Filtration??

[dberrong]

I currently have two Millinium 5000 filters on my 90g tank. I'm about to add a protien skimmer. My question is if I keep the two hang on filters or is the Protein skimmer enough? When I look at the pix of most tank, I do not see the hang on filters that I have. Is that because they have a sump or protein skimmer?

[graphixx]

are you running a sump??? if so then if you get a skimmer that is rated for your tank and have some good live rock in there. you will not need the hang ons. if your not running a sump you could leave them on there.

[dberrong]

I'm not running a sump, but I don't like the hang on filters. I'm still reading up on sumps and trying to decide if that is something I want to add. Price vs. need. Any suggestion on what an optimal filtration system would be for a 90g tank?

[melev]

The reason you don't see that on most tanks is because they have a sump & a protein skimmer. The skimmer is in the sump. Many tanks today also have a refugium. Here's an article that should help you understand about how they work, and why.

http://www.melevsreef.com/what_sump.html

If you are keeping a reef tank, you don't need mechanical filtration. No pads, biowheels, bioballs, filter floss, sponges, etc. You don't need them as long as you have a well-planned setup. What I've been doing for years is called the Berlin-system. I have a big well-built protein skimmer (Euroreef is a very good brand), a DSB (Deep Sand Bed), a refugium full of macro algae, and a lot of LR (live rock). These are what filter my water around the clock and keep my tank looking great and my livestock happy.

From time to time, I'll siphon out any detritus that has collected in my sump. I clean out the skimmer's collection cup every couple of days. That's it. Water changes once a month, of course.

[dberrong]

Is there a min. requirement for sump size for a tank? I guess I'm asking what size sump would I need for my 90 gal. tank? Also, is the refugium part of the sump or a seperate system all together? So a reef tank doesn't need carbon?

[melev]

The bigger the better. If you have room to squeeze in a 4' sump & refugium, do it. The refugium area should be sized to be 10% of the display, or 9g in your case.

Yes, you can run carbon. I do for my mixed reef. I just pour 1.5 cups into a Phosban Reactor, and this is replaced weekly.

http://www.pets-warehouse.com/carbon.htm

[iVgOnMaD]

29 gal tank should do a nice job, that what I have :)

here are some pics to give you some ideas

29g Sump/Refugium FTS
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/ivgonmad/Aquariums/IMG_0095.jpg
Skimmer & Filter Sock Section
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/ivgonmad/Aquariums/IMG_0098.jpg
Return Pump Intake Section & Phosban Reactor/Refugium Pump
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/ivgonmad/Aquariums/IMG_0097.jpg
Refugium
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/ivgonmad/Aquariums/IMG_0096.jpg

HTH

[iVgOnMaD]

Return Pump
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/ivgonmad/Aquariums/Misc/CIMG0707.jpg
Return Manifold
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/ivgonmad/Aquariums/Misc/CIMG0708.jpg

[dberrong]

I think that would work for me and I can fit it under my show tank. All the plumbing is intimidating me right now. Where can I purchase a 29 gallon sump with all the traps all set up? Should I simply build my own since I'm fairly handy? Where did you get yours?

[melev]

iVgOnMaD - I really like how you plumbed that together, using unions to easily disconnect the pump for cleaning / maintenance. You also made the right decision using some spaflex (the black tubing) going to the pump to avoid vibration issues.

dberrong - you can do it yourself. Here's an example of what you can do with a glass 20g Long:
http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/sumps/glass/

[iVgOnMaD]

I think that would work for me and I can fit it under my show tank. All the plumbing is intimidating me right now. Where can I purchase a 29 gallon sump with all the traps all set up? Should I simply build my own since I'm fairly handy? Where did you get yours?

I made it myself, I had the glass shop drill the holes and and cut the baffles for the bubble trap and stuff :)

Plumbing is easier than you would imagine just make sure you use plenty of PVC glue, just wipe down the excess glue w/a towel. Unions and shut-off valves on everything that might ever need maintenance.

[iVgOnMaD]

iVgOnMaD - I really like how you plumbed that together, using unions to easily disconnect the pump for cleaning / maintenance. You also made the right decision using some spaflex (the black tubing) going to the pump to avoid vibration issues.


Thanks

The flex PVC doesnt kink w/suction pressure from the pump intake either, thats another reason I used it.

