xenia dying.....

[segraves1]

So I have this issue. My 100gal has been up since early June and overall I would say things are going rather well. Most of the things I have put in this tank are either at least "alive" (look the same as when they went in) or seem to be growing (ie: the zoes). I am however having issues with xenia.

First time:

I had xenia in my old 20gal and it was doing wonderful. I moved it over to the 100gal (about 4weeks after water was in the tank), fixed it in place with a toothpick, and after a day of looking really "thin," it nolonger opened. Over the next 2 weeks it just remained closed and eventually "poof," was desolved.

Second time:

About two months later I added some more xenia. I got another frag of xenia. Again, toothpick in the rock, looked "thin" for a day, then again nolonger opened. 2 weeks later, "poof," desolved.

Now:

Yesterday I got another frag of xenia. I again did the toothpick in the rock, it looked "thin" yesterday and today, and now tonight it won't open. So not how to I keep it from going "poof" in 2 weeks?


Everything else seems fine (including my bubble and hammer), the salt is at 1.026, temp is at 82 (the chiller keeps it between 81.6 and 82.2), I keep trying different locations (each time I get a new frag), and still nada. I have tried low/med/high flow areas, low/mid/bright light, and every possible thing I can think of. WHAT THE **** IS GOING ON?!?!?!?!?!? :(

[jojo22]

Is there anything in the tank that may be picking at it causeing it to stay closed??? Maby a new type of fish that you couldn't have in the 20 gal???

[segraves1]

well I have some new fish (some blue damsels, a yellow eye tang, and some scooters), but I wouldn't think any of these guys would bother it......I could be wrong though....

[seahorsedreams]

What other corals do you have in the tank? What is nearby and what is upstream from it? It could be an occurance of allelopathy.

[JustDavidP]

I had CROPS of Xenia weed growing in my 20 gallon tank. I moved some to a newly established 75 and it melted away. I did this repeatedly (as the Xen grew out of control in the 20) and it took more than a year for it to "take".

I was told then, that it was probably a matter of nutrients. That the 20 gallon tank, matured for 2 years, was just perfect for the coral. When I moved it to an almost sterile 75G that had just been started, the corals withered away.

After about a year, when I began to notice "banding" in my sand, algal blooms on the rock, glass etc. that required scraping almost daily, the Xenia took off. To the point where it became intrusive (as I started with SPS) and I actually then cleared it all back out of the 75.

Dave

[Sweetpea]

Xenia seems to be a real funny thing (funny odd, not funny haha). I've been listening to people's xenia stories for over a year, and I'm hearing the same thing over and over. Sometimes, you can pinpoint a cause, but most of the times, it seems like the xenia is plain and simply weird.

I have a 10 gallon tank full of it. I agree with DavidP that the nutrients have a lot to do with its survival, but my tank was new when I added it and it took off immediately. I have tried fragging it twice. The time I tried to fasten it to a rock, it melted. The second time, I just dropped it on the sand, and it's growing. Go figure!

I know this doesn't really help you with your current situation, but I wanted to make the point that you may very well be doing everything right and still not be able to keep it. Funny, huh? ;)

[dakar]

Xenia is really an odd critter.... some tanks can keep it and some can't... that's the best I can come up with. There never seems to be a repeatable process or method to cause failure.... we've tried, suceeded in some tanks and failed in others.

I'm considering removing all of the macro algae from the refuge on my 25g and replacing it with Xenia as primary means of exporting nutrients...In hope of getting lucky and actually being able to get it started and take hold..

[segraves1]

COULD it have something to do with the toothpick method I'm using to attempt attachment (ie: too much trama)? This morning it SEEMS like it is "thinking" about opening (I see a head "crack a bit" here and there).

My 100gal is full of nutrients (I stopped doing water changes for a few months in hopes of working out a natural "cleaning system" and is now covered with brown hair to the point of daily cleaning) and I have started back to doing water changes (yesterday was the first day....changed 20gals).

[jojo22]

If you have that many nutrients then maby you should try to aclimate them longer. going from a low nutrient tank to one with a high concentration could be stressful.

[JustDavidP]

I've used toothpicks, crazyglue, dental floss etc. They all work fine. I actually had an incident where one was pulled through a pump and shredded. Some of the "parts" settled in and grew from there.

Dave

[lReef lKeeper]

just for what it is worth ... i cant keep xenia in any tanks EXCEPT for my prop tank !! and it has been set up for the least amount of time !! if i try to put a frag in my display tank ... GONER. but it stays alive and is starting to take over my prop tank.

Dakar, when you get the macro out let me know so i can send you another frag. they seem to be fine after the little "staying closed for a couple days" episode.

[Tom]

Keep an eye on that Damsel, Segraves. I have "waving hand" Xenia in my main tank. They are doing just fine. I have to keep my pulsing Xenia in my refugium or my Blue Damsel will nibble on it and eventually kill it. I have witnessed him biting off and eating polyps and returning for more.
Very uncool... I am keeping the pulsing Xenia in the refugium until I can catch the Damsel and swap places with the Xenia. I also had a similar problem with my decorator crab

[segraves1]

hmmm...guess I will have to watch those littls brats....

