ChemiClean and Phosguard?

[MizTanks]

Should I stop using Phosguard during ChemiClean treatment?
I'm wondering because today is the 4th day for ChemiClean treatment and there's been no change at all. Unusual because it's always worked for me in the past.

[Poseidon]

I didn't have any luck at all with ChemiClean, Phosguard worked on its own for me. Are you fighting Cyano?

[MizTanks]

Yes I'm fighting cyano :( Did a 25% WC today. Siphoning out the majority of it.
I'm now going to try the 3 day lights out method. But I'm very concerned about my Clam, 1 fish and of course my corals. But I don't know what else to do.

[Poseidon]

I'd skip the 3 days lights out, that was one of my first things to try. I was doing 25% water changes every week, I used the full 300 gallon treatment of ChemiClean in a week, finally it was the PhosGuard that took it away. I continued with the water changes, and manual removal of Cyano for about 3 weeks after the addition of 1 cup of PhosGuard per week. After the 3rd week all Cyano was gone, and did not return.

[Tom@HaslettMI]

I'm not a fan of chemically treating cyano but if you go that route then I would pull all other media.

Getting more light on my refugium to encourage macroalgae growth helped win my most recent cyano battle. I was also running phosguard.

Tom

[mole]

3 days lights out worked well for me. Running phosguard now with chaeto in my sump and haven't had any issues for about 8 months.

[MizTanks]

This is my first issue with cyano in my DT. Usually it's plagued my fuge. Maybe when I cleaned the fuge out I disturbed the balance.
I'm using half a cup of PhosGuard for my 26. To much or not enough? Maybe not enough flow through it? I'm real limited as to where I can put it.

[jimsflies]

What are your water parameters?

How old are your bulbs?

[MizTanks]

Lamps are 3 days old (Cyano started way before I changed em)
NO3=.0 NO2=.0 Ammonia=.0 Ca=420 Alk=9.2 Mag=1450 PO4 .02 Temp=79

[jimsflies]

The old lamps were probably the issue. Changing the bulbs will help but not over night (or in 3 days). Nothing good happens fast in a reef tank.

You could treat with myacin. I've done it ba few times before. Its a bandaid, but bandaids aren't necessarily bad. If you don't feel like you are getting it under control this will help you get the upper hand.

Whats your feeding schedule? How much, how often and what are you feeding?

[MizTanks]

I feed a tiny pinch of RN flake to my lil Damsel in the a.m. Then a dime size piece of Frozen Reef Frenzy to him & Cleaner shrimp in the p.m. That's it.
Here's the PO4 test results from this morning. Salifert (sp) kit. It's actually lighter if not sitting on the sink :) I did add some fresh PhodGuard last night.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/24/tu4asere.jpg

[mole]

How old is your test kit?

[MizTanks]

This is frustrating. All cyano that I siphoned out yesterday is back today :( What's worse is it's more so on the SB. So every time I try removing it I'm taking SB with it.
Within the last month I've changed out 100% of my water.
Well I'm going to give the lights out method a try.

[jimsflies]

I think you are feeding more than you need to...at least in the short term, cut back till you get on top of the cyano.

I would go to every other day feeding. They can forage for pods and won't starve. At least cut the frozen out for now and only feed the damsel a few pellets.

[MizTanks]

Good advise Jim and I'll take it :)

[tcp316]

I struggled with red cyano for over 6 months. Went thru way too much salt. Phosguard did not stop it. Siphoning. etc. I thought it was my lights. Got new, still had problems. Got rid of all my frozen food just in case and cut way back to feed every 2-3 days a tiny bit.

Still no luck. Bought 2 different brands of new test kits. Always tested 0 so I think the caulerpa was giving me a false test.

Finally I used chemiclean exactly as directed. I have used it on one other tank in the past and lost nothing. This time, I lost my emerald, hollywood stunner, a beautiful purple sponge, red cap and another chalice is faded on the edges and my superman shrooms are having difficulty. But....... it is now under control. I am now using Phosguard in my Little Fishies reactor. I want to buy another one because this is the one I used for carbon.

Good luck. It is a very frustrating battle.

[MizTanks]

Well I tried the ChemiClean for 4 days. Lost nothing including the cyano. So today I've started lights out for 72hrs and I have a towel wrapped around the tank. No lights getting in at all!

