Is this enough light

[GynMonkey1044]

I have a 120 gallon aquarium that for a long time was a predator tank but I am in the process of changing it over into a reef tank, the tank is 60 long by 18 wide and I believe 24 tall I will double check the height, the corals I want to keep are in generally on the easy side to keep, mainly assorted mushrooms, polyps (star polys, buttons, etc) and maybe some leathers and colt corals I was trying to avoid buying new light so I was wondering if, a coralife 48 inch 4x65 watt power compact and a 36 inch 2x55 watt power compact would be enough for these types of corals, thanks

[jojo22]

I don't think they would work for anything at the bottom of the tank. 24 inches is a lot of water to penitrate (sp), this is just my opinion but for a tank that deep I would say that t-5 or MH would be needed.

Maybe one of our light gurus will step in here and be able to give you a little more help.

P.S. WELCOME TO CR!!!!!!!!

[spookey]

welcome to cr

[Whoyah]

Those lights would probably be ok to start with but you would need to keep the more light hungy corals higher on the rocks. The shrooms would be fine in bottom. If you upgrade, I would recommend a T5 set-up especially for the mix of corals you are talking about. I really enjoy mine and they are ton cheaper then MH. I am even have good luck with an SPS under T5. If you are a DIY type, you can probably retro your PC lights into T5s. Most of the ballasts are the same.

And welcome aboard.

[GynMonkey1044]

I thought that the power compacts were stronger than the T5's, what is the difference between the t5's and the power compacts, what wattage/size/brand of t5's would you reccomend for my size tank, thanks for all the help

[cweber]

Sorry to but in, but when we went on our trip, we stopped at a lfs and the guy told me the same thing. Pcs are better than t-5s. He says pc have a better wavlength than t-5. Does anyone have any opinions. Everything ive read says t-5 over pc.

[jojo22]

In order of light quality (IMO) NO, PC, VHO, T-5, MH

[cweber]

Thats what ive read before. That guy at the lfs must be crazy, he also said pc were more expensive than t-5. Not anywhere i looked.

[iVgOnMaD]

hes talking bout the bulbs, here in CA thats the way it is.

I agree with JOJO, MH or T5HO

[mutts]

you will want a little more light. you will find that while your corals may live in that light they will lose their bright colors and not be as pretty.

[GynMonkey1044]

If I went with two of the 48 inch 260 watt pc's would that be enough? That would be 520 watts total

[mutts]

it would be okay for now, but i would work on getting more. you want at the very least 5watts per gal. thats for soft coral if you get into the hard ones you will want 10 or more.

[Whoyah]

Sorry for the late reply. T5 pump out more light per watt then PCs. Kind of like 500 watts of MH will blow the doors off 500 watts of PC. The other thing about T5 versus PC, it that the bulb life is alot longer. T5 last between 18-24 months, PC 6 months to 12months. The bulbs are around the same price if you shop on line. I have had PCs,MHs and now T5s. I like T5s the best because of the cost setting them up and run plus lower heat. For softies and LPS T5s are just fine IMO. If I get a few seconds I post a picture of my tank.

[Sweetpea]

I agree with the cost perspective. I have a PC fixture that cost around $150, and 9 months after I bought it, I had to spend another $50 for new bulbs. What a pain. :(

Don't get me wrong, I like the PC fixture, and it is plenty adequate for the tanks' inhabitants. However, from someone who is currently using PCs, T5s, and MHs (on different tanks), I really prefer the T5s and MHs. Just my .02...

[hummer]

so then what are these then ...i got 9 watts per gal its a 55 gal only 18 inchs deep

aint these better than the T5

the pics i showed you ... these have the most power on the market for the buck the T5 may have been around longer



im sooooooooo confuzed .....lol

[jojo22]

Nope those are PC lights.

[iVgOnMaD]

i sure they are not VHO? never seen 130w pc bulb.

[iVgOnMaD]

you are right they are PC, but thats a lot of light even if its PC, you could keep sps in there.

T5 will blow away any PC in the same wattage.

[jojo22]

I just said they where PC, they are plenty strong enough, but still PC.

[Whoyah]

I saw this and thought of this thread. There is some very nice tanks shown. I didn't even look at all 38 pages :O of the post.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=421647&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

[slim]

Ok..just my $.02....

Lighting order...NO, PC (close one here NO if they are URI bulbs!), T5HO,and now another close one but I would go with MH and then VHO!

It's all about COLOR!!!

I don't really care anything about the shimmer MH give. But I do love the color VHO gives.

[jojo22]

Actually it's all about PAR and the amount of useable light the corals get in order to live. In which case MH still wins.