[seahorsedreams]

Another clear example of no one really knowing what makes xenia "tick".

[saxman]

temp is at 82 (the chiller keeps it between 81.6 and 82.2),

there's your problem...xenia needs lower temps...for SURE. at 82* it literally melts.

is there a reason you run your tank at such a high temp? we begin to worry if our reef approaches 80*, and try to run it at 76*.

[JustDavidP]

That may be why it grows like weeds in my pony tank too...it's at 76-78F.

D

[The coral Bandit]

Dakar, your going to use them refug let me know how that works. Would you suggest replacing my shaving brush plant with them

[dakar]

Just from our trial, we didn't have a lot of luck with the shaving brush plants, we started out with 5 of them, at first they looked really cool... but after a few months they began to lose thier shape with needles/leaves outgrowing others and others just falling apart. Eventually they just croaked, they were in the display and made a pretty big mess, that pretty much did us in with them.

I don't know that I'd change anything if it's working well for you then maybe it's better off left alone. Personally I like to experiment a little too much sometimes for my own good....but when I get the notion I'll switch up to a Xenia fuge and see how well it works out. Right now I'm working out some details and $$$ for another tank... I'll post details once I get things rolling.

[segraves1]

there's your problem...xenia needs lower temps...for SURE. at 82* it literally melts.

is there a reason you run your tank at such a high temp? we begin to worry if our reef approaches 80*, and try to run it at 76*.


too hot for xenia? really?

well the reason I'm running my tank as warm as I am is a number of local reef guys made a really good point......many reefs in the wild run upwards of 82-84 degrees....

With that said, I guess it wouldn't hurt to bring the temps down a little and see if things look any different. I went and adjusted the chiller to keep the tank around 80 and give it a day before I lower it some more (don't want to push it down too fast).

[seahorsedreams]

Chris, yes there are a group of people that like a warmer tank. I'm not saying they are wrong, but that is outside the norm and more people don't "subscribe" to that way of thinking than do. The general idea behind it is that it increases coral metabolism and accelerates growth. Although some reefs in the ocean run high temps I do not believe that is safe in a closed system. Many ocean reefs have bleached from longer elevated temps.

Xenias is one of the corals I have found to melt in higher temps.

[Sweetpea]

Just wanted to throw in that I remember reading somewhere about a theory that xenia likes iodine. I'm not suggesting that you start supplementing, especially if you don't have a test for it. However, I wonder if different salt mixes might be a contributing factor here?

[saxman]

Xenias do appreciate iodine, but so do many other critters we keep. in this instance, i'd say the problem is temperature-related, especially if there's a good WC regimen in place (which should theoretically replenish the iodine levels). also, if the tank is being fed frozen food(s), this will provide small amounts of iodine as well.

as mentioned, i wouldn't dose anything i haven't tested for...epspecially something as potentially poisonous as iodine.

[segraves1]

Well, I have been running the tank at 78 (+/-0.5) since Friday and really EVERYTHING looks better. I guess the high temps were the problem. Everything is open and looking better than ever so I'm just going to keep with that. I do 10% (~15gals) every two weeks (easier than 20% once a month and to me seems like it should keep things more stable instead of "up and down"). Have also been running the skimmer REALLY REALLY wet (to get rid of an algae problem) and the water is clearing up nicely.

[segraves1]

question about iodine....

everyone keeps saying "so dangerous...can kill things"

Lougals says "1 drop per 25gals per week" (something like that)

yet I found when I had my old 20gal, I was putting in upwards of 10-15drops per week and things were growing like crazy (xenia, macros, zoes).....

[seahorsedreams]

I gotta ask to clarify? You put 10 -15 drops of iodine in a tank when the instructions were to put one drop?

You were testing or something , right?

[JustDavidP]

http://www.clickmagazine.net/cm/emoticons/sillyface2.gif

[lReef lKeeper]

oh, HE IS BUSTED !! you better be testing for iodine. at high levels iodine can destroy your whole livestock collection.

[segraves1]

I gotta ask to clarify? You put 10 -15 drops of iodine in a tank when the instructions were to put one drop?

You were testing or something , right?

nope.....at the time I was just watching things and noticed a trend to things looking "better and better". My corals (zenia and zoes) were growing like wild and all my inverts were molting on a regluar basis. It literally went "the more I put, the better things looked" so I kept uping it a drop a week.....

now with that said, since I have moved into LPS, I am putting much less iodine just to be safe

[seahorsedreams]

Do more water changes and you will see happy corals without the risk.

[uscharalph]

My Xenia definately likes cooler temps, but not too cool.

[Whoyah]

I agree, too on the cooler temp theory for xenia. I have had a very sizable mother colony for years in my tank. I would frag it hard and it would just grow back bigger and stonger. Recently however I noticed a dramactic die off of my xenia. I could not figure out what was causing the problem until I saw that my heater was stuck on. My tank was 82 and the heater was still going. I unplugged it and the temp settled down to the 77. The xenia bounced back very well.