wave maker?

[segraves1]

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=10668&ref=3532&subref=AR&N=2004+113782
Switching Current Water Director (SCWD)
* Produces waves with your existing pump
* The most energy-efficient wavemaker available
* Bi-directional water movement


SCWD uses your existing pump to create bi-directional water movement in your reef aquarium. Plumbed inline, SCWD directs incoming water to two alternating outputs, switching automatically at a rate depending on incoming pressure. It delivers quiet, smooth operation, and is clog-resistant. Features low back pressure so there

[Fatman]

That one looks good, but I was more interested in this one.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4783&N=2004+113782

[Dirt4dinner]

I have the Wave Master Pro and I really like it. There are many who claim it is tough on pumps to turn them on and off like that. I noticed that a few of my pumps made a bad buzzing noise on startup and that was annoying, but not the machines fault. It just depends on what your pumps sound like when they turn on wether it will bother you or not. I might have mine for sale soon, as I understand Seios are the worst for startup noise, and I am going to be running 4 seios in my new tank. If I decide I don't like the noise I will be selling the wave maker.

[dakar]

There has been quite a bit of fuss over the SCWD's, the concept is great however they seem to really need a high volume pump to overcome the head pressure created by the switching mechanism and reports have it they appear prone to a rather short life span, or at least requiring very regular maintenace as a preventative to failing. Means regularly removing it from the return system for cleaning, since it's almost always below the water level the odds of a very wet floor/carpet go up dramatically.

Overall turnover in the tank has been reconsidered by the 'experts' in the field and the opinion is that a turnover rate in the order of 30-40 times the tank volume to be more beneficial not only for stony coral but for all, provided the overall flow is of a wide dispersal pattern and not laminar streams just blasting away at certain areas of the tank.

From that, currently we have a pair of the Seio M1500's plus the two return pumps brings up the turnover to a little over 4000gph in our 180, so we are going to add another pair of them (likely the M2600s) in the next week or so to double the current turnover rate and create some chaotic turbulance. The tank is heavily populated and fed often so this should help keep excess organics and things suspended in the water column much longer to be skimmed away.

--Tyler, I like the new avatar!

[davejnz]

I agree with Dakar on the Squids.They do put extra head pressure on pumps causing a reduction in flow rate.If not cleaned bi-monthly,they seem prone to failure from calcium buildup.I recently read a thread discussing velocity/flow rates/head pressure with SQUIDS.Seems 700GPH is optimal for this device.Of course,your gonna need about 1100-1200gph@0' head pump to achieve that.
The QuietOne4000 is rated at 1017gph@0'.In my tank i have the same pump.With 3-elbows,2-45's,and 1" PVC @4' head i'm doing 720ish.I think with the additional pressure from the SQUID,it would bring that down to550ish.The flow chart for the QuietOne4000(high head pressure version) pump claims 900gph@4' head so after SQUID loss,that should put you close to the 700gph mark.A MAG12 would be another choice.
AS for the wavemakers,I wouldn't waste my money on one.All they do is turn your pumps/powerheads off and on.In most tanks,they don't have nowhere near enough flow as it is.Why would you then want to cycle your pumps on and off so now only 2 of your 4 powerheads are on at 1 time.For the cost of that wavemaker in the link above,you could buy a closed loop pump and really be able to provide some current.

[Fatman]

Dave whats this "SQUID" you speak of, I think I remember you mentioning it but just provide some links maybe?

[Whoyah]

I recently built a Close Loop using a Mag 9 and SCWD. I am not exactly impressed with the out put of the system. It is cool to have the jets turn off but the amout of output is pretty low for the amount of money I spent.

One of the major problem I ran into was getting the input and output lines balanced so that the pump would not captivate (sp?) or chatter. All said and done I probably spent roughly $80 dollars on just PVC piping and tubing. I actually built two different inputs and outputs before I found a set-up that worked. I spent several weeks just designing, building, gluing and testing everything before I found some that was just OK.

Between the cost of the piping, pump and SCWD, I could have bought some really nice high output power heads that I could have just installed and enjoyed from day one.

[davejnz]

Squid,meant SQWD.Its a mechanically driven switching device that is plumbed on to your return line.The SQWD switches its output from left to right about every 7 seconds.

[segraves1]

WOW....so.....a 150gal tank.....to really have a "good flow"....I'm looking at 6000gph?

[davejnz]

yeah,sounds about right to me.That will bring you to a 40x turnover which is about what i use in my moderate flow LPS tank.

[segraves1]

yeah,sounds about right to me.That will bring you to a 40x turnover which is about what i use in my moderate flow LPS tank.


LMAO..in your MODERATE FLOW LPS TANK? How much do you consider a "high flow tank"?

[dakar]

LMAO..in your MODERATE FLOW LPS TANK? How much do you consider a "high flow tank"?

High flow can only be obtained through the use of a jet turbine engine driving a 21 pitch propeller :D

[segraves1]

High flow can only be obtained through the use of a jet turbine engine driving a 21 pitch propeller :D


LMFAO......


I keep reading everyone saying "Seio pumps are the best".......but all I can find for Seio pumps are in tank circulation pumps (though there is a 2600gph pump....).....is this what everyone is using?

I'm looking for a really good return pump (or pumps) for my 150gal.....what do I use?

