yellowfin attacking clown & sick chromis

[dkode]

Hello,

today I noticed that my chromis was swimming weird. mostly like he is disoriented, swimming upside down and has enflamed gills. Did a water test heres the readings:ph-8,amm.-0.10, nitrites-0,nitrates-0

i also put a new percula clownfish into the tank and my yellowfin blue (id?) is pecking at his fins. he doesnt seem to like him too much.

any ideas?

thanks

sean

[lReef lKeeper]

yellow fin blue ?? a DAMNsel ?? how big is he ??

DAMNsels get more and more aggressive as they get older/ bigger. they are probably getting territorial. how big is the tank they are in ?? they are not known to stop the harrassment until the other fish is/ are dead.

i have had to remove ALL 180lbs. of my LR to catch them before.

[dkode]

i think its called a yellowtail blue. i dont have a pic right now.

hes about 2 inches long, bright yellow tail and a purple/blue fluroescent colored body, with some black spots on his chin.

the tank is 92 gallons and has the following:

sailfin tang
blue birdwrasse
3 black/white damsels
yellowtail blue
percula clown fish

after waiting a little while, the clown went to the right side of the tank and the yellowtail seems to be leaving him alone right now

also to add, the chromis died, along with another one last week. do the levels look ok?

[lReef lKeeper]

the DAMNsels WILL get aggressive. especially the black and white ones and the "domino" DAMNsel. i would personal trade the DAMNsels in for something that is going to get along with everything you intend on putting in the tank. check out this link to see what is compatible with what ...

http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/compatibility_chart.cfm

[mtodd001]

i have had to remove ALL 180lbs. of my LR to catch them before.[/QUOTE]

i had to remove all of my LR to get that damnsel out of my tank. there was no easy solution, he terrorized my tank for months!!! he now resides in a 55gal sump where he can do no harm. :)

[dkode]

any idea why my chromis's would croak?

One is missing, possibly died under a rock or something. Is it vital for me to dig through the rocks to remove him?

the other one died and i flushed him down the toilet. poor little guy

[lReef lKeeper]

your black and white DAMNsel was probably picking on them and caused enough damage or stress to kill them. as long as you have enough cleaners in your tank i would not bother looking for the missing chromis.

[dkode]

At the moment the only cleaning crew I have in there is 2 sea cucumbers. I have a bird wrasse in the tank that eats most of the inverts that I've put in the tank. If I don't remove the dead fish will it toxify the tank?

I also saw someone stating that they test for calcium and alk.? Is it necessary for me to test for this? I've only ever tested for amm. Ph, sg, nitrites and nitrates.

Any pointers would be appreciated!

[lReef lKeeper]

what kind of tank are we talking about, reef or FOWLR ?? if FOWLR i would think that as long as you test the water weekly, there should not be a big impact with such a small fish. IMO, i would lose the bird wrasse (unless you want to rearrange the LR every time a fish dies), and add some crabs.

IMO, testing for calcium and alk. is not much more expensive and could help alot.

[Reef_Angel]

I hope that I can help you a bit on all your questions. Thank you Bobby for all your help as well.

Let's start with your Chromis. Chromis are the type of fish that are great alerters to other fish in the tank when danger is afront. Did your Chromis hide a lot? If they had to hide all the time, they may not have gotten the requirements they needed to survive. I'm thinking that your ammonia levels may have been an issue, or some kind of parasite. When Chromis grace our tank with their presence, they feel there is no threat to them, and the other fish in the tank will often take their cue from this behavior. I love my chromis because it is awesome to see this behavior in action. Just a note, my husband bought me a dozen blue/green chromis for Valentine's Day about 2 years ago, so I am a little partial to them.
As far as your bird wrasse is concerned, if he's not bothering anything in your tank, he may just be one of those fish that gets along with things for one reason or another. Bobby said they re-arrange your tank, but maybe yours won't. I suggest you keep an eye on him and see what happens. The clown you purchase is always a fun fish to have in the tank. Get another one so they can be a pair. Right now your clown is a female, but depending on the size of your next clown, one will become a male and one a female. Get them a nice anenome to cuddle in and you'll really enjoy that. I truly believe that clowns are unhappy without a mate, and a lovey (meaning something they can cuddle into together). It's really a necessity.

