Outdoor Propagation

[Fatman]

I know alot of people that do outdoor propagation using natural sunlight set up a green house and all these fancy things. I wanted to try to go on a smaller scale for now. How do outdoor pollution affect our tank/reef if it were outside? Talking about dust, pollen, bugs? etc Im guessing high phosphate levels?

2nd, how to control temperature with the sun beating down on your tank.

3rd is aluminum safe to use in a reef tank? if not what metal is? (obviously NO to copper).

My "idea" (just an idea for now) was to put a tank outside (roof, etc etc) semi covered or something and set up a radiator system inside the house which is cool at 70 degrees to blow cool air accross an aluminum radiator and return to the tank.

What do you guys think? I know im a dreamer ;)

[jojo22]

Ok I would do everything possible to keep bugs out of the tank, if they die in there they will decay and we know where that will lead.

Second I would think that a chiller or heate exchanger would be a nesecitiy

Third I have heard that aluminum is ok but would try to coat it as it will not rust but it will corrode.

And lastly if I recall corectly the best metal to use for a heat exchanger is titanium. Much more expensive but will last and do it's job in the long run.

Hope this helps buddy!!

Joe

[Fatman]

Ok I would do everything possible to keep bugs out of the tank, if they die in there they will decay and we know where that will lead.

Second I would think that a chiller or heate exchanger would be a nesecitiy

Third I have heard that aluminum is ok but would try to coat it as it will not rust but it will corrode.

And lastly if I recall corectly the best metal to use for a heat exchanger is titanium. Much more expensive but will last and do it's job in the long run.

Hope this helps buddy!!

Joe

Well i figured bugs would = food for the scavengers, but a new would not hurt compared to how much light they would get from the sun.

Titanium radiator don't excist which basically means its going to cost heavy $$. I was planning this cause I have some plastic containers there (heavy duty acrylic) except their orange (yuck) to try this out with. I also have an aluminum radiator with a fan. My idea was to use a thermostat for cooling during the day and heating if needed at night.

Does the aluminum corrosion affect the water? Ive always heard its kinda like a "surface" rust.

[Fatman]

I just checked aluminum does not corrode, instead it produced an aluminum oxide "buffer" that protects the aluminum.

Search google for Aluminum rust?

[jojo22]

Yeah I know aluminum can not rust persay as it has very low to no iron content in it but the oxide buffer is a form of corrosion. It is caused by the detereoration of the aluminum at the molecular level. Aluminum oxide can not form without the presence of aluminum which stand to reason that this oxide is coming from within the aluminum so I guess in essence deterioration would be a better term. But I was just trying to keep things simple.

I personally would not let any metal besides titanium have prolonged exposure to my tank water as most metals will leach contaminats into your water. Also I have seen a DIY titanium heat exchanger somewhere I think I may remember where. If I can find it again I will post a link for you. Have you considered the possibility of geothermal heat stability???

[Fatman]

Yeah I know aluminum can not rust persay as it has very low to no iron content in it but the oxide buffer is a form of corrosion. It is caused by the detereoration of the aluminum at the molecular level. Aluminum oxide can not form without the presence of aluminum which stand to reason that this oxide is coming from within the aluminum so I guess in essence deterioration would be a better term. But I was just trying to keep things simple.

I personally would not let any metal besides titanium have prolonged exposure to my tank water as most metals will leach contaminats into your water. Also I have seen a DIY titanium heat exchanger somewhere I think I may remember where. If I can find it again I will post a link for you. Have you considered the possibility of geothermal heat stability???


My understanding of geothermal heat stability is using the ground water as a cool in its own closed loop, and running it through the tank water without cross contamination. Problem is I live in Miami, FL and we have water at 10ft , meaning its extremely warm and not really a viable option especially for the summer months.

The reason I was considering the in house cooling was because of the airconditioning I run(everyone does) to keep the house between 70 to 75'.
Thus its energy that im using anyways to cool water.

[jojo22]

I think that would be worth a try. I was just trying to give a few other options. Let me know how things work out as you may be on the verge of a great advancement for the hobby. Wow think of the members that could bring!!!

