What is the best brand name oh MH?

[Reason]

I am fairly new to the hobby and have decided to upgrade current PC lighting to halides. My question is for a complete 72" hood system what brand gives you the most for the money. I only want to buy the halide only systems as I already own pc's. If anyone can point me in the right direction I would appreciate it, my head is spinning from looking at all the options and to be honest I really don't know enough about the subject to make a intellegent decision.

[perpetual98]

Do you want a pre-fabricated hood or are you going to retro it into a canopy? I can probably help you out either way because I have both of those options available to me through my store. Let me know what you're after and I'll help you get a good deal.

Later!
Eric

[Reason]

I want a pre-fab hood only because its cleaner. Any help here would be great. I'm jay BTW. Pleasure to meet you.

[lReef lKeeper]

well i was gonna say ... you might what to get in touch with Eric (perpetual98) but as usual he is on top of whatever is moving on this site.

i dont know why it put that dang smilie in there.

[Reason]

I'm gonna wait for erics responce before I do anything, I have noticed that hes helped a few people out on this site. Thanks

[perpetual98]

My suggestion would be a Hamilton hood. I'll have to see if they can do the Halide and PC hood but not include the PC bulbs/ballast because you've already got those. You could go with something like an Current-USA or Coralife fixture, but then you're looking at getting halides and PC or other supplemental lighting built in. With Hamilton, you might have some more options.

I'll try to dig up some more info, but I'm pretty busy this weekend.

Check out my store at www.myreefshop.com for some ideas. I don't have any 72" stuff up there, but I can add it any time.

Later!
Eric

[PurpleAardvark]

Personally I like the PFO brand stuff. There reflectors have on of the highest output designs. They will also do custom work and are very nice to deal with. Carla at PFO who i have delt with for 2 years has always been nice about fixing any problem I have had. I work in a fish store and I have sold at least 100 different systems. I have also delt with Hamilton who I have the exzact oposit reaction with. many people have delt with them and had good luck. From my experence I have not. Current is ok, so is coralife. Nothing real stands out abot them except there price. There is also Sunlight Supply who is anther great company to deal with. Great reflectors and great customer service. If you don't mind me asking what size tank this is going on? Are you doing sps, lps, soft or mix? That can be a big infulence too.

[Reason]

The tank is a 125gal 72x 18x 24. The idea was to have a mixedtank of hard and soft corals. The softies Ihave now are doing exceptional.A friend of mine gave me a gonoparia about four months ago and I thought it would have died by now but it's still very much alive. But now I would like to keep the more light hungry species and halides seem inevitable. I like things to be nice and neat so a pre-fab hood is what I would like.

[PurpleAardvark]

Next big question what is your budget like. A sunlight supply (SLS) hood will run you about $1650 for a 3x250 mh hqi and 4x39watt T-5. A PFO would run you about $1200 to $1400 for a 3x175 or 3x250. Nice hoods just a bit pricy. hammilton not sure but the run specails seen them go as low as $1000 complete. as far as looks go check the different websits. As far as wattage goes I like the 250 hqi but you could get away with the reg. 250 Mh I think the 175 down the road you find that you want more. As far as what is the "best" IMO I would have to go with SLS. There HQI reflectors are ranked #1 for most light output there standard MH reflector is #1 to but it is 22.25" x 22.25" and would not fit on your tank, PFO 2nd for hqi, 2nd for standard MH. With most things in this hoby I would have about 40% of things are fact, 40% opion, and 20% known one really knows about. If you go RC (bad word i know)under the sponsers they will have PFO, SLS, Hamilton listed on there and you can take a look at the different fixtures and see which on fits you needs best.

[perpetual98]

The SLS fixture is probably overkill, and HQI are probably overkill. He's already got the PC bulbs that he wants to use to supplement the halides. All of my price books are at work. I'll look them up tomorrow.