[davejnz]

I wouldn't say that SEIOS are the best,they're just affordable.I think the $$$ Tunze pumps probably are considered the best in-tank pumps/powerheads.
As for your return/flow rates for the tank,Dont worry about the "x"turnover rate.Depending on the footprint of the 150,10 outputs/sources for water movement might be enough.I'd go with a MAG 18 or QO6000(affordable pumps)for a "really good"one,the Japanese Iwakis are considered one of the best.Look for something thats gonna do 1200ish@4-5'head.Split the sump return into 2-1"-600gph outputs/returns.Then I'd buy an external pump to use for a closed loop return manifold.Something about 3000gph after plumbing restriction/head loss.You could plumb 8 outputs on the return manifold,each flowing about 365gph.That would give you 10 outputs,each of which will be capable of moveing alot of water at low velocity.

[dakar]

David hit it right on the head.... the Seio pumps are cost effective, they move huge amounts of water and so far they have proven themselves to be reliable for constant running. The initial investment is easier on the wallet, if they were to need replacing every few years I think I'd come out ahead. As far as I know the M2600 is currently the largest powerhead on the market for water movement.

Tunze would fall into more of a premium setup, but you are looking at some substantial cash for them, but the controllers and such allow some pretty cool effects.

[segraves1]

ok....so tell me if I'm understanding this.......

a 1200gph return pump from the sump, split off to 2 returns in the tank (2 inputs)....(or I guess I could just use 2, 600gphs...1 on each return....and then I have "backup" if one pump dies while I'm out of town the other keeps running)

a 3000gph external pump (or 2 1500gphs) just cycling water out and then back into the pump through 8-10 inputs.....

if need be, some intank pumps to move extra water around

[davejnz]

Read this thread on my 75,i have a closed loop with return manifold.You have 2-1.5" bulkheads as feeds/intakes to the closed loop pump.Then on the return of the pump,you plumb a return manifold which has 8 outputs(T fittings).
edit-that pic was way too dark in the thread,i brightened it up a bit so you can see the basics of a return manifold.
http://www.captivereefing.com/showthread.php?t=973

[davejnz]

Seagraves,disregard the QO6000,its not strong enough(800gph with 1" pipe) even with 1.5" plumbing(1000gph).The MAG18 only does 948gph at 4' head from the sump,useing 1" pipe and dual outputs(you plumb up to the top of the tank,install a T fitting,then plumb over to the corners.From the corners,use elbow fittings to go inside the tank,then elbows to go down into the water.Once the outputs are in the water,you can use 45's as nozzles and can swivel them if you don't glue them).When i ran the pump #'s,I used this style of plumbing arrangement(4-elbows,1-T,4-45's,and 4' of vertical head from sump)to come up with the total head loss/flow rate.If you use 1.25" pipe,your flow jumps from 948gph to 1168gph.With 1.5",your up to 1236.64gph isn't enough of an improvement to validate useing the larger,bulky 1.5" pipe.

[segraves1]

so you guys are all using "in tank" type pumps (submersible pumps)? why those vs. external pumps?

I had been looking at using something like the TurboSea 1090 or equivalent.......my thought process says external pumps would have higher flow and last longer due to their design being based on industrial pumps (but I could be entirely wrong in this case)......

what’s the best way to go and why?

[davejnz]

I've seen submersible pumps 8yrs old and still running strong.The Japanese Iwaki's external pumps are known to give many years of service too.I think the biggest reason why most use submersible,magnetic driven pumps is there efficiency and they're much more affordable than externals.

[rickm]

Well my 2 cents on the SCWD, I've had one for 5 months and it works great. I have a Mag 9.5 for a return pump and I still had to throttle it back.For the money you can't beat it,if it breaks either replace it or throw a Y connecter in it's place. I just recently took it off and ran it in some water and vinegar, no water on the floor taking it off, it's all in how you plumb it. It's like anything if you do the maintenance it can only help prolong it's life.Did I have to clean it? I don't know but I felt it couldn't hurt. As far as head pressure, once again it's all in your plumbing.If you use hard pipe with short radius 90's, well then guess what it's going to cut down on your flow.I also have a Red Sea WaveMaster running my MJ's, no problems there either and I'm lucky if I have a turnover rate of 23 times. Would I wan't or feel it necessary to increase it to this new high standard of 40 or 50...nope. I like to actually see my fish able to swim in the tank and not blown from one end to the other. So far my SPS are doing just fine with this turnover rate.

[davejnz]

Indeed,90's will cut your flow.I've never seen any comparisons on flow rates between hard and flexible plumbing though.What really puts a strain on your pump is 3/4" pipe/tubing.MAG rates there pumps with 1.5" pipe,its kind of misleading IMO to the consumer who buys them and uses 3/4" flex/vinyl tubing to plumb with.
A MAG9 will do 600gph at 4' head with 3/4" plumbing and a 3/4" return.The return you can get with the SQWD or most LFS have only a 1/2" output which puts even more head pressure on the pump.SQWD claims to have a 90% efficiency rate at 600-700gph.If their claims are correct,with a 600gph input,your output will be 540gph.
Take the same pump,plumbed with 1.25" PVC useing elbows and 45's,and your at 800gph.Personally,I'd rather have a mass volume of water flowing in my tank than less volume at a higher velocity.