refugium/sump diy

[carpenterwrasse]

HELP.....I have done this twice now with semidisasterous result.....I want to build my own but the silicone keeps letting go and my baffles just fall down does anyone have any good why that i can keep these from shifting...I am useing a 20 tank with a polymer silicone and 1/4 lexian for the baffles and i am just about to put my foot through the whole damn thing.

[reefgeek]

do these fall out after the sump is up and running ? if the answer is no and they fall out while trying to build than proceed...

OK first things first.... you have to go slow... You need to get your first baffles in place to make this easy. do this by stabilizing them with a couple of pieces of something heavy used on both sides of the baffle to hold it vertical, and to the bottom of the tank. I used books/magazines. Put your silicone on the baffle and get it into place and let it set overnight/12 hours. After you do this get some styrofoam from whatever packaging you can find. Your gonna need to cut blocks out of it. Cut them to 1" high, and about 1.75" wide and about 2" long. It will look like a rectangular cube. Cut a slit in it about 1/4" deep in the middle running the length of the block and place the baffle edge in this styrofoam slit. Put your silicone on the baffle edges and place this #2 baffle in the tank. Slide your styrofoam block all the way to the other baffle, by making them 1.75" you create a 3/4" gap between baffles and your slit you made will give you a 3/4" height off the bottom. use a couple of other styrofoam blocks on the top edge of the #1 baffle up against the #2 baffle to keep the top @ 3/4" distance too. Just put something to hold pressure against # 2 to put pressure against the styrofoam. Again let this set up for 12 hours or so. After this sets up just pull the styrofoam out by breaking it apart from underneath baffle # 2. Baffle #3 is done kind of like the first one, except, this time you wont need styrofoam on the bottom as the baffle will be glued to the bottom of the tank. Cut some more of those blocks the same dimension, and use the same 1/4" deep slit on the block. put this on the top of the #3 baffle, and place it up against the #2 baffle so you have a 3/4" gap. After you have test fit the last baffle glue in as normal, and set the styroam block/spacer against #2. Let it set and after this one cures you now have a 6 baffle sump (pending that you made 2 chambers) thats how I did it, and it worked perfect...

PS while gluing the #2 and # 3 baffles you can also tip the tank so the baffles are horizontal resting on the foam, and this works great too. If the foam sticks, try a coat hanger bent and gaf it out

I hope this is what you wanted...

RG

[davejnz]

Lexan/plastics dont bond well with silicon.Try useing glass baffles instead.If you must use the lexan,scuff it up really good on its edges where the silicon goes.

[dakar]

Agreed, if you are not quite adept at cutting your own glass for the baffles you can have glass cut to size for dirt cheap at HD or most other local hardware stores or glass shops.... you'll find it much easier to work with.

[carpenterwrasse]

well after already paying for the lexan i would like to use it but I want something that will work.....I thought the lexan would be better.....live and learn. My home depot will not cut glass so a glass shop i go

[carpenterwrasse]

no the baffles fall out after the sumps running to answer a preveious question.

[perpetual98]

it drives me absolutely insane when people say that you can't use acrylic baffles in a sump because "silicone and acrylic won't "bond"

Total rubbish. If you lay down a good enough bead of silicone to the glass tank, you only need marginal adhesion to the silicone for something as simple as a sump. I've never had a problem with 1/4" acrylic siliconed into my sumps. In fact, to test my last one out, I let it cure for a couple of days and I actually picked the entire sump up by the baffles.

[reefgeek]

CW, thats what I thought (falling over up and running)... you have been around here for a while, and I figured you were dialed.

CW you could also have yourself some glass strips cut say 3/4" by 12" and glue them to the side to make a channel for the lexan to slide into.... might be kind of trick also for cleaning purposes. The next one I do, this is how I will do it. Kind of like slotted shelves that fit in to a channel...

My glass shop cut me 6 baffles, and it only cost me 6 bucks... Not to shabby.

[sticky]

Has anyon ever tried using plexiglass?

[carpenterwrasse]

plexi is too flimsy, Try the lexan a little more expensive but it doesn't have the give that plexi has. i was thinking the slotted route or at least spacers. and i did let it cure for DAYS actually I think it sat for 2 weeks before i put a rop of water in it but the 2 that let lose didn't have as much silicone as the 2 that are still in place but i haven't touched them for fear of them letting go...I am going to give it another try and this time i am gluing the $#@% out of them peices it will take a whale splashing around in thre after this time

[lReef lKeeper]

i used plexiglass (1/8" to be exact) and a but load of silicone and like perpetual98 i can pic it up by the baffles if i need to (but why would i)?the key is all in the silicone bead. my bead looks good on the outside but is FAT on the inside. and with my floss and foam filters between the baffles there is absolutly no room for them to flex or bend. hope this helps as i also have a 20gal sump/fuge (glass) and plastic baffles.

[carpenterwrasse]

well i agree the amount of goo is the difference, but lets say i use glass for my baffles do i use 1/8 or 3/16 glass?

[dakar]

You could probably get away with 1/8 depending on how large the chambers are, but 3/16" might be a little better to stay on the safe side.

