Im lost of wat to do.

[Ipyloves]

Ive had my tank for a year its always been nice n I moved it nothing died during the move but sence then my water is off ammonia has hit pretty high out of nowhere. Did I do to big of a water change during the move? Wat do I do to help the hurting?

[Tom@HaslettMI]

The move probably messed with the bacterial community. So you're getting another cycle. I'm not sure exactly what to do, but I think riding it out is probably fine.

Tom

[Ipyloves]

So dont do any water changes until it cycles?

[Tom@HaslettMI]

I'm not the best person to answer that... I haven't had a tank cycle in over 15 years. Are any of your inhabitants showings signs of stress? If they aren't then hold off on water changes and let the tank settle back in. If things are stressing then change water but don't disturb the sand. Also try to get a second opinion on your ammonia levels (LFS or another kit). it could just be a bad reading.

Tom

[binford4000]

^^^^+1. I agree get your Ammonia checked to see if your test kits reading correctly . If you do have a Ammonia spike your haveing a cycle or should say the tank has just started a cycle. Ammonia can be very dangerous to your fish and coral. I would recommend setting up a QT and get your livestock out of the tank. Then start a enzyme and biological treatment like microbacter 7 or bio digest to Reestablish a biological bed and get the nitrifying cycle re established. You should see the Ammonia drop and the No3 spike. It will be done when the No3 drops backdown. Good luck

[Tom@HaslettMI]

^^^^+1. I agree get your Ammonia checked to see if your test kits reading correctly . If you do have a Ammonia spike your haveing a cycle or should say the tank has just started a cycle. Ammonia can be very dangerous to your fish and coral. I would recommend setting up a QT and get your livestock out of the tank. Then start a enzyme and biological treatment like microbacter 7 or bio digest to Reestablish a biological bed and get the nitrifying cycle re established. You should see the Ammonia drop and the No3 spike. It will be done when the No3 drops backdown. Good luck

Good call on the bacteria dosing!

Tom

[Ipyloves]

Ive given detox n the bacteria now so now waiting n testing

[larryandlaura]

I had a ammonia spike a few years ago and lost a tank. I think when I did a bunch of water changes made it worse. Hopefully riding it out is a cure. Keep us posted on the progress.

[Ipyloves]

Pretty much once u hit a balence ya just keep doing water changes small ones once a week right? Ive always had a hard time with the cycling

[binford4000]

Pretty much once u hit a balence ya just keep doing water changes small ones once a week right? Ive always had a hard time with the cycling

That's correct,try to keep the changes around 10% or less of your water volume. Your situation is slightly diffrent because you still have your livestock in the cycling tank.stick to directions of the Bactria product and keep your testing up and consistant. Results will tell you what's going on better then anything. Once the nitrifying cycle kicks in use a carbon source to feed it. Many people do not do this and wonder why they still get algae issues after the cycle is done. I use brightwell's bio fuel many people use vodka also. Good luck

[Ipyloves]

I hate that the detox for ammonia makes the testing off ive been testing n still same spot so far

[Ipyloves]

Still nothing guys :( ive been testing n always amonia not even to the nitrite yet my star died it was verry upsetting but everything else is still going. Just keep waiting?

[Ipyloves]

So today my amonia has droped but still is there. My no2 is still nothing and no3 has increased a lil bit. Do i do anything?

[Ipyloves]

I wish i could learn this better ive been tryn for so long and i love doing it i love having it but my frustration is starting to get the best of me. I need a teacher.

[binford4000]

Ok, the ammonia is stuck at what level?? Write the level down and do a water change. Do at least a 10% volume to 25% max If you have or can afford it lets add some benifical bacteria and or enzymes. I personally recommend enzyme 9 oe microbacter 7. If you can get to Ypsilanti fish Doctors they sell the enzyme the guys from Tanked use. I have not used it but Tom and Luke speak highly of it. You will need to also get a food source for this bacteria. I recommend that use Brightwell's reef fuel. Great carbon source to feed that bacteria to get the nitrifying cycle going!! This is very important to keep things alive and healthy. After you do that wait for a day and do your testing. I will make a point of following along. Hang in there once it gets going you'll enjoy it more

[Ipyloves]

Ok starting with water change right now

[Sir Patrick]

I would like to hear more on the set up. Filtration, flow, lighting, filtration, size of tank, ect.

Inhabitants, substrate and amount of live rock too please, mostly just out of curiosity.

Ive used bacterial additives many times, to soften a cycle. My choice has always been Microbacter 7, not saying its the best, just the one I have used.

I would suggest along with bacteria supplimentation- you go get some Prime-

Amazon.com : Seachem Prime 250ml : Aquarium Treatments : Pet Supplies (http://www.amazon.com/Seachem-116043601-Prime-250ml/dp/B0002568S6/ref=sr_1_2?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1420416532&sr=1-2&keywords=prime+water+conditioner)

Prime can be found at most any LFS, and likely even in the big box stores, sometimes even meijer/walmart, nice being open 24 hrs, in your case.