[slim]

If I were going to set up a tank, and I am going to make some people mad here, I would use VHOs" Dana Riddle 3/2/2007

[slim]

"I have to admit, the quite possibly, the best tanks I've ever seen, may have been vho tanks." – Adam Blundell

[jojo22]

Ok quotes by other people are good, but can you show me specific data that shows VHO's out perform MH??? Not what someone said but studies with par output, coral growth, things like this. There will always be a few who don't agree but detailed specs about each type of lighting show that MH provides better growth, and a more cost effective lighting option for your tank.

[slim]

That I don't have. I have only used PC and T5's. Here is a link to a web site that I just love. http://www.garf.org/ It's alittle crazy getting around but the tanks there are Wonderful.

I know that MH are the thing of today! VHO is the thing of yesterday but what will be the thing of tomorrow??? LED?? and is it good to do away totally with the past?
There are many that say MH cost more because of the heat. Chillers here in the west are a must have if you run MH. This is all just my $.02 worth for the hobbie...

Thanks,
Will

[jojo22]

In some cases you would be right. But lighting is ALWAYS a good discussion. I think that for coral growth and health MH is the way to go, but VHO's have there place also, I like them (or T-5's) for a bluer look while still running a 10-14 K halide. They still have their place and I think they will stay around for quite a while.

[slim]

JoJo...I just got some numbers on T5's

ATI

Sun Pro 357
Aquablue 336
Blue Plus 311
Actinic 137

D&D/Giesemann

Midday 325
Aquablue 324
Actinic Plus 264
Pure Actinic 157

UVL

Aqua sun 345
Actinic White 293
Super Actinic 210

AquaZ

Sun Pro 285
Ocean Pro 323
Blue Pro 266

Helios

Daylight 309
Super Blue 225

Current Sun Paq

Daylight 10K 272
Blue 252

GE Daylight 340

[jojo22]

What are the numbers?? PAR??? LUX???

[jojo22]

Also what wattages are those bulbs??? 200W of VHO would obviously be better than 70W MH but the cost difference would be huge and once again put the halides at an advantage.

[cweber]

Also wouldnt depth make a difference as well?

[jojo22]

Yes that is where PAR comes into play, The more PAR the more power the light has to punch thru the water.

[slim]

JoJo...sorry that is PAR and they are 48" 54Watt T5's run on a Triad Ballast.

The GE daylight is only about $10.00/bulb.

[slim]

Sorry all the GE T5HO 48" 6500K are $12.95/bulb at reefgreek.com

[jojo22]

So how many bulbs do you (would you) plan to run in order to get a balanced spectrum???

[slim]

I am runnig 4 bulbs with only a reflective aluminum sheet for a reflector.

Back-of-tank.....
UVL AquaSun
Giesemann Aquablue
ATI Blue Plus
UVL Super Actinic
Front.....

I run the back 3 on a Workhorse 7 ballast and the Actinic on a AccuStart Ballast. These are T5HO 48" for a total of 216W over a 55 gallon standard tank. Thats not even 4 watts/gallon and I get good growth.

Thanks,
Will

[jojo22]

What type of corals??? Softies that may be fine but I am fairly sure SPS couldn't grow under that (not enough PAR)

[slim]

JoJo..

I picked this one up 2-19-07
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j285/pickensw/purpleacro.jpg

This was taken middle of May 07
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j285/pickensw/purpleacro5-07.jpg

I picked this up at the same time....
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j285/pickensw/frags/orangemonti.jpg

and today
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j285/pickensw/frags/orangemonti-1.jpg

Don't remember when I got this one.
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j285/pickensw/frags/slimer.jpg
see the ORA tri-color in the forground...I picked it up last week and there is a clearer picture here.
http://www.captivereefing.com/showthread.php?p=42969#post42969

I have 12 different SPS and I have never lost any yet...but I have lost some LPS and shroom's

Here is a purple rim Monti I also picked up last week. There were 5 pieces so 4 are on the sand bed until I get my frag tank up and running.
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j285/pickensw/frags/purplerimmonti-1.jpg

[slim]

My softies are not doing as well as I had hoped. Notice the toadstool, also the LTA in the above picture. It went to the side and bottom of the tank to get in less light.

[jojo22]

Can we see pics of the older coral as they apear now???

Also I doubt the nem moved due to too much ligh I have seen way too many out in the open under 250/400W halides I would guess it moved to an area with more sutable flow.

[slim]

look above

LTA...could be but there is almost no water movement where it is now. It was between a hammer and frogspawn...maybe it was getting stung by these 2...lol...they are in low flow areas

[jojo22]

Any before, like when you first got them so we can see a growth rate??

