Looking for good Beginner's Guides.

[Iconz]

Alright, time to drop the pride and stop searching for reading material myself. I hope this is the best place to post this. If not please direct me to that location :P
After several days of reading, I still don't know where to begin. So for that, I'll turn to you all... Where do I begin? Is there an ideal way to learn this hobby? I'm definitly not getting impatient, I just want to make sure I'm not tearing down the wrong road. :) So, is there any good books for beginners? Any advised as to where to start?

Thanks in advance.

-Iconz

[Fatman]

reefkeeping.com has awsome articles and allows you to go back to old issues and best of all its FREE!

[Iconz]

Thanks fatman, I'll get on that! :)

[lReef lKeeper]

before i recommend a book ... what kind of tank are you thinking of starting REEF or FOWLR ?? there is a pretty big differance in the two.

[Iconz]

That's just it. I honestly don't know the difference. I know I wanna go SW and both plants/REEF and fish. What is the difference?

[lReef lKeeper]

cetain things are just a bit different in the 2. for example ... reef : temp 78 - 82, SG : 1.024 - 1.025. FOWLR : temp 76 - 80, SG : 1.019 - 1.025. not really huge differances but they can make a differance. the books and web pages listed above look like good choices.

[Iconz]

Gotya. Okay, I'll check the site out in detail. Thanks again! But, is there a book as well? I don't see one listed above. :(

[lReef lKeeper]

as provides by Whoya (shad) in another post !!

http://www.amazon.com/Conscientious-...e=UTF8&s=books

http://www.amazon.com/Natural-Reef-A...e=UTF8&s=books

http://www.amazon.com/Aquarium-Coral...e=UTF8&s=books
sendpm.gif

[Fatman]

Yea what type of corals if you go reef are you looking to get into. You want to get into clams too? See, my example was I wanted nothing to hold me back farther along when I wanted to get anything so I went with Metal Halides. But if your going to mainly keep fish and some softies T5s or VHOs are good enough. So basically you need to figure out what you want then ask around and work your way from there.

[Iconz]

That's just it, I don't know what the different types are, I really havent gotten there yet. I know I want some attractive fish, as well as coral, but I'm honestly not sure how much of each I can have in 1 tank. I've heard the rule of 1" of fish per gallon of water. Is that a good ratio? You all are gonna really hafta break it down to simple terms for me, but I'll get there! Thanks!

[jojo22]

I would suggest the book "the contcentious marine aquarist" by Robert Fenner. Great book. The main thing to remember is everyone does things just a little different, so if you get two conflicting peices of advise it's just that they do things different and either way may work for your tank.

[Steven Pro]

Mike Paletta's The New MArine Aquarium is an excellent beginner's book. Easy to read plain language. Fully illustrated. And, only about 150 pages or so. Not intimidating at all.

[Iconz]

Awesome, I found Robert Fenner's Book online last night, and will probably order it. It kinda scared me that it was printed alomst 10 years ago though. As with other things, I'm sure ALOT has changed since then, or am I wrong?

Thanks steven, I'll look at that one too!

Alright, I stumbled onto this this morning, can you all verify if this method is efficent, effective, and a good way to do it?

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=912378&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

thanks!

[Fatman]

A good breakdown on corals


Mushroom Corals : the soft corals that look like mushrooms growing.

LPS Keepers (Large Polyp Stony) Meaning they have big polyps in which to filter the water for food food (they usually require direct feeing but not always) and have a stony exoskeleton.

Soft Coral Keepers : These are most of the corals you see swishing back and forth, frogspawn, hammer, anything that soft and basically moving.

SPS Keepers : These are very popular are called (Small Polyp Stony) They have tiny polyps, and usually grow extremely nice, they usualyl require alot of light (Like metal halides) but Ive heard of keeping them under T5s.

Zoanthids: Also called button Polyps, they come in a varierty of colors and create a carpet of them wherever you place them depending on your tank they can grow extremely fast.