I have heard good things about "Colony" the nitrifying bacteria that is used by the Tanked Guys. From what Ive heard, colony is just re-labled "SuperBac" which I have heard great results with. Is it a miracle cure? Doubt it....but I am confidant it works.

There is also bacteria suppliment systems such as ZEOvit and Prodibio, if you need other choices dependant on what you local fish store carries. Any of these will help speed you through and soften the ordeal you are going through with your amonia spike.

I agree immensely, water changes till then can only help. Water changes isnt going to stop or hinder the process thats happening, but they will help keep the ammonia concentration lower than it would be without them.

[Sir Patrick]

Prime would be my #1 (http://www.captivereefs.com/forum/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1) on the list. Alot of people completely run their sterile quarentine tanks using just prime and water changes. Its going to be your best freind through this situation.

[Sir Patrick]

Depending on where you are from, and how far away, I have MB7 and (I think) prime right now, if it will help- you drive of course.

I am North of Ann Arbor MI, just off US 23.

[Ipyloves]

I have prime i have now used it with my water change. I have the bacteria do i use that right now?

[binford4000]

Yes go ahead and put it in

[Ipyloves]

Ok i have now

[jimsflies]

I'm not sure if Brightwells MB7 (http://premiumaquatics.com/products/brightwell-aquatics-microbacter7-complete-bioculture-2.html) is any better than prime, but I have used it with success in the past. It contains live bacteria that should help re-establish your filtration.

With that said, we could use some additional information about your tank to help figure it out. Maybe a photo or two so we can see it.

When you moved the tank, did you leave the sand bed in the tank or remove it? Did you re-use the sand?

[binford4000]

I'm not sure if Brightwells MB7 (http://premiumaquatics.com/products/brightwell-aquatics-microbacter7-complete-bioculture-2.html) is any better than prime, but I have used it with success in the past. It contains live bacteria that should help re-establish your filtration.

With that said, we could use some additional information about your tank to help figure it out. Maybe a photo or two so we can see it.


When you moved the tank, did you leave the sand bed in the tank or remove it? Did you re-use the sand?

+1 I agree with Jim,personally I do not use prime except in emergency situation and then it is a last ditch effort. I suggested the micro actor 7 because it is a bacterial additive that establishes the nitrifying cycle. You can have the best equipment available but if you do not established the bacterial needs of your man made eco system. You will have nothing but trouble. Jut my 02 tho

[Lesley]

Buy some Seachem Prime & stability.
Prime will save your livestock and not hurt your bacteria. It stops, ammonia nitrites and nitrates for a 24hr period. So dose every 24hrs as long as you have ammonia reading. While dosing Prime use stability - it is one of the best bacteria supplements around.
We recently moved into a new 310g and it saved my tank.

[Lesley]

I'm not sure if Brightwells MB7 (http://premiumaquatics.com/products/brightwell-aquatics-microbacter7-complete-bioculture-2.html) is any better than prime, but I have used it with success in the past. It contains live bacteria that should help re-establish your filtration.

With that said, we could use some additional information about your tank to help figure it out. Maybe a photo or two so we can see it.

When you moved the tank, did you leave the sand bed in the tank or remove it? Did you re-use the sand?

I disagree with what you have said I think you may be confused regarding prime. It is not a bacterial supplement at all its a Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate suspension product. It works 100% and stops any of those things becoming harmful to the livstock for a period of 24hrs. Is safe to use while getting through this type of situation. Safe for fish, invertebrate corls etc.

Also in this situation a large water change is called for. 90% of bacteria is living on sand and rocks, 10 % lives in the water colum. when it comes to an emergency situation I have done up to 70% change with no ill effects at all, 10% will do nothing to save livestock. Obviously the water has to be as closely match to DT water as possible particularly Salinity, temp & alkalinity.

Hope this helps.

[binford4000]

So how's your test results ?? Your call on the prime. Many people swear by it I personally have only used it once in the 25 + years of being in this hobby so can't really recommended if you should or shouldn't use it. I can say water quality is the most important aspect of sucsesses in maintaing your aquarium. This is why you read so much of cycling your tank .Establishing the bacterial filtration of your system will only lead to long term enjoyment of your tank.

[jimsflies]

I disagree with what you have said I think you may be confused regarding prime. It is not a bacterial supplement at all its a Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate suspension product. It works 100% and stops any of those things becoming harmful to the livstock for a period of 24hrs. Is safe to use while getting through this type of situation. Safe for fish, invertebrate corls etc.

Also in this situation a large water change is called for. 90% of bacteria is living on sand and rocks, 10 % lives in the water colum. when it comes to an emergency situation I have done up to 70% change with no ill effects at all, 10% will do nothing to save livestock. Obviously the water has to be as closely match to DT water as possible particularly Salinity, temp & alkalinity.

Hope this helps.

