Apex !!! WTH are you doing !!!

[binford4000]

First this is not an Apex slam! I was out camping got an alarm from my Apex wich first alarm was Ph is reading 2.3??? No problem need to replace the probe when I get back. Lets keep going honey,lets snorkel this lake today I can fix that later. Then I get a second alarm saying my tank is now an ice cube and ready for some ice tea since it is at 16 F???? And the Ph is still reading in the 2's and guess what,both heaters are running full blast so trip is over !! Need to pack up and haul but home! I get on my phone to turn the heaters off and when I do the thing rests itself and temp is now 79 and Ph is 8.3 as it should be. Guess we're back on. This morning the wife says go home and check my tank please. Womans intuition is always right. As soon as I left the site and got phone service the alarms we're going nuts. Thank GOD I believe in over kill and that big fat chiller worked like it did! Both heaters have been running since 1:30 am. I unplugged the complete apex and the DC8's and rebooted it. It seams to running ok now. But still put finnex controllers on the heaters for fail safe. ANYONE ever have this happen ?? I am confused by this but would like to solve it so any input would be most appreciated . And yes I have a new found love for my power sucking chiller which I will never unplug like I was debating. That beast saved everything in the tank! It just paid for itself! Get lucky sometimes! :oldman:

[pjr]

Unreal! Automation is bliss, carnage avoided.

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[jimsflies]

My apex kept sending me power out alarms a few weeks ago and locking up. Then I lost all connectivity...I need to send it Neptune to see what's wrong.

Unless you really need a heater, I would unplugged them this time of year.

[slapshot]

I have had mine go wacko. Unplugged it and rebooted it, no problem since.

[petercar]

Mine went wacko ..the lights where off on diplay tank,return pump was off skimmer was off the 2 powerheads where going sump light wasnt on ..the apex window has been up on the computer ..it froze so did a reboot ..presto it all worked


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[BlackGrandPrix]

I still don't understand why people put their tank in the hands of one piece of equipment. Especially electronic.

[binford4000]

Thanks everyone for the input. I just got home and it seems to be running ok. I am going to reinstall the firm ware and profiles today and see if that smooths things out. I am glad the chiller draws to many amps to put on the apex. It draws close to ten amps so it would defeat the purpose and obviously it is smart not to pug it into it anyway.plan to be on the phone with them in the am. Sure hope they don't give the usual "send it in and we'll take a look at it " answer. As far as trusting just one thing to control the system that is going to change. Good point! It becomes easy to trust these things but when it fails look out. I was thinking about how much money would have been wasted if the chiller hadn't been able to handle the job. It would have easily been in the thousands! Lucky day for sure ! :thumbsup: I need to send the chiller company a letter thanking them for making such a good unit !

[slapshot]

I still don't understand why people put their tank in the hands of one piece of equipment. Especially electronic.

I still check everything, but when I'm at work or on vacation it's a God send. I put a red led in the wall and hooked it up so if anything starts to go off kilter the light comes on. Everyone in the house knows to call me if the light is on. Saved me countless times.

[jimsflies]

I still don't understand why people put their tank in the hands of one piece of equipment. Especially electronic.

The key to automation is to build in redundancy and fail safes. For example, Binford's built in thermostats on his heaters should be set barely above the temp that he wants to maintain so that they will not heat the tank beyond that even if the controller is calling for heat. Further, code should be added to the controller to deal with potential absurd (clearly erroneous readings...probe failure). For example, if temp < 60, then heater off and alarm condition. And if he is controlling anything based on pH that should be programmed in as well....e.g., If pH <7.5, then kalk off (and if pH >8.5 kalk off).