Here are the two animals ( I dont remember any others off the top of my head) that require light

Clams : They usually require metal halide, but Ive heard of people keeping them under T5s *extremely close to the top of the tank*

Anenomies(sp?): where clown fish like to "chill" these guys are also very dependent on light, I would only recommend Metal Halide for them, as mine are so happy at mid-day when the big lights turn on.

If anyone wants to add anymore info feel free.

[Iconz]

awesome info on both of my threads FM... I'm gonna go now and do some window shopping online to get and idea of the cost of these precious corals, and also to find out which ones are appealing to me. I'm kinda a visual learner. I see it once or twice and I've pretty much have it committed to memory.

I saw bobby's allards clown like chilling in the Soft Coral Keepers, at least I think from your definition of them, that what they were. Lemme get the link and I'll edit this post with it. Thanks again!

-IC

EDIT:
LINK: http://www.captivereefing.com/showthread.php?t=3910

[jojo22]

I would not personally be worrying about corals YET??? I would be concentrateing on set up and maintnence. Not to say window shopping is bad but I think it may be putting the cart a little before the horse at this point.

[Iconz]

K. note taken. I honestly am at your all mercy on this. I'm just tryin to get a lil knowledge on each, just to kinda familiarize myself with the termonology (sp?). Because some of what you all are saying is Greek to me. lol. Sumps, Refuge, T5, metal halide... all unknowns, for example! Keep it coming though, i'm tryin to find the definitions of each term as i see it! Thanks!

-IC

[Fatman]

T5 is a powerful type of compact lighting. (cheaper than Metal Halides)

Metal Halides are the most intense of lights, the ones that cause the ripple effect. *also called HQI* (also usually most expensive)

Sump is where people usually put their pump, bio balls (or live rock) and other items to keep them out of view of the aquarium, also its where you will pour your fresh water when water begings to evaporate.

Refuge (Refugium) is a small tank or part of the sump where to grow macroalgea (good type) to export nutrients with and/or have some live rocks and small items to grow pods.

Pods are like little bugs, usually good, like mini crustaceans that fish feed on in your reef and other organisms too.

[Iconz]

awesome! i'm soo on the edege of my chair at this point, itching to get started! heh. I'm a huge fan of DIY stuff too, so this is going to be like a little hobby inside a bigger one (Reefing). I just started a new job, and my boss said they have nothing for me to do for nearly 3 weeks, so I get to sit at my desk and read, which is what i've been doing for the past 2 days now! The link above has been VERY informative, by far my best source yet! Thanks for the definitions, they help alot!

[lReef lKeeper]

this is where Jojo and i disagree ... i think you should know what kind of corals you may want to keep BEFORE anything else. this way you will know the types of things you will need (example : metal halide [any coral you want and clams], power compact [most soft corals], VHO [all soft and most all LPS, and some sps corals], or T5 lighting [all soft, most LPS, and some sps corals]).

although you WILL need to start the tank AT LEAST a month before the corals can go in it, you should know what you want so you know what to buy for them !!

[Fatman]

this is where Jojo and i disagree ... i think you should know what kind of corals you may want to keep BEFORE anything else. this way you will know the types of things you will need (example : metal halide [any coral you want and clams], power compact [most soft corals], VHO [all soft and most all LPS, and some sps corals], or T5 lighting [all soft, most LPS, and some sps corals]).

although you WILL need to start the tank AT LEAST a month before the corals can go in it, you should know what you want so you know what to buy for them !!

I agree with you there bobby. I was recommended to figure out what I want in the tank first, so that I understand what I will need for the tank (lighting filtration etc).

[jojo22]

this is where Jojo and i disagree ... i think you should know what kind of corals you may want to keep BEFORE anything else. this way you will know the types of things you will need (example : metal halide [any coral you want and clams], power compact [most soft corals], VHO [all soft and most all LPS, and some sps corals], or T5 lighting [all soft, most LPS, and some sps corals]).

although you WILL need to start the tank AT LEAST a month before the corals can go in it, you should know what you want so you know what to buy for them !!