[slim]

the first 4 pictures are of the growth rate.

[jojo22]

How deep is your tank/what size is it?? Also where are those corals in relation to the light???

[slim]

read post 36 again....1 & 2 top, 3& 4 mid

I had to move all softies and LPS when I installed these lights because they didn't like all that light. So I thought I would try some sps and they have been great in this tank.
I also have a 10 with 80W and can't keep anything in but one type of shroom and a LTA.

[slim]

JoJo

Ever seen a tank lit by T5's in person?

[jojo22]

Looks like it is working well for you, but I still feel you are "the exception to the rule". I don't think a set up like this would work for most. I would also be willing to say that i don't think the SPS would fair well on the bottom part of the tank, as I said before VHO/T-5's have their place but I think you would get better growth with a MH. Since you listed a 54W bulb there is no way to make a fair comapison to a MH since they are at least 70W.

[slim]

Sound like you are pretty closed minded toward anything except MH.

[slim]

We are having a discussion just like this on another board. If you would like to look at it here is the link.

http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16854&PN=3

[slim]

Since you listed a 54W bulb there is no way to make a fair comapison to a MH since they are at least 70W.

I have 4 54W bulbs so I should need 3X70W MH for a 48" tank? What about supplement lighting?

[slim]

here is a early pic to go with #5 on post #38 Picture dated 2-26-07 but I think it is older than that.
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j285/pickensw/frags/slimer2-26-07.jpg

I don't have a early pic of this but you can see the encrusting on it. I picked it up on 5-18-07
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j285/pickensw/frags/tabletop6-25-07.jpg

[jojo22]

I have 4 54W bulbs so I should need 3X70W MH for a 48" tank? What about supplement lighting?


You actually would only need 2 each halide covers 2 square feet so only two would be needed. Watt for Watt MH puts out the most PAR. That is simple and I don't think you are disputing that. I am not close minded, you have VHO and it works for you. Thats great. What I am trying to figure out is that is seems like you are saying VHO are better than halides this is not true, MH get better par on less electric. I think T-5 and VHO work great for suplimental lighting. But the truth is that dollar for dollar MH is more effecient and produces more PAR per watt.

[slim]

I am not using VHO I am using T5's. Did you check out the link above? There is a guy using 5 T5's over a 90 and he has clams and SPS on his sand bed.

By the way what is the PAR for a 70W MH?

[slim]

We can't be the only 2 talking about this here??????

Let's hear some more opinions!

[cweber]

I have to take the side of halides here. Everything ive read points to halides having more light penetration watt for watt over the other choices.

A 90 gallon seems a bit tall to support sps and clams on the sand bed with only 5 t-5s. Just because they will live in that environment doesnt mean they are flourishing the way they should.

Mainly what ive learned so far about lighting, is that wpg doesnt matter so much as par, and halide has more than t-5,vho, and pc.

[slim]

Here is the link again....

http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16854&PN=3

[Sweetpea]

I'll jump in for just a sec...

I am running 4x24w T5's on an IceCap 660 over a 20 gallon tank. I have seen SPS corals not only survive but thrive and grow.

That being said, I have since moved them to a tank with MH/PC combo lighting and have seen an even more dramatic growth rate.

IME - T5's can sustain SPS well, but I have seen better growth with MH...

[iVgOnMaD]

I like the combination of the two MH & T5HO w/individual reflectors.

BTW, the light that best replicates the sun is MH, what could be better than that?

The sun at mid day in the tropics as I understand is measured at about 50,000+ lumen/sq ft, my 10,000k 400w MH is rated ~38,000 lumens/sq ft but probably puts out less.

T5HO cant match that, or you would need like 8+ 29w T5HO w/individual reflectors overdriven on a IceCap ballast. Which in combination would probably generate almost as much heat as my single 400w MH and use almost just as much electricity.

When people say T5 gives more PAR its because they are measuring things wrong...

Comparing a 14,000k MH (medium to low PAR) to a 6x 24" T5HO that has 3x 10,000k which give out a lot of PAR and 3x Actinics which give the blue color is unfair to the MH.

Obviously the T5 setup will have a higher PAR since it is a combination of spectrums but if you were to put a 6x 10,000k T5 setup vs a 400w 10,000k SE MH the T5 will lose big time.

Just my .10 cents

(not .02 cuz it was kinda long)

[Sweetpea]

Just an additional note-

I recently got some green, purple-rimmed monti frags that were questionable upon arrival (shipping fault, not sellers at all). The frags were almost devoid of all color, but I wanted to give them a chance. Sure enough, under the lighting in my 20g mentioned above, they have colored up and now have lovely purple rims as they should!