdose something acidic or have something bazaar happen to get to the 6.5 level. 7.71 is pretty normal unless you are dosing alkalinity to keep it up.

Maintaining alkalinity at a consistent level is probably the most important aspect besides nutrients to keeping sps corals.

I would also add that you want to be sure your probes are calibrated and test kits are accurate particularly if you are going to make changes based on the readings.

Since this thread is now a couple weeks old, how are things looking? Hopefully better?

[turtle]

I purchased an oxygen tank last week and ran the line into my skimmer all day long increasing the setting for oxygen concentration. It had absolutely no effect on my PH. I was surprised, expecting it to raise at least slightly as people experienced when they ran an air line outdoors.

It only cost $35, so it was worth the experient. My fish seem to be breathing easier, and someof the corals expaned their polyps more than normal. Guess I expected it to work opposite of the way C02 works in my calcium reactor; raising my PH. Guess I can use it to help aerate fresh salt water mix.

I lost my red planet milli after a few more nights down to 7.71. Just pealed away, never had luck with that coral, second time I lost that coral. Everything else looks OK. My tank wants to sink to that Low PH level contantly. I got rid of my dosing pumps and disconected the calcium reactor, which seemed to make the PH worse. I will put it back on line when I get my PH under control.

I modified a few inexpensive rio pumps deliver the Alk faster, and added a kalk stir last week. This seems to give me a little more control over the PH. I can give it a quick boost from my phone now if I notice it getting low. I am trying to get it to stay around 8.00 by dosing schedule.

[CalmSeasQuest]

There are simple ways to increase pH if the cause is excess CO2 including reverse lighting a sump with Cheato, running the skimmer intake line outside, 2-part dosing also helps (at least the Alk part) and Kalk dosed top-off water..

I use a simple Soda-Lime CO2 scrubber. It works great (I average a 0.20 pH increase.) It's virtually no maintenance and inexpensive - On my small small tank (~70 gal) and skimmer, the media lasts about 9 months Replacement color changing media (Soda Lime (http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-color-changing-medical-grade-co2-absorbent.html)) is readily available. You can use any canister filter instead of purchasing a commercial unit.

For me, it was a simple (and cheap) way to resolve my pH issues that is stable and does not alter other water chemistry (i.e Alk or CA.).

[turtle]

I took your advise and ordered the soda lime from BRS. A while back, I was told that the media only lasted a few days and was very expensive which is why I tried the O2 tank test for this result.

Hope it works on mine>

Thanks.

[HeiHei29er]

There are simple ways to increase pH if the cause is excess CO2 including reverse lighting a sump with Cheato, running the skimmer intake line outside, 2-part dosing also helps (at least the Alk part) and Kalk dosed top-off water..

I use a simple Soda-Lime CO2 scrubber. It works great (I average a 0.20 pH increase.) It's virtually no maintenance and inexpensive - On my small small tank (~70 gal) and skimmer, the media lasts about 9 months Replacement color changing media (Soda Lime (http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-color-changing-medical-grade-co2-absorbent.html)) is readily available. You can use any canister filter instead of purchasing a commercial unit.

For me, it was a simple (and cheap) way to resolve my pH issues that is stable and does not alter other water chemistry (i.e Alk or CA.).

I use the soda lime reactor as well, and +1 on all the comments above regarding ease of use. My tank is in a basement and the excess CO2 can build up, especially if the kids have friends over and they're down there all day and night. I get about a 0.3 pH unit bump (8.0-8.1 up to 8.3-8.4) from using the soda lime (run my skimmer air through a DIY reactor with the media in it).

I started with the 2 Little Fishies product from BRS, but was going through a container every 4-6 weeks (depending on how much time the kids were in the basement) (150 gallon tank). Someone pointed me to this product. Same performance and significantly cheaper.

Anesthesia Products : Soda Lime, 3 lb. bag (http://www.shopmedvet.com/product/soda-lime-3-lb-bag)