What you have are Domino Damsels, and also a yellow tailed damsel. Very aggressive and nasty fish. Many people use them to cycle a tank, but IMO I'd rather go with a raw shrimp. I don't want to be stuck with a fish that's not a welcome inhabitant with my newcomers. I won't say that damsels are all bad, but give them their own tank dominated by them to form the "schooling" appearance. It is beautiful! Then they only have themselves to argue with. If people think they have to have a fish to cycle a tank with, the Chromis is a hardly fish that can withstand the cycle. Your sweet natured Chromis' never had a chance in the tank with all the damsels you have. I think when stocking a tank with fish, it's highly important that you choose which type of fish you want to raise, whether it be aggressive fish, semi-aggressives, or the peaceful ones. Mixing is generally not the best idea, although it has been done in some instances...just not with damsels!! Get them out of your tank by watching for them at night. They'll be on the prowl looking to kill and feed. Introduce some food and good luck! Don't turn on your lights, use a flashlight with a piece of red plastic, or just buy one that comes with it. It may be the best chance you have without tearing the tank apart, which I don't recommend if at all possible. Put them in a refuge if you have one once you catch them, or a small tank with a maxi jet, just long enough for you to find them new homes. Please don't flush them. In their proper environment, the really are quite beautiful, and we are trying to save our reef & it's inhabitants! That's what Captive Reefing is all about!

You need to beef up your cleaning crew. I would suggest you get as many as possible...maybe start with 25 for now...even 1 would help a little, but plan on increasing that amount right away to about 60-70 for your size tank. Ebay has many people that sell them in large quantities for much less than you'd pay at an LFS. They are imperitive to your tanks wellbeing as they do eat quite a bit of detrius, and will take care of any dead fish very quickly, eliminating the polution & ammonia spikes in your tank. For a tank your size, I'd recommend at least 50-75 blue legged hermits. We don't care for the red legged ones. They always were at war with the blues and killed many. Other reefers like the red leggers, but we've personally had no luck.

Your tests sound pretty good, but you need to keep an eye on the ammonia. As we all know, testing is very important, and alkalinity & calcium are important tests as well. READ, READ, READ! Look at all you have in your reef, and see what each animal needs. Sounds like a water change is needed. I'd suggest taking off 25-30 gallons, and replace it with fresh salt water. That will bring your levels down. Test weekly, and if the ammonia spikes again, take off 20 gallons each week until you get it under control once your clean up crew has been working hard for you. The addition of the hermit crabs is going to help this greatly, and in time with a great cleanup crew, you'll notice that ammonia may become less and less of a problem. Right now you are sporting more fish than cleanup crew, so there's nothing helping to eliminate the problem before it starts. Great choice with your cucumbers in the tank. They are wonderful detrius cleaners!! Another thing you should do is add some snails like the: Cerith, Nassarius, Turbo's, Abalone or Trochus Snails. You can always mix and match for variety and interest in your tank. Read up on them and make some choices. I really like my Ceriths. Another fun cleaner is a Serpent Star. It's fun at night to see all these critters come out at night and do their work. Don't forget to buy yourself a good flashlight that has a red lense, lots of batteries on hand, and tell anyone that tries to borrow it from the aquarium area that they will be shot if it's removed! The red light doesn't interrupt the night activity, and you can really watch some fascinating shows of your reef at it's finest!

I think I've answered all the questions you have listed here to the best of my reef experience. If you need more help, just hollar! That's what everyone is here for!!

Best of luck to you, and again...I'm sorry for the losses you've experienced! ...Angel :)

[lReef lKeeper]

thanx Angel, i could not have said it better myself !! i don't know how you do all of that typing, but MORE power to ya !! lol

[ramoth41]

Just a quick note on the DAMNsels... (of which I have had a few! lol)
I have a 12yr old Yellowtail who was one of my original cyclers AND I have a 10yr old false perc... These 2 have been together a long time and they HATE each other. BUT they haven't done any major damage.. most of the time it's just posturing I also have 2 fourstripes which are a mated pair.. the only thing they hate is the Coral Beauty who will antagonise them! I've seen the coral beauty come across the tank just to pick on them! They ony time they are really aggressive is when they are laying eggs. I have had dominos(nasty), blue devils (about the same as the blueyellowtail), the brown yellow tails (NEVER AGAIN). The brown yellowtails are the nastiest ones I have ever had.. I bought them as juvi's.. pretty yellow with horizontal black stripes so watch out! He killed all his "school mates" and a Lemonpeel Angel! Had to tear apart the tank to get the little bas***rd.
If your yellow tail and your clown are just posturing and not doing any real damage to each other you should be fine.

Ok here is where you get conflicting information! I don't think your perc needs a buddy or an anemone. (sorry Angel lol) I've tried to get my perc to host more than once.. and he did then the anemone died.. They really don't need to have one. They will find somthing they like and stick with it. My perc has been in the big leather, brain corals, bubble coral, mushrooms.. so they don't need an anenome. Plus some anenome are rather difficult to keep. As for a mate.. There is always the chance they will become a pair and and then again they could fight to the death! The best way to get a pair is to buy them at the same time as a mated pair OR introduce then to the tank at the same time.