I think I may have been misunderstood here. What I was trying to say was worry about plumbing, how to do water changes, and general set-up. I guess I should have been more clear. I definately agree with these guys that you need to know what you want before getting your lights or for that fact a skimmer. My main point was to start getting the basics down before you get into corals and there needs. Just to be clear I agree that you should know if you wnat softies, lps,sps before getting your lights or skimmer, or your return pump. Ok enough rambeling I hope this clears up what I was trying to say.

[Iconz]

well, i went tonight to petco (out of curiousity) and got a printout of all the SW fish they offer and their prices. The LFS was closed already, else i woulda went there.

[jojo22]

I would also check online for info on the species you like. Large chain pet stores are famous for haveing VERY incorect info. BTW what caught you're eye??

[Iconz]

I saw a GORGEOUS solid yellow tang that was about 2.5"... i mean beautiful! :) And of course some nice looking tiny tomato clowns, and some really pretty percula clowns. They didn't have much on display, but those 3 were the most appealing. They alose had some turbo snails, a couple Gobys, A Niger Trigger, and a few of others that I can't remember. It was fun! I'm addicted and I don't even have a tank yet! arghhh!

[jojo22]

Liquid crack I tell ya!!!...LOL

[Iconz]

haha! well i just browsed through some corals online... and here are some that I found appealing. some more than others. I just don't know how to catagorize them and have NO knowledge on Compatibility issues (if any exist).

All of these were viewed on saltwaterfish.com

Christmas Tree Coral
Carnations Red/Orange
Distichopora - Purple
Elegant Coral
Fine Grape Coral
Fox Coral
Frogspawn Coral
Galaxea Coral
Goniopora - Yellow
Hammer Coral
Hard Tube Coco Worm
Leather - Devil's Hand
Leather - Stubby Finger
Leather - Toadstool
Mushroom Coral - Blue Spotted
Mushroom Coral - Blue Stripe
Mushroom Coral - Fuzzy Grass
Mushroom Coral - Striped Green Metallic
Mushroom Polyp - Green Ricordea
Mushroom Polyp - Orange Ricordea
Mushroom Polyp - Umbrella
Pagoda Cup - Colored
Plate Coral - Green
Plate Coral - Green Long Tentacle
Plate Coral - Neon Green
Plate Coral - Pink Long Tentacle
Sun Coral - Orange
Torch Coral
and a few zoos!

[jojo22]

I don't know if I am remembering right but I think plate corals and the pagoda cup need preaty good lighting. So you may feel free to consider this a bump so someone that knows plates better can help confirm this or tell you how much of a nut job I am. The rest of these guys are not dependant on MH of t5/vho lighting if I am remembering. But don't quote me on that as I am heavily sedated at the moment for sever migraines.

[Fatman]

Petco is a place I would not recommend getting fish, I guess im a bit blessed and have around 10 to 20 LFS in my area, but I defintely would not do petco.

Jojo I see the point you were trying to make and apologize for the confusion.

Iconz Jojo is right because tank+ plumbing come before lights, skimmer etc. So figure out your tank, stand, and plumbing set-up.

PS: You always want alot of flow, i forgot what the minimum turn over is.

[lReef lKeeper]

i didn't know you had migraines Jojo !! my wife gets them BAD ... sees spots, literally sick, and all that good stuff. sorry for the misunderstanding, buddy !!

i would say you will need AT THE VERY LEAST a good set of High Output T5's or VHO's if you want to keep the plates, pagoda (cup coral), fox, fragspawn, elegant, goniopora, or hammer corals. i am not to sure on the galaxia (VERY AGGRESSIVE). and for the Distichopora you will need metal halides.

most everything else can live under power compact lighting.

a lot of people believe that 40x tank volume is "ideal" flow rate.

[jojo22]

Yeah if you look at Calfo's thread he suggests 30-60X turnover. I think I'm gonna save up and get a bigger pump before I fire up the 72.

[Iconz]

Gotya, I put notes next to all of those. Now, if i avoid using Distichopora, i don't need MH's, right? From what I've read about lighting, I believe they do produce ALOT of heat, and are quite expensive, correct?

