LONG NOSE BUTTERFLY HELP!!!!!!!

[jojo22]

Ok here's the deal. I was in petco today and saw a longnose butterfly. He is ove 75% covered in ich. PETCO policy states that if a fish is more than 25% covered they have to FW dip/add copper and if the fish does not improve by the end of the shift it must be killed. So after talking to the "AQUARIST" I convinced her to give me the fish if it is not better by the end of her shift. I am going back a 3:00pm today to see the fish and possibly bring it home to save it (if I can). I have set up a QT with the same params as the store and have everything ready just incase he comes back with me. So the long and skinny is I need a crash course in long nose butterfly care. Help please I usually research first but if he is not better and I don't take him he will be killed and I can't let that happen without trying to save him!!

[jojo22]

Oh yeah feeding is my most wanted answer at the moment. I don't think he was/is eating at the store

[saxman]

your best bet in immediate terms would be enriched live ABS or small ghost shrimp. you may need to supply live pods for the life of the fish if you can't get it on frozen mysis eventually.

[jojo22]

ABS I'm drawing a blank here buddy?? Thank you for the timely reply. I really do try to research first but this litterally could be life or deth for the fish if I don't take him!

[jojo22]

OK I FEEL DUMB Adult Brine Shrimp. Thought I would say it for any new guys that didn't know. My mind is not with me as I try to prepare. All this work for a fish I MIGHT bring home. But I know you guys undestand the feeling so I don't feel that crazy although the wife thinks I am.

[saxman]

no worries...i shoulda been more clear, i guess.

as for that policy...i can't believe they honestly think a fish is gonna turn around in a day...pfft.

let us know how it goes...that fish is one of my faves.

[jojo22]

He is home and temp acclimateing. Do you guys think I should drip acclimate after this or would that just cause more stress and maby I should just float the bag and dump him in the QT???

[graphixx]

I would at least float him for a while. dont want to add too much stress for him. do you have some sort of medication for the tank?????

[jojo22]

Dare I say it but since he is so bad I am useing copper. I will try to get some pics of him ASAP. I will also try to get some pics of our newest tank. It's a whole gallon before sand and rock.

[Iconz]

Obviously, i'm no help, but Good Luck joe! let us know how this guy does!

[jojo22]

Saxman the lfs (petco) had him on a diet of nothing but frozen brine. which he happily ate. I have some mysis soaking in garlic for when I let him out of his bag.

Greg so you are saying to just drop him in after floating without drip acclimateing?

[jojo22]

Thank you Iconz that means a lot comeing from a new guy on the site. Not to say that others don't care but just the fact that we haven't know eachother that long and you took your time says someting. I don't care what I said about ya....J/K never said anything about you.

[lReef lKeeper]

if the fish is THAT bad, i would float him for a while then drop him in the QT tank. get ready to battle the enemy my friend. ICH sux !!

[jojo22]

Yeah tell me about it. But I have to give the little guy a chance. Can anyone suggest any other practical measures I could take in this epic battle???

[graphixx]

Joe, another thing I would do also just to ease the stress. is put something in there he can hide in. some people use a clay pot or a piece of LR. I would just keep the tank medicated and make sure that he eats and he should pull through. the more at home you can make him feel the better. when I QT a fish I have some plastic plants that I use to put in the tank to kinda give it a "homie" feel. but I think your off on the right foot.

[lReef lKeeper]

Kick Ich works well for me. i dosed my whole 125 and still have enough left to dose my QT tank about 10x. when i got home from work i checked on the powder blue, not a spot on him at the moment, and i am treating with Kick Ich.

[jojo22]

Well some good news and some bad. First the good HE IS ATTACKING THE MYSIS!!! YEAH!!!! The bad is that he is worse than I thought. I just put him in the QT and he is COVERED from head to tail. I think this one might call for 3 feedings a day to keep his energy up and two 25% water changes a day. Anybody see a problem with this???