[Fatman]

I think that would be worth a try. I was just trying to give a few other options. Let me know how things work out as you may be on the verge of a great advancement for the hobby. Wow think of the members that could bring!!!


I'll probably begin with xenias as test subjects (poor xenias) and see how the aluminum reacts with them, then would come the poor chromies =P. We'll see as current funding is low ;), since I still have to finish the 90gallon.

[jojo22]

Please keep us posted

[dakar]

If we tried that up here we'd have a perfectly preserved reef.... perfectly preserved as in a block of ice. Not even sure if a green house with full day sunlight would work for us, at least not without a couple hundred $$$ a month to heat it. When I left for work yesterday the temp was 6. LOL

[spsreefer]

the university of maine has an out door coral farm and its cold there. I will try to find a link

[Fatman]

the university of maine has an out door coral farm and its cold there. I will try to find a link


Have you checked if its under a greenhouse?

Most that I see if its cold, they greenhouse it with insulation, but warm I have not seen any secrets on keeping the water cool for cheap.

[spsreefer]

Its in a greenhouse. I have seen people bury 40-50 feet of hose underground and plum it into the system to use the cold earth to cool water.

[melev]

You would do best to contact some guys that have run greenhouse prop systems.

I don't believe the aluminum radiator plan will work. Saltwater is a corrosive, after all. Running water through it 24/7 can't be healthy for your livestock. I can't think of a single thing I've ever put in my tank that was made of aluminum in 9 years, and any aluminum brackets over my tank usually were pitted just due to salt creep.

I've too thought about a greenhouse in my backyard. What I'd love to do is have a couple of very shallow grow out trays, and then plumb that back to a huge sump in the house. My thoughts were similar to yours, in that the inside air is so cool the water wouldn't require a heavy chiller. However, the massive sump inside the house would add to the indoor humidity and probably deterioration of my home.

Using geothermal methods can work if your plumbing isn't too insulated. Most PVC and tubing tends to insulate itself, and the transfer of heat isn't easily achieved. What I've read mentioned how you'd have to have super long serpentine plumbing buried. One project was considered, and those with greater minds applied some mathematics to predict a realistic outcome, and that one needed something like 2 miles of buried pipe.

Fans can work in your favor to cool the water/greenhouse - but humidity in Florida will limit that effectiveness.

You might ask Anthony in his forum if he has some suggestions, since he used to run a greenhouse business.

[JustDavidP]

Do you know Dick Hilgers? He's in Florida now, but was from Madison, WI. He's in the process of starting an aquaculture/farming adventure too. He's a great guy with a lot of practical experience and is NEVER at a loss for words ;)

He has a site.. let me find it.

Dave

[JustDavidP]

Here it is:

www.theculturedreef.com

Tell him I said hello...

D

[Fatman]

Melv im going to research about aluminum a bit more before I get into it. From my understanding though aluminum corrodes at an extremely slow rate because of its oxide coating it creates to protect it self. Also when full immersed in water (which the inside will have a continuous flow) its even slower! But I have to look up more information when i have the chance.

[bobert]

what about snow and rain and stuff like that you better cover that thing up good

[hummer]

sounds out of the ordinary thats for sure ... but very cool

[Steven Pro]

1.) You do want to keep out as much dust, dirt, leaves, etc. as possible. In my greenhouse I am going to use nylon window screen over the shutter air intakes to minimize things coming in.

2.) Shade cloth and fans will go a long way along with large aquaria to minimize temperature shifts.

3.) Aluminum is bad.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/july2003/chem.htm

[Fatman]

1.) You do want to keep out as much dust, dirt, leaves, etc. as possible. In my greenhouse I am going to use nylon window screen over the shutter air intakes to minimize things coming in.

2.) Shade cloth and fans will go a long way along with large aquaria to minimize temperature shifts.

3.) Aluminum is bad.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/july2003/chem.htm


Awsome article man, really good read. Apprecaite it.

I really havent had the time to research cause ive been so busy with school.