[jimsflies]

Thanks everyone for the input. I just got home and it seems to be running ok. I am going to reinstall the firm ware and profiles today and see if that smooths things out. I am glad the chiller draws to many amps to put on the apex. It draws close to ten amps so it would defeat the purpose and obviously it is smart not to pug it into it anyway.plan to be on the phone with them in the am. Sure hope they don't give the usual "send it in and we'll take a look at it " answer. As far as trusting just one thing to control the system that is going to change. Good point! It becomes easy to trust these things but when it fails look out. I was thinking about how much money would have been wasted if the chiller hadn't been able to handle the job. It would have easily been in the thousands! Lucky day for sure ! :thumbsup: I need to send the chiller company a letter thanking them for making such a good unit !

FYI Neptune doesn't like to do phone support much anymore. Your best bet is to open a ticket on their website and they will open a dialog with you. They even seem to answer that system on the weekend from my experience. You can also post in the forum on their website and usually get some input.

[slapshot]

Actually Bulk Reef Supplies has a pretty good video they are running about the 10 most common reasons for failure that really explains how you can use a controller to avoid most of them.

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/video/view/top-ten-tank-failures-video/?&trk_msg=KUKKABOL6RT4FEDD02TLQ65ST8&trk_contact=FPSMJQAUII0P2TBHNC6318EB1O&utm_source=Listrak&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=http%3a%2f%2fwww.bulkreefsupply.com%2fvid eo%2fview%2ftop-ten-tank-failures-video%2f%3f&utm_campaign=education&utm_content=brstv_062313

[binford4000]

The key to automation is to build in redundancy and fail safes. For example, Binford's built in thermostats on his heaters should be set barely above the temp that he wants to maintain so that they will not heat the tank beyond that even if the controller is calling for heat. Further, code should be added to the controller to deal with potential absurd (clearly erroneous readings...probe failure). For example, if temp < 60, then heater off and alarm condition. And if he is controlling anything based on pH that should be programmed in as well....e.g., If pH <7.5, then kalk off (and if pH >8.5 kalk off).

+1 Jim, issue is that even tho I have programmed the absurd values to send alarms as you suggested which I have done the unit still ignored it's programming other then base commands. Had the unit do the same thing just an hour ago but this time the controller would not recognize commands from the phone or I Pad. Unplugged again and rebooted it,running as it should again. The finnex controller fail safe idea worked exactly as I hoped. I would not recommend dousing with any controller unless it was designed for it. I.E. spectra pure's unit or something similar. Yikes if I used my apex for dousing everything would be dead with how this thing is acting! Lol

If your running any controller and use it to control the heat I strongly recommend a fail safe as I did. If it was not for the chiller I would have 250 gallons of fish and coral soup. I truly got lucky with the chiller being able to handle the temp the way it did. I am now thinking like NASA ,fail safe,fail safe,fail safe......

[jimsflies]

How about setting the heaters' thermostats to the just above the apex set point?

[BlackGrandPrix]

I understand why people use controllers don't get me wrong. I am just old school and hands on, on my approach towards reefing. That's what's great about the hobby you have low tech and high tech. I just don't trust alot of electronics to last these days especially around saltwater moisture lol.

[binford4000]

How about setting the heaters' thermostats to the just above the apex set point?

Took that advice to heart Jim.Set it like that as soon as I read your post.Worked like a charm. Neptunes web site is down so we'll have to wait tell Monday to start the agravation.lol Good idea :oldman:

[binford4000]

I understand why people use controllers don't get me wrong. I am just old school and hands on, on my approach towards reefing. That's what's great about the hobby you have low tech and high tech. I just don't trust alot of electronics to last these days especially around saltwater moisture lol.

I see what your saying honestly. The Apex is a great tool just as other control systems are. With all the kids gone the Apex has allowed me and my wife to enjoy our empty nest without being to concerned about the ten thousand dollars we have invested in our tank. It also has made finding tank sitters much easier. It's hard to get reefer friends to return sitting and feeding time !!! As is the case in much of life they find reasons why they can't..Our true friends don"t mind doing it but are always very nervous knowing how much investment is involved and they have both said they feel much better knowing I am checking in on the tablet or phone from time to time and I can look up the history to answer concerns if they arrive.Besides it is fun to turn the lights off on them from Hawaii or where ever we are.I do agree that I have become very dependant on the Apex and feel I need to give more thought to better back up control that is not dependant on a computer to do everything and use the Apex more for distant observation then total control if that makes sense. :oldman:

[dknuckles]

Chuck...ordering mine Friday.
Been nervous ever since we talked about it this weekend!!