I don't know much about the bird wrasse ecept that they get HUGE if you want to keep him you might have to get a bigger tank! You said he eats all your inverts right? IMHO I would take him back and get some of the clean-up crew Angel mentioned.

The Chromis are neat little fish that, unfortunatly, I am one of those unlucky people just can't keep them! Hard to believe I know but I had a school of 23 at one point and they all died over the course of about 3months! But I do like them! Love to watch them play in the current from the returns!

Before you add anything else to your tank do some water changes and check your levels... once you get that right your fish won't be so stressed and things should calm down in the agression department. If you can catch the worst offender he can live happily in your sump.. I had several 4 stripes in there for about 5months till I found homes for them As far as testing.. if you have a reef then you need to test for calk ect but for FO /FOWLR getting the ph,sg,nitrates,nitrites, ect right is important...

good luck! hope that helps some too!

[Reef_Angel]

I don't think your perc needs a buddy or an anemone. (sorry Angel lol) I've tried to get my perc to host more than once.. and he did then the anemone died.. They really don't need to have one. They will find somthing they like and stick with it. My perc has been in the big leather, brain corals, bubble coral, mushrooms.. so they don't need an anenome. Plus some anenome are rather difficult to keep. As for a mate.. There is always the chance they will become a pair and and then again they could fight to the death! The best way to get a pair is to buy them at the same time as a mated pair OR introduce then to the tank at the same time.

No reason to apologize with me Ramoth! I agree with you on this statement as well.. I guess I was just using an example of the anemone because that's what my clowns really enjoyed the most until we lost our Sebae when the 180g crashed. However, I still strongly feel that getting another clown in their situation, where their only clown is hovering at the top may warrant a partner. Talking from experience on several different occasions, it was just what the doctor ordered. They may or may not fuss with each other, but I noticed that once they had a mate of their kind, they settled in together to find their favorite "lovey" in the tank. Mine have cuddled up in anything from zoas, colt coral, green or pink star polyps, and yep.....even one of those fake things. I really don't see a problem with them partnering their clown as long as they stay close in size & buy the same type of clown as a mate.
I do think that some may debate both of our opinions, but I have to speak from my practical experience. When a clown just constantly sits at the top all the time, I've seen the death rate be higher after it sits up there all alone for even weeks at a time. They are scared to leave that area as they feel safe from other fish, but they don't eat well at the top, and they truly look lonely. There is strength in numbers, and once they have a mate, they feel more confident to leave the top of the tank. Just another opinion for dkode to think about. Ultimately, he'll make the decision from more advice from others. Thanks for the debate Ramoth!

Hey Bobby, I tend to think everything I write comes out in book like form!! lol I'm not good at those short quickly answers. No one can say I don't express myself! :p

Dkode, I'd love to hear how this all resolved for you. Hope we've all helped you out to some extent! .........Angel :angel1:

[dkode]

Hello all!

Been gone a long time, but finally have some free time now, plus I got the bird wrasse out this week. Took him down to the LFS and the shop gave me a $20 store credit that I used to buy a feather duster, 6 scarlet hermits and a banded coral shrimp. I acclimated everyone and they've been in there for a couple of days now.

Today I went to another LFS and picked out a nice looking skunk cleaner shrimp that was priced at $16, but when the lady put the price on the bag it only read $4.99. I just kept my mouth shut, and got it for a discount :) Kind of feel like I stole, but hey...their fault right?

anyways, I am acclimating the skunk right now for a couple of hours.

thats for the tips everyone! I still have the domino's and yellow tail, they havent killed anyone else yet, although I would like to put another perc in there, but I guess I would just be tempting fate again and really have to take the domino's and yellow tail out first.

Another question, does it matter what time schedule my lights are on? right now they are on everyday from 4pm to 12pm. I'm assuming it doesnt matter what time of day the lighting comes on does it?

Anyways, thanks for the tips and i'm glad to be on the up and up! ;)

[Tam]

i just thought i would give a quick mention i bought a yellow tail damsel when i first setup about 9 months ago and he never bothers anything else attall i must have got a good natured one...he lives happily among the others with no hassle.

[lReef lKeeper]

what kind of lighting do you have dkode ??

[dkode]

on the 92 gallon I have two 55W PC combo bulbs.

[lReef lKeeper]

i would leave them on for at least 10 hours a day. as long as the tanks is not being hit with natural light (window light) it shouldn't really matter when the lights come on and go off. what we are trying to do is re-create natural lighting patterns so the corals can feed from the lights like they do in the wild.

my PC's come on at 10am, the VHO's come on at 12pm, the VHO's go off at 8pm, and the PC's go off at 10pm. the VHO's will be replaced next week with Halides, but the lighting pattern will remain the same.