I'm not sure what you disagree with? My suggestion though was to add MB7 to boost bacteria which apparently isn't sufficient to keep up with processing nitrogen waste. I didn't really say much about Prime because I haven't used it.

Is there a reason both products couldn't be added in this situation?

Ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates are all in a dissolved form and are always in "suspension". While my original post didn't say it, I will say that my problem with many aquarium additives in general is they don't exactly tell you what it is/the reason it works.

I took a minute to look up Prime on the Seachem website. Prime is supposed to be a dechlorinating agent (active ingredient is sodium thiosulfate) which should have no impact on ammonia. Other sites discuss dechlorinating choramine treated water and mention that free ammonia will remain if treated with sodium thiosulfate. (BTW- Chloraminated water is using chlorine combined with ammonia to create a disinfectant that has a longer residual than free chlorine alone. Most water supplies do not use chloramines.)

Their FAQ on nitrite and nitrate is also interesting:


The detoxification of nitrite and nitrate by Prime (when used at elevated levels) is not well understood from a mechanistic standpoint. The most likely explanation is that the nitrite and nitrate is removed in a manner similar to the way ammonia is removed; i.e. it is bound and held in a inert state until such time that bacteria in the biological filter are able to take a hold of it, break it apart and use it. Two other possible scenarios are reduction to nitrogen (N2) gas or conversion into a benign organic nitrogen compound.

I wish we had some more "concrete" explanation, but the end result is the same, it does actually detoxify nitrite and nitrate. This was unexpected chemically and thus initially we were not even aware of this, however we received numerous reports from customers stating that when they overdosed with Prime they were able to reduce or eliminate the high death rates they experienced when their nitrite and nitrate levels were high. We have received enough reports to date to ensure that this is no fluke and is in fact a verifiable function of the product.

This would be an experiment that would be easy to perform by a company like Seachem. It seems odd to me that they would rely on anecdotal information to make claims.

But regardless, if it helps I say go ahead and use it. But those in this situation may want to also consider adding MB7 (or other similar live culture products). Until the bacterial filtration can be re-established, ammonia and nitrite will continue to be a problem.

[Lesley]

I'm not sure if Brightwells MB7 is any better than prime, but I have used it with success in the past. It contains live bacteria that should help re-establish your filtration.

It was this comment that confused me completely, The way its worded is you are comparing 2 different products all together, MB7 is for bacterial growth - prime is a ammonia nitrite and nitrate binder ! Prime has nothing to do with bacterial growth.

It is a great idea to use a bacterial supplement but if the ammonia nitrite & eventually nitrates are not taken care of at the same time the livestock will die ! The original post was that her ammonia is high, you know that ammonia is deadly to saltwater fish so she needs to use both products. Just dosing Brightwell will help with bacteria but that takes time to grow, doesn't happen overnight, the ammonia is more of a concern at the moment.


Below is the FACT about prime and how it works. I can support 100% it does what it says it does.

rime® is the complete and concentrated conditioner for both fresh and salt water. Prime® removes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia. Prime® converts ammonia into a safe, non-toxic form that is readily removed by the tank’s biofilter. Prime® may be used during tank cycling to alleviate ammonia/nitrite toxicity. Prime® detoxifies nitrite and nitrate, allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them. It will also detoxify any heavy metals found in the tap water at typical concentration levels. Prime® also promotes the production and regeneration of the natural slime coat. Prime® is non-acidic and will not impact pH. Prime® will not overactivate skimmers. Use at start-up and whenever adding or replacing water.

Sizes: 50 mL, 100 mL, 250 mL, 500 mL, 2 L, 4 L, 20 L

Why It's Different
Nearly all companies manufacture a product that removes chlorine. None of those, however, can compare in quality, concentration, or effectiveness to Seachem’s flagship product: Prime®. Prime® is the second most concentrated dechlorinator on the market after our own aquavitro alpha™. A single 100 mL bottle will treat 1000 US gallons of tap water. Prime® will remove both chlorine and chloramines from municipal water supplies.

Prime® also contains a binder which renders ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate non-toxic. It is very important to understand how those two functions work together. All dechlorinators operate through a chemical process known as reduction. In this process, toxic dissolved chlorine gas (Cl2) is converted into non-toxic chloride ions (Cl-). The reduction process also breaks the bonds between chlorine and nitrogen atoms in the chloramine molecule (NH2Cl), freeing the chlorine atoms and replacing them with hydrogen (H) to create ammonia (NH3).

Typically, dechlorinators stop there, leaving an aquarium full of toxic ammonia! Seachem takes the necessary next step by including an ammonia binder to detoxify the ammonia produced in the reduction process.

Be very careful when purchasing water conditioners. If your municipality includes chloramines in the water supplies, a standard sodium thiosulfate dechlorinator is not enough. Prime® promotes the natural production and restoration of the slime coat rather than relying on artificial or non-native slime compounds. A further bonus for the reef hobbyist—Prime® will not overactivate protein skimmers.

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