Help with ID pics posted

[dsfdbutterfly]

I went on the hunt last night to figure out what was attacking my Zoa's. They are all now closed shut. While looking over the colony I noticed what I think were nudibranch's. The body was a grey color and the spikes were colored bright green. I counted 6 believe it or not. So I grabbed them and pulled them out. Wrong thing to do. They all dissapeared and now I fear that my other colony in the back will come under attack soon. How do you remove these guys? They are all very small and once I get into the tank there is no way to get a hold of them. I tried tweezers on the one I spotted still in the tank after this.

To make matters worse I began dissecting the rock to see if there were any I could save. I ran across a few other things to my surprize. I removed a few LARGE bristle worms. One being longer than 12" and good sized. I also came across a few brown worms. They don't come out of the rock at all. They slink in and out of themselves like those toys that you roll through your hands and it's filled with jell and usually some glitter. I also found a small brittle star that I'm not sure isn't green. He doesn't have the bands on him like the other ones I've seen in the tank. I also found a crab who is missing one of his claws but even though his small size I can tell they are pointed and not a good sign. I also came across a few sand dollar like stars. I have no idea if they are good or bad? Anyone with a possible id. I don't want to kill anything that deserves life in a reef tank. The tops of them are bumpy and they have three longer arms and three shorter ones. The one sticking to the glass sort of has the appearance of a marajuana plant leaf.

Any thoughts, id's or possible comments are welcome. Thanks, Angie

[Dirt4dinner]

Angie,
I don't know what any of that stuff is exactly...but MY GOD you must have been busy to hunt that stuff down and actually catch it all. Your a maniac! I can hardle catch the Live Rock itself in my tank...let alone something that can actually move.

[lReef lKeeper]

1) looks to me like a green brittle star, not sure about the small star but i know i have quite a few of those also, i was told that they wont get big enough to worry about (they hitch a ride on anything from rock to aragonite). 2) also looks like a nudibranch to me, the question is "what kind" of nudibranch. i have a few of these little suckers in my reefthat im trying to catch also. i'll let you know how to do it when i figure out a trick. 3) nice work getting the crab and bristle worms out, (the bristle worms wont hurt anything though), but they do look kinda crappy.

[perpetual98]

Leave the stars, flush the crab and the worms. Hard to tell with the nudi from the pick, but you might as well flush that too.

[dsfdbutterfly]

Thanks guys for your quick response. I was able to go through my old pictures and pull up one that low and behold has the nudibranch's on it. The best one to see is the one on the left hand side of the picture. First Zoa from the bottom. They are still in the tank and I have no idea how to rid myself of these guys.

Tyler, it was no easy task and I'm sure that I did more damage than necessary to grab all these guys.

Bobby, maybe we can work together to get these things gone. I'm up for trying anything at this point. I know that's what is going after the zoa's and it's the one thing that didn't come with the rock when I removed it. I've spotted a few of them this morning and I may be able to give it another go this evening. Bright side some of the zoa's opened this morning so I didn't destroy all of them on my hunt.

I did forget about a few things that I noticed and didn't post. I have a whole bunch of these white tube things that are fleshy and have spikes of white coming out of them. They are taking over a lot of things and there are more of them on a daily basis. I also have something that is under one of my rocks. It looked like a piece of hair but then it grabbed some poo and began dragging it under the rock. I have no idea what this is as all I saw was a piece of sting and then it began moving. Little scared to lift the rock and find out what's under it.

I only removed these worms because they were so large. I still have several in the tank and don't plan on digging everything out just to get rid of them. They are creepy but a little fasinating too.

Hope you can see this next pic. Thanks again for your help. Angie

[lReef lKeeper]

i know what that is angie. its a zoo eater, here is a link. http://www.zoaid.com/index.php?module=pnGallery2&func=main&g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=628

as for working together, that would be great about all i can come up with is to use a baster to suck them up as mine are very small. i am still thinking about it though. i will get back to you when i thinnk of something.

i am in the chat room all the time if you want to talk

[Dirt4dinner]

There are some fish out there that will eat those buggers! I don't know what they are....but some of these guys should know.

[peregrinus]

keep the stars and the worms. put the crab in your refug and fluch the nudi...

[dsfdbutterfly]

Bobby,

Thanks for the link. That is exactly what is happening. I dug through the web site and I think I may have came up with a name for the starfish. The site said it was a Asterina Starfish. There are several species so actually getting better than that probably won't happen. The more I dig though the more paranoid I get about what may happen now. I saw the egg ring on some of the Zoa's for the nudi's. I had started to clean them off but I will attack with more gusto tonight. I think the sucking them up idea may just work. I have one of those baby nose cleaners to get the small stuff and I may just be able to get them this way. Tweezers don't work. I have a pair of needle nose tweezers that may just be better but still not going to do the job I think.