[lReef lKeeper]

i would go with 1/8" because it IS glass and glass does not have the same "bending" characteristics as a plastic. in other words glass does not bend.

[davejnz]

LOL,didn't mean to drive you insane Eric.It'll work like mentioned,it just isn't a strong bond.1/8" glass is what i used in my sump becuase thats what HD had and would cut for me.

[sticky]

I used 1/8 Plexi to create some simple baffles in my CPR Ref. I am going to make some more tonight for the tank and they work great. I didn't use tons of aquarium glue to hold it, and the first baffle holds LR rubble.

I am happy with the way it turned out, but I have some different designs that would improve the setup incase they ever give way.

[dakar]

I just disassembled some old 10g critter and fish tanks that were cracked or something and zipped the glass down to the sizes I needed.... probably more work than savings but at least I was able to get rid of the tanks. They were 3/16", pretty stout for a 10g.

*Hi I'm Dave, and I'm a packrat* Only 11 more steps to go.

[carpenterwrasse]

my local h.d. sucks none cut any glass

[dakar]

That bites, sounds like a good time to learn how to use a glass cutter ;) Not too difficult to do.

[carpenterwrasse]

you buy the glass i'll practice

[davejnz]

C-wrasse.1/8" glass is very cheap.A glass cutter isn't too expensive either.I've seen it done and there's really not much to it.I'm sure Dakar could give you the run down on the procedure.If you'd rather not do it,glass shops don't charge that much to do it either.I paid $10 at the glass shop to have them cut 4 pieces of 1/4" glass for my horizontal overflow.

[carpenterwrasse]

I got a price of 8.00 for 4 peices..i'm going to try and glue it again with the scuff method and if that doesn't work i will be going glass.

[Reptoreef]

Did ya see my DIY thread on sumps???

[carpenterwrasse]

it would be a consideration if i didn't already have all the parts that i have the glass would be the only real expense since i already had all the parts before i started....Tank was a giveme and lexan i had lieing around from another job and the same for the silicone....My wife doesn't like me spending money when i don't have to....

[stonepilot]

go to a glass store.

[JustDavidP]

For what it's worth...

I found that MY only problem with using Lexan/Plexiglas is that it is not rigid enough. The "bond" is NOT what typically goes. Through trial and error, I found that what happens is that the baffle actually BOWS from the water pressure and eventually pops out. (I've never had a "raised" baffle blow..they simply do not have enough pressure on them) IT IS TRUE that silicone doesn't bond well with plexi/lexi..but it is good enough for our applications if it is thick enough. It is the bow that causes the baffle to pop out of that bond. Not the bond breaking down.

In my new SUMPZILLA, I used glass for the refugium side and Plexiglas for the baffles. All baffles were 1/4 inch except for the first, that takes all the pressure from the overflow. That one is 3/4 and is going NOWHERE :)

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d176/JustDavidP/Fuged.jpg

Dave

[carpenterwrasse]

my first mistake was not useing enough silicone on the raised baffle and third baffle the 1st and last(where the water came in and went out) held fine. But then again i didn't try my luck with trying to move them too much..on the good note since my sump cracked last night i will be rebuilding sooner than later( good for me bad for the floor and carpet and ****ed the wife off good also)

[JustDavidP]

OUCH!

[carpenterwrasse]

tell me about it the wifes still *****en about the wet floor

[lReef lKeeper]

Tank was a giveme and lexan i had lieing around from another job and the same for the silicone....My wife doesn't like me spending money when i don't have to....

I know how that goes man, i have a wife like that too. if she didn't look so good i would trade her in for another tank. lol

[carpenterwrasse]

The tank was techincally here before she was so.......

[Fally]

Use Weld-on instead of silicone.

[JustDavidP]

Hiya Fally....

They can't use Weld-on. In the first post, the author notes that it is a 20 gallon glass tank.

For those who don't know about Weld-on... it is a product used to FUSE acrylic. It doesn't really glue, but causes the acrylic to melt and fuse together. It will not do the same with glass.

Dave

[unleashed]

For what it's worth...

I found that MY only problem with using Lexan/Plexiglas is that it is not rigid enough. The "bond" is NOT what typically goes. Through trial and error, I found that what happens is that the baffle actually BOWS from the water pressure and eventually pops out. (I've never had a "raised" baffle blow..they simply do not have enough pressure on them) IT IS TRUE that silicone doesn't bond well with plexi/lexi..but it is good enough for our applications if it is thick enough. It is the bow that causes the baffle to pop out of that bond. Not the bond breaking down.

In my new SUMPZILLA, I used glass for the refugium side and Plexiglas for the baffles. All baffles were 1/4 inch except for the first, that takes all the pressure from the overflow. That one is 3/4 and is going NOWHERE :)

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d176/JustDavidP/Fuged.jpg

Dave [pay very close attention to watching this sump i found out the hard way about using acrylic for baffles in a glass tank .ypu are very correct about the plexi bowing but what you havent noticed as of yet the preasure changes due to the bowing glass wont bow so it ends up breaking,we built out first simp this way and thought it was great planning until the preasure split out the end of the sump 85 gal of sump water ended up on my kitchen floor.good luck with that set up