[graphixx]

I would not do that many water changes. I would do maybe one a day or every other day. that will put added stress on the little guy. I would keep an eye on him for the next 24 hours and see if you see any improvement. then decide how drastic you need to go on the water changes. I would not go anything more than 25 percent a day. that is my 2 cents

[lReef lKeeper]

just stick to your game plan, and be vigilant with it. you will me amazed at the things that a fish can go through and live. i agree with Greg.

[Sweetpea]

You could also soak the mysis in some Selcon. Actually, my LFS was out of Selcon when I went to purchase, so I bought Zoecon and Zoe. I use both (in addition to garlic) for every feeding, and all of my babies (fish and coral) are happy and growing well. I would take any measures available to you to ensure he is eating healthy, as that will help him in his recovery.

As for floating w/o acclimating... you will probably be the best judge here. If he seems really stressed (and you matched QT tank params with the store's), getting the temp level might just be best for him. I put a new fish in QT Saturday, and he looked SO awful in the drip bucket that I added him to the tank a little early. The salinity was off by 0.002, but he perked up right away once he was in the tank. Sometimes you simply have to make decisions based on your personal observations.

I wish you and your new "baby" the best! Please keep us updated and post pics when you have a chance!!!

[jojo22]

Well this thing is a pig and he seems to be doing fine with haveing just been droped in. I think my water is away cleaner as it is brand new fres made water, nothing had a chance to dirty it up yet. Over the next few days I will be reduseing the SG as of right now it is at 1.022 I think I will drop it down to 1.016 and see if that helps. I will also be replenishing the dreaded copper as I change and add water so that he will get a constant dose.

Thank you all for your careing I will try to get pics up soon.

Joe

[jojo22]

Here are some pics!!

[graphixx]

right on Joe, he is a cute little buggar!!!! actually the pics doesnt look that bad but I am sure its worse in person. good luck buddy, keep us posted!!!

[jojo22]

WILL DO! Right now he is still chomping on mysis. is it possible for fish to puke from eating to much??? I have no idea where he is putting it.

[lReef lKeeper]

he probably has not been fed since being at the LFS. he is probably filling up, not knowing his next meal will be tomarrow and not next month.

[saxman]

that's GREAT that the fish is eating the mysis! multiple feedings will definitely help keep its strength up, and the HUFA's in the mysis will put some weight on the fish. i think if you can keep the fish eating during treatment, you stand a good chance with the cure.

[jojo22]

HUFA's what are these??? Fatty acids???

[saxman]

yeppers...but the "unsaturated" type...the good ones.

[jojo22]

OK I had a little problem the heater stuck and temp got up to about 90!!! I got it back down slowly but now I can see the little guys ribs and he doesn't seem to want to eat anything. What if anything can I do????

[graphixx]

just get the temp down to normal and turn the lights off that will calm him down. and feed him in the morning. has he ate today at all????

[jojo22]

This morning but not since. His ugre to eat if you will is not what it was when I got him??? I don't know if he is full and knows mor will come soon or if he is not eating at all?? He apears to go after the mysis and he caught them rather well at first but now for some reason I can't tell if he is catching them or not but either way he is not going after them as agressively as he did at first. He also seems to watch his reflection in the bottom of the tank when it is feeding time.

One more question has anyone else ever seen these fish hang out in a verticle position. He is constantly putting his bottom side against the back or side glasses.

[graphixx]

yeah I have seen them do that. do you have anything in the tank or is it bare?????? I would get something in there. even if its a fake plastic plant. that way it will give a little effect of shelter and ease the stress

[jojo22]

I'll grab a plastic plant tomorrow. I haven't had any of those in about a year since I gave up freshwater.

[graphixx]

right on, the way I look at a QT for a stressed fish is, the more natural you can make the tank look the more stress it takes off the fish. and you can do it on the cheap too. I have seen people use clay pots and even PVC tubes

[jojo22]

I just put in a 1 gallon water jug with the top cut off so he can use it as a "cave". so maby once he sees it in there it will help.