This is what I found on the search for the stars. No author it was just a post to some site. I take it with a grain of salt except he may be onto something with this. I don't think I will add them back to the tank after all. I have too many things that they could possibly go after and it just isn't worth the worry. Here's what he said:

A. cepheus tend to stay less than 2" but is still a relatively large sea star that preys on sessile marine invertebrates (corals among them) and there is a smaller morph (perhaps a separate species, but that is still a topic of debate) that typically has six arms rather than 5 when fully mature, and tends to remain less than 1 cm or so (about 1/4") in diameter. This smaller morph/species is my best guess at the ID of the mystery stars in our tanks so far, and seems to be relatively harmless in the majority of tanks, but that doesn't mean they don't have the potential to cause problems given the right conditions. The irregularly shaped animals result from asexual reproduction by fission (the stars arms crawl off in different directions and pull the body in half - the body then regenerates the missing portion of the body resulting in the star being asymmetrical), and these stars can rapidly reproduce given suitable conditions and enough food.

I know plenty of people that have had these stars in their tanks without problem for many years. The reports on the GARF website regarding the taste of their sea stars for certain SPS are pretty dire, however, so it's worthwhile keeping an eye on them to make sure that you don't have a problem with them. Again, although these stars are opportunistic carnivores, my guess is that problems with them in the tank are a result of size, population density, and feeding regime of the tank in question. I would say that in general, people who have relatively few of these stars, or have only the stars of the small variety (never get more than 1/2"), almost always report "they don't seem to cause any visible problems in my tank..."

If you find that they grow larger than 1/4 to 1/2" or you are convinced that these stars are the source the problem with your Tubipora (as opposed to cleaning up a slowly failing colony), though, there have been successful reports of using the Harlequin Shrimp to remove these cryptic stars (e.g., also on the GARF site http://www.garf.org/news28p1.html#star). If you're really set on removing these sea stars from your tank, that is probably the best way to go, because these stars are primarily nocturnal and so cryptic that you're almost guaranteed to miss some in any manual removal attempt. The Harlequin Shrimp will do a much better job than you will in finding all the sea stars in your tank if you're determined to remove them, but when sea stars become scarce in your tank, you'll need to start buying small sea stars to feed the shrimp, because I have never heard of one being kept alive for any length of time without sea stars on which to feed....

Just food for thought. I'm still on the search. Thanks for your help guys. Angie

[lReef lKeeper]

lots of good info there Angie ... thanx, c-ya tomarrow

[dsfdbutterfly]

For anyone that is interested. I've tried the baby nose sucker to get these things off of the Zoa's. Guess what?! It works and really well.

I push all the air out of the bulb stick it into the tank, place the tip over where you have a nudibranch and let go of the bulb. If you have a larger one to get I suppose you could cut the tip further up so the whole opening will cover it. Mine are really small right now.

They don't hold on at all to the zoa's and it's very easy to do. Got the biggest of them that I've seen so far and a few of the others. I just keep waiting for them to all appear and then suck them up. This works better with the nose sucker than a baster because the opening is small and you can target it better. I also found that the baster would drip water as you are pulling it out of the tank. Leaving you with the possibility of losing the little guy back into the water column.

With the nose sucker once you've got the bulb back to normal you put your finger under the tip and squirt it into a bucket. Make sure you've got the sucker in there and that he comes out (I had no problem with this they don't hang on to anything and come right out with the water). Wala a few minutes (actually hours to make sure but who's keeping track right) you are nudibranch free!

Pick up the nose sucker in any baby supply department of your choice and you have yourself a wonderful nudibranch catcher. As an added bonus I cleaned up all the debris that was in and around the zoa's too so everything looks good and healthy.

Angie

[Dirt4dinner]

I just got goose bumps thinking about going in the "baby department" of any store...YIKES!

I have to make a rather annonymous online purchase....:confused:

[dsfdbutterfly]

Tyler,

You don't have to buy the baby there! Of course come to think of it I only see men that look beaten and worn in that department so maybe you are the wise one to stay away. You can always try the old man department for nose clippers and see if there are any around there. Of course by association anyone will assume you are an old man if you go down that isle. Best to send the wife and tell her not to get any ideas (wink). The annonyous purchases should be left for better things than a nose sucker!

Angie

[ramoth41]

Tyler.. up you can avoid the "baby isle"and get and ear wax removal kit!! they have the sucker thing just like the baby snot sucker!! lol

Angie.. that white goofy legged starfish.. there are several type of them and one is an algea eater and the other is a coral eater!! .. So watch um.. if you see them ON your coral nab um out! Thats about the only way you can tell the difference! I had thousands of both at one point because I was told they were safe then my corals started doing poorly and some of my sps died! Took a while but I figured it had to be the starfish! .. So we started yanking them out and now we are actually getting a handle on them! (after about 6 yrs)

If you really want to get the worms get a trap.. way easier than ripping your tank and tweesers! lol

sarah