[tcp316]

I did two different episodes of blackout with no results. I guess each case is different. I'm just so relieved it is much better. Hope you get it figured out faster than i did. Ugh

[MizTanks]

UGH! I had no idea how hard it would be to keep the lights out on my tank. I keep peaking in there with a lil flashlight-lol

[MizTanks]

It has been 72hrs and the lights are back on! Man that was hard!! I hid in my bedroom most of the time so I didn't have to look at a dark tank-lol.
Phosphates are reading below 0.05, down from 0.5 after running PhosGaurd for the last 4 days.
Gotta say the tank looks good. Water's crystal clear. Hopefully the two combined worked.....

[MizTanks]

Well so much for the lights out method :( Cyano's back, ugh! Adding new PG every 4-5 days now and fixing to do another WC just so I can manually remove this crap.

[jimsflies]

Have you considered the myacin route?

[MizTanks]

Jim I'm not familiar with that med. Myacin 2 I am though. Are they alike?

[jimsflies]

Probably. It will knock it out right now.

I believe there is a product called Red Slime Remover...which is basically myacin. It could cause a hit to your biological filtration. But you can minimize the damage by following up with a dose of Britewells MB7 or equivalent...after a significant water change and running carbon.

By the time your done, it will be like pushing the reset button on cyano. Just be careful not to get back in the same situation (likely because of feeding too much).

[MizTanks]

I really don't feed all that much. I target feed the fish & shrimp using a turkey baster, same for a couple LPS.
It started after the Neon Damsel tore up my SB.
I really don't want to use an antibiotic. To many things can go wrong.
I'm going to do a couple more days of lights out and a WC for now. Maybe try the ChemiClean again.

[MizTanks]

We'll well well! Did another lights out just because I was pi$$ed and didn't want to look in there anymore. Turned the lights back on this a.m. and so far there's no sign of cyano!

[tcp316]

We'll well well! Did another lights out just because I was pi$$ed and didn't want to look in there anymore. Turned the lights back on this a.m. and so far there's no sign of cyano!

That's great

[MizTanks]

That's great

I know right!! Been looking in there all day, with a smile even :)

[schminksbro]

You need to out compete the cyano for nutrients. Manual removal combined with aggressive phosphate removal. Sometimes adding some flow helps to make the bacteria uncomfortable while also kicking up excess food so that it gets filtered out. Personally I would never use a drug to fight cyano. It doesn't fix the problem and it stays in your system for a long time. While it is there you won't have cyano but you will still have the conditions for it to grow. When the drug finally filters out the cyano will just come back.

[binford4000]

You need to out compete the cyano for nutrients. Manual removal combined with aggressive phosphate removal. Sometimes adding some flow helps to make the bacteria uncomfortable while also kicking up excess food so that it gets filtered out. Personally I would never use a drug to fight cyano. It doesn't fix the problem and it stays in your system for a long time. While it is there you won't have cyano but you will still have the conditions for it to grow. When the drug finally filters out the cyano will just come back.

I totally agree. Instead of thinking chemical you should be thinking biological. Have you considered using something like microbacter 7 and useing a carbon fuel source. I swear by brightwell's reef fuel. Cyano is usually a sign of water quality issues comeing your way. Cleaning the sandbed is a good start then get the denitrifying cycle going.

[MizTanks]

Right on Andy & Chuck! The battle rages on!! ChemiClean didn't work nor did the 3 days lights out. Another lesson learned :) I did have a cyano free tank for a couple of days though-lol.
I vacuumed the areas on the SB that I could reach. I mean a deep down clean. Nasty nasty! Changing 5 1/2g of water every 7-10 days and am running 1/2 cup of PhosGuard every 4 days.
Today I'm going to add 5ml of BioPronto by Two Little Fishes. It's all I have available. My new unopened bottle of MB7 has been sitting in my fridge for 2+yrs, I'm sure it's no good-lol.

Update: emailed Britewell asking about shelf life of MB7. Great news! "Thank you for your inquiry. Microbacter7 will last up to 18 months at full strength if refrigerated after opening. It has an indefinite shelf life if
refrigerated and unopened."