[PurpleAardvark]

Than PFO can do it as well. SLS I would have to say that IMO it would not be overkill. Plus it it leaves the door open if that person wants to go to a 180 or a 210. As for the pc part after replacing the bulbs ever 6 months yes that is the recommended, he will pay for he different type of bulbs with in 1 1/2 years. Also if you look at energy consuption which will soon be a big issue with all of us soon with rising prices on an SLS comparied to hamilton the 250 HQI set up that I just shot a price at him for will consume the same if not less energy then a 3x 175mag. So my question would be if you are going to pay the same if not more on the electric bill why not go with the brighter light.
Perpetua98 since you left yours at home let me know which prices you need I can pm then to you. I have the Wholesale books right next to me for PFO, Sunlight Supply, Hamilton, Geismann, AquaMedic, and Tunze. Just rember these are direct prices if you though a middle man like Champion they are going to be higher. Nice websit by the way. I like the layout on it. Let me know if you need help either way with the prices.

[perpetual98]

We probably have the same price books for the most part. :) I buy direct from Hamilton, and do quite a bit of business with them actually. When I tried to get hooked up with SLS, they won't sell unless you have a brick-and-mortar store, which I don't. I haven't tried PFO. I am set up with Champion, but their prices aren't very good.

[PurpleAardvark]

Same here just don't like hamilton after the fixture in our store caught fire and the rep said "You hitch up wrong." Exzact words. I am sure you know what female rep that is. Truth was that they wired the ballast wrong/loosely and two wires crossed and pooof. Most of these places you have to know some one high up to deal with them. Those were just my personal lighting acounts, you are right about champion though they are expencive, don't know what they are taking about. Ask Perry sometime what size tank he has. Do you deal with My Reef too? I saw his MR-2R skimmer on there.

Well to help out Reason, Hamilton 3x175 MH and 4x 96 PC draws 159 watts more of energy per hour than a SLS 3x250 hqi MH and 4x39 t5. so that is 1590 watts per day extra, that is 580,350 watts per year, for alot less light. with bulb replacement on pc compaired to t-5 you should pay for the fixture itself with in 1 1/2 years. Plus the better reflectors, and American made. The only reason why hamilton is so well known is because of there advertising. Honestly I would look at there websites see who has the better product for you.

[PurpleAardvark]

One thing I forgot to mention SLS fixtures have an opional thing to go with them. A set of legs for the fixture to ajust how high you want the fixture from the tank. You don't have to set it right on top of the tank which you really don't want to do or hang it from the walls. Also good for when you get new corals, and new bulbs. Have you givin any thought to a retro kit? You could save some money. I have done alot of custom canopies/ light racks it is really not to hard to do.

[Reason]

I have thought about a retro but would need some direction on a drawing of some kind. I would consider the sls brand of light due to consumtion but will that amount of intence raise the temp? I don't want to have to buy a chiller because of my lights. I just don't want this to sipal out of control to the point where it's going to cost me 5,000$ to upgrade my lights

[perpetual98]

Hey PurpleAardvark (I'm Eric by the way) I saw this on the Hamilton site, but there was no picture of the 72" one. Here's the description...

6' PROTOSTAR 250 WATT 10,000K HQI & FLUORESCENT 165W VHO

72" Deluxe PROTOSTAR unit with 3x250 watt 10,000 Kelvin HQI double ended metal halide lamps with supplemental actinic blue VHOs. The power of HQI lighting with the dawn to dusk effect of actinic blue VHOs. Great choice for all reef tanks, especially those with hard corals, SPS corals, clams, acropora and anemones. Each unit comes with super-brite internal hammertone strip reflector, two cooling fans,UV absorbing tempered glass lens and remote HQI ballasts with quick disconnects. Three double ended 250 watt 10,000K HQI lamps and two actinic blue 165 watt VHO lamps are included in price. Powerful metal halide lighting and actinics that won't be drowned out by the halides. Dawn to dusk effect - one control for the metal halides and one control for the fluorescents. Dimensions: 72"L x 11.5"W x 6.5"H.

Here's a picture of the 48" Protostar

http://www.hamiltontechnology.com/shop/images/900.jpg

[PurpleAardvark]

Hey will post later to night.