[andrewr]

whenever i have gotten a fish with ich or people ask me what i do i tell them this: over the course of a couple of days I drop the salinity down to 1.017 and raise the temperature of the water to 82 or 83 degrees (speeds the life cycle of c. irritans) I keep vacuuming the bottom of the tank every 2-3 days with a partial water change. I also use a little bit of formalin and soak the food in garlic (i know there is no science to support this but if I eat a lot of garlic I dont get bitten by mosquitos, might work for ich) I dont like to use copper as it is very hard on the fish. I would only use it if the fish is not eating. However, since your fish is eating I would take the copper out slowly in water changes only. Getting the fish to eat is the most important thing. Yours is doing that. Give the fish some time and keep up with the husbandry and when he shows no signs for about 6 weeks then I would say that he is fully healed. This is just the procedure that I have always used and it works wonders for me

[jojo22]

That is very simmilar to the process I am useing only I do many more water changes. I keep a very bare bones QT (just a prefrance) and I feel that when a fish is sick water quality needs to be at it's finest. also since I am feeding mysis 3 times a day I don't want an acumulation of un eaten food in there to throw the water params. out of wack. I know copper is very agressive and I generally only use it to get very EXTREAM cases under control. If things continue the way they are right now I will be switching to a less invasive med this weekend. He is down to about 25% covered with ich.

[andrewr]

glad that he is pulling through....good luck they are the hardiest of all the reef safe b/flys in my opinion

[jojo22]

Yeah well things went preaty far south. Before anyone says anything I know the possible consequences of my actions so please do not remind me as I am already worried enough about them. I had the heater that was in the tank and a backup. well they both decided to take a crap on me. I came into the room that my QT is in and the second heater had to go bad so it stuck in the on position. I know it was stuck because I turned the adjuster knob all the way down and it would not turn off. The fish was floating around as if he where dead the water current moveing him. I looked at the temp and it was over 90. needless to say all this had to happen when I had to leave for school in about 10 min. so I took him out and put him in the 35 gal hex display. Normally I would not do this and do not suggest anyone else do so. I understand that I run the risk off spreading the ICH and infecting all the inhabitents. I have already taken preventative measures to help stop this by lowering the SG and doseing with ich-attack. As of lights out the fish has regained a lot of strength and is eating well again. After all I have put this guy through I couldn't bring myself to put him down (thought about it breefly when I passed the freezer on my way to the 35 but couldn't do it). I know this is risky and dangerous but something is telling me all will work out. At least for the other inhabitants in my tank. All I can say is I hope it was the big guy upstairs talking to me and all works out.

[RHAPALA]

wow bud all i can say is GOOD LUCK and i hope ya still have him when i come to visit

[Iconz]

Sorry to hear about that joe, I hope he pulls through, and I commend you on your detailed husbandry.

[lReef lKeeper]

wow jojo, that sux !! but on a good note ... it will be a lot easier (and cheaper) for you to treat a 35 hex than it was for me to treat the 125.

[jojo22]

Well he is looking a lot better. But the fishy gods have decided that I be tested right now. I come home after 14 hrs. of working and just found my baby, the blue tang stuck to a part of the filter intake that shouldn't even have suction. She was still breating so only time will tell.

[Sweetpea]

What a tough string of luck there, Joe! I'm really sorry... I hope they both pull through for you!!!

[jojo22]

Well as of this morning (for me anyways it's afternoon to be technical) she is doing OK! Bright blue and swimmine around. The butterfly is also doing well.

[Sweetpea]

Glad to hear it!!! :)

[AuntKaren]

jojo, best of luck with the butterfly! You have heart, that's for sure! C'mon fishie get better!

[Iconz]

joe, u got an update for us!?

[hummer]

did it live hope it did good luck

[jojo22]

Well I'm still fighting so I will let everyone know when it ends.

[bobert]

hope it turns out ok