[binford4000]

Ok got the newest firm ware installed and got the Apex running on it. I tried to explain several times to neptune that I believe there's a serious programing flaw.The controler has clipped or froze eight times in the last three days. What I find strange and why I believe there is an issue with the controlers base program is everytime the unit reads the same 16 F on the temp and 2.6 Ph. I find this to be more then a freak situation regardless of the conversation I had with the rep I spoke too. Not the most impressive trouble shooter and seamed very confused during most of the conversation other then he was sure that it had nothing to do with the programing. FYI-- I did change the temp probe and the Ph probe with new ones on Sunday.Hopefully this new firm ware will correct the issue.I will keep ya posted ! :oldman:

[binford4000]

Well did the update and seamed to be working fine tell just before we left for a week on the bike in the up and northern Wisconsin. Got a text alarm that the temp was 16f and the Ph was 2.6 again!! Arghh went and bought a new Apex and figured I could save my profiles and download them to a new one ! Directions say you can. LOL as usual it just doesn't work as planed. Regardless,spent several hours reprogramming the new one after the downloading failed. Got it going and left the rest up to fate. Plan on sending the old one back on Moday. Just what I need another controller to collect dust. Well at least I will ave a back up. I will update this when I get the old one fixed. Unfourtanetly this is to be continued.... :oldman:

[MizTanks]

Quit the on going saga-Days of our Tanks :)


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[jimsflies]

I'd be interested in renting your repaired spare while I send mine back for servicing.

[binford4000]

Quit the on going saga-Days of our Tanks :)




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Ok,consider topic closed. This will be last post


I'd be interested in renting your repaired spare while I send mine back for servicing.

I will PM you when it comes back,ok?

[jimsflies]

Ok,consider topic closed. This will be last post


I think MizTanks meant "Quite the on going saga-Days of our Tanks" not "Quit the on going saga-Days of our Tanks", but I could be wrong.... that potentially missing "e" makes all the difference.

[MizTanks]

I did mean Quite!!! NOT Quit!! OMG!! Stupid freaking iPhone and I always edit before I post, ugh!
Sorry Binford :) Please don't stop posting!


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[binford4000]

I did mean Quite!!! NOT Quit!! OMG!! Stupid freaking iPhone and I always edit before I post, ugh!
Sorry Binford :) Please don't stop posting!


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Quite or quit I think your right. I was hopeing others who have had issues might have noticed a consistent false reading when the unit failed . The topic has pretty much ran it's course of interest and neptune is another 500 richer. It amazes me that most people figure that 2 to 3 years is long enough for it to run. To have to keep a back up is pitaful in my opinion. I have so much into this system that I figured maybee one company other then BK and AI would care about more then cleaning out your wallet,it use to be called a reputation or leading standards of an industry. Truthfully I only went with the Apex again just so I would have a spare. It is sad that people are willing to rent a spare so a company can back their product when they get around to it or feel like it. Neptune should have loaners,they admit to havering hardware and firm ware issues just no consideration to the customers that buy them. Jim PM me your address and I will send it to you as soon as I get it back. No charge. :oldman:

[jimsflies]

binford4000 Thanks for sending me your extra base unit. I finally hooked it up tonight. I had some issues, but finally got my old program up and running on it and the internet access works. Hopefully I will get mine sent out to neptune in the next couple days for repair.

[binford4000]

binford4000 Thanks for sending me your extra base unit. I finally hooked it up tonight. I had some issues, but finally got my old program up and running on it and the internet access works. Hopefully I will get mine sent out to neptune in the next couple days for repair.

No problem Jim. Glad it worked out for ya. Hopefully they get yours fixed up.