[jojo22]

Yes on both counts but keep in mind that both of these issues can be fixed. If you build a canopy and DIY/RETRO the lighting and use a couple of fans it would cut down on both heat and price.

[Iconz]

hmm, k... by the way! GREAT news!!! my funding is coming next week!... my wife and i have/had our house for sale in GA where we just moved from, and it just sold today! They're wanting a rush close since they're payin cash, so I should have the money by a week from tomorrow! WOO HOO! :)

[jojo22]

CONGRATS BUDDY!!! If you don't already have one maby pick up a digital camera. WE LOVE PICS.

[Iconz]

Heh, my wife is a photographer, actually! heh So, we've got digital camera's that cost more than 5,000 :). I sold her on this whole thing on her being able to take the pix, LOL! So, you all will be getting plenty, once I get started!

Edit: Thanks btw jojo!

[Iconz]

Alirght, my next BIG question. I'm scared to know the answer already. My wife and I are currently in an Apt. We are on the ground floor, so, I'm not worried about floor reinforcement, or water leakage. But my question is, if I go ahead and do this, and have to move in a year, or 8 months, or whenever, with a 75g tank, am I gonna lose everything in the move? Or, should I just wait until I get into a house to start this hobby?

[Fatman]

I'd consider maybe getting a smaller tank if a move is possible then, with a large sump/refugium. This way you'll have the small tank which is easy to move, but the large water volume to keep your parameters in check. I just moved a 90 gallon, that had been set up for about 2 years, and all the fish survived and stuff, but it only took 30 mins (it was all in the same city) I can not imagine moving cities, and having good luck with a move.

[Iconz]

Well, if it comes, it WILL be a local move into a house. 30 minz at most.

EDIT: Also, if I do go with a smaller tank than 75g, won't it DRASTICALY (sp?) reduce my selection of fish?

[RHAPALA]

PROLLY WILL ........ALSO THE AMOUNT YOU CAN KEEP IN IT ....AND FROM WHAT I READ THE HARDER TO KEEP EVERYTHING IN CHECK

[lReef lKeeper]

yes it will reduce the fish list that you will be able to keep !! i just moved a 55gal. reef last Feb. (didn't lose 1 thing). but i moved ALL of my water too. the next time we move (to a house) i have to move a 125gal. reef from the second floor. that is going to suck !!
i suggest taking all of your water with you. and getting some of the styrofoam boxes that your LFS has things shipped in. you can use these to house your fish and corals while the move is going on !!

[jojo22]

There are a lot of threads out there on moveing tanks. I would read them and learn the process, then after knowing what kind of work you will have to do I would pick a tank size you feel confortable with. Or you could get like a 30 gal for now and turn it into a kick butt fuge when you move. ALWAYS take the tanks down last move and put the tanks up first. The less time everything is in boxes and bags/trashcans the better.

[Fatman]

5 gallon buckets (like the paint ones) are AWSOME. (obviously sterile never used). I get these for about 2$ a pop and loaded up about 70 gallons for the 90 gallon move. Turned out great.

[Iconz]

Sounds great! Would rubbermaid trashcans (new, unused) work as well?

[Fatman]

Sounds great! Would rubbermaid trashcans (new, unused) work as well?

Yea but they would be extremely heavy, talking about 30 to 40 gallons x 8lbs each = 240 to 320 lbs.

[hummer]

good info guys bobby ithink you just sold me on the metal halides i was concidering the 48"orbit extremes 4x130 what u think? wow 30 to 60 x flow my 55 gal what would it take to get that?

[Iconz]

Bob, it'd be a CLM or closed loop manifold. Basicaly, you drill a hole (or have it done) in your tank in the bottom 1/2 of it, and it gravity feeds an external pump, which takes the water and directly puts in back into a pvc tube ring that fits right into the top of your tank. Here's a good, detailed link that you can read up on this:

http://www.captivereefing.com/showthread.php?t=3937
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=520145

And some pictures here:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=585283

Hope this helps!

-JD