[PurpleAardvark]

http://www.sunlightsupply.com/aquarium/images/products/prodshot_maristar.jpg

Check this system out. It will help you understand what I am about to write.

There is several problems with the design of the hamilton fixture yo have posted Eric.
First one is the way the reflectors are. With Hqi's you want the refectors to more focused around the bulb itself. That is were the HQI's will be brighter than regualar MH. it also takes away from the issue of the UV killing your other bulbs. The way that is set up you will burn through VHO's every 3 months. Dented reflectors also deaden the light output as well. I also noticed no UV lense on there. I have seen one of the hamilton setups like you posted they just stick a peice of glass on there and call it a day. This would be fine if you had the fixure 6" above the tank and had no eyes. Because the bulbs have no UV protecton on them you can burn you eyes. I have done it before it really hurts i had to go to the hospital.
The second problem is the fans. Fans a good as long as they are not blowing directly on the HQI's. It really messes with the color of the bulb. It has to reach the temp it would normally burn at without fans on it to operate correctly. You will also find that VHO's do not handle the high temp. that come from a point sorce light such as an HQI, which is why most HQI fixtures have t-5's or PC. Do be honest PC's don't handle it to well either.
The third reason would be the ballast. Besides the fact Hamilton does a quick job of wiring the ballast is a mag. tar ballast. The problem with that is the energy it takes to start and run the bulbs. With most mag HQI ballast it takes a 5.5 amp kick to start it up per bulb that is about 600 watts. The mag. HQI ballast really good ones run at 350 watt per bulb. When you put watts more into an hqi bulb it make the color a little milkey after a short period of time. I didn't notice it until I put and electronic ballast on a tank that had mag. on it. Electronic ballast run 275 watts to start and 256 watts after. That is why it is cheaper to run a Electorinc 250 HQI than a standard 175 mag ballast.
This is why I have recomended SLS. Sorry to go on for such along rant but this is a subject that I have done alot of resurch on. By the way I suck at spelling. The may cost more but in the long run the person will be alot happyier with the SLS IMO.
As for the other question about heat. You shouldn't need a chiller. I would just put a couple of cheap 8" fans blowing on your sump plus with the stand offs there is less heat trasnfer.
If any one cares I am running 3 SLS HQI 250 mini Pendants with the giesemann 22k, 4 -80 t-5 with SLS reflectors, all powered with electronic ballasts. I retro fit into a canopy on a 210. I do use 6 4" fans in the canopy but I could get away with 3-4. The canopy is completely sealed with doors on all sides. I have no use for a chiller. My tank stays between 80-81 which is want I want for my sps growth.
I hope this helps some or at least gives you some good info. I will have pics up sometime soon once i figure out how to shrink the pics down so they fit on this site. Anyone with a mac is more the welcome offer suggestions.

[PurpleAardvark]

By the way my name is Don.

[perpetual98]

I've never seen any Hamilton hood in person, likewise, I've never seen a Sunlight Supply fixture.

Seeing as you have the same pricing that I do, you can probably get the same or better deals for people. I get the impression that you have a brick-n-morter store.

I'm out.

[PurpleAardvark]

acutally I am in the same shoes as you. However I working at a LFS at the moment (not for long though). I am thinking about doing wholesale though. Maybe I can help you out. I don't want to take bussiness from you but I also have had many of these fixtures in the past as well. I believe the whole spirt of this place is education and sharing. I just happen to have maybe a little more experence with lighting. From what I have read you have more experence than me in sump and baffle building. You just happened to post on a subject that I have spent alot of time and money on. I have personally tryied over 20 different types of MH bulbs on my tanks. PFO is a good sourse to alot easyier to deal with. Give them a call at 1-800-577-9690 ext. 17 tell carla that Don from Aquarium Superstore told you to call her. As for SLS send me a PM.

[Reason]

What is the cost of the 6 foot unit. Can it be mounted another way other than cables. I have cathedral ceilings over my tank.