[dberrong]

iVgOnMaD - I really like how you plumbed that together, using unions to easily disconnect the pump for cleaning / maintenance. You also made the right decision using some spaflex (the black tubing) going to the pump to avoid vibration issues.

dberrong - you can do it yourself. Here's an example of what you can do with a glass 20g Long:
http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/sumps/glass/

I like that set up. I believe that I can do that. I don't plan on cutting the glass however. I think I should just have the return hose come through the top of the tank as well at the hose from the pump back to the tank. Any suggestions on making an overflow box??? I plan to put a protein skimmer and heater in the sump with a 10g. space for the refugium. Is there anything else that I need in the sump besides sand, algae, LR, and a pump? I have a 30g tank that I'll be checking the fit with today. I'm still very green with all of this, so thank you for your patience in answering my questions.

[iVgOnMaD]

Sounds like a good plan, I would suggest you buy they overflow box, I like the Marineland Tidepool Overflow box ;) it works great, if tha ts a possibility, mark has some nice designs in his website I believe

[dberrong]

Is there a max gph for the pump with an overflow box? Or does the water drain faster than the pump puts water back in? I'm probably overthinking this, but I can just see the pump putting more water in than water leaving and overflowing the tank. It's amazing how expensive such a little box can be. I've decided everything is $50 or more in this hobby. :)

[melev]

You can build your own if you have the tools:

http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/overflow.html
http://www.melevsreef.com/sump.html

The bulkhead in the overflow box dictates how quickly it can drain. 1" bulkheads can drain 600gph, but in my box I think 500gph is probably the maximum it can handle because there isn't a large body of water pressing it downward. Rather, it is shallow and thus drains at a lesser rate.

You want your return pump to be less powerful than the drain, that's for sure.

My 29g had a Mag 5 return pump, using 1" plumbing. At 5' (head pressure), I was probably pushing 300gph, which is plenty. It worked well for over 2 years before I took that system down.

[dberrong]

I'm not sure that in my parts it will be easy to find acylic. I may just bite the bullet and buy the overflow box. I'm pretty confident that I can build and plumb the sump. Is there a special brand of silicone I should use when installing the baffles in my glass sump?

[melev]

If you got to your LFS, or PetSmart / Petco, they sell aquarium safe silicone. This is a tiny project, and a $5-$7 tube will do the job.

I mean, sure, you could go to Home Depot and find a tube for $4 that might not have anti-mold toxins in it, but since you are already saving on the project by building it yourself, I don't see why you can't just buy the known safe stuff.

[iVgOnMaD]

the tidepool overflow box can be modded to handle up to 1200gph

[dberrong]

I think I'm not equiped with the knowledge. So it's time to see if I can transfer knowledge into a product. thanks for the help!

[dberrong]

Overflow box question. A lot of the boxes are simply two boxes. One in the tank, and one on the outside of the tank. A hose is then bent between the two as a siphon. If I left plenty of room in my sump for overflow, why not just run a siphon straight from PVC to the sump? Let the pipe sit about 1/2" in the water and hook over the tank and run straight to the sump? Please tell me what is wrong with my logic.

[dberrong]

Anyone know anything about pajama Cardinals? I got two for christmas and I don't know anything about them.

[dberrong]

I finally figured out the gallery. Please take a look and tell me what you think.

[melev]

Overflow box question. A lot of the boxes are simply two boxes. One in the tank, and one on the outside of the tank. A hose is then bent between the two as a siphon. If I left plenty of room in my sump for overflow, why not just run a siphon straight from PVC to the sump? Let the pipe sit about 1/2" in the water and hook over the tank and run straight to the sump? Please tell me what is wrong with my logic.

Because it will siphon your tank dry. It is not an option. If it doesn't siphon the tank, instead the siphon is broken while the return pump just keeps pushing up water.

Take a look at this picture to understand how it works:
http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/demo_install/overflow_box.jpg

And this one:
http://www.melevsreef.com/plumbing/refugium.gif

You should probably read this page carefully.
http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html

[dberrong]

OK. I think I get it. If the pump turns off, the outer box drains the water as the siphon sucks the water from the inner box. But since there is still some water in the hose and outer box, when the pump comes back on, the siphon is maintained and gravity starts pulling the water from one box to the other. Is this correct? The siphon in this design would never be broken even when the pump is off. Am I understanding that correctly?

[roadcrew]

when i was investigating getting an overflow for my tank, i didnt get the reason for the two boxes either. i understand your confusion dbrrong. not until i saw it in use did i understand. then its real simple. i think your catching on. i had the same thought process your having. just trust the design and you'll be modifing it soon enough. i know this was no help, just adding my 2.

[dberrong]

Thanks roadcrew. I tend to overthink things. I have a tendency of trying to come up with my own way of doing things and thus make them more complicated. I've found a couple of overflow boxes on Ebay for around $40. I think I'll purchase that today. I also have a 30g tank that was given to me because it was leaking. I found the bottom edge that was leaking and I siliconed it last night. I just checked it and....NO leaks! I'll let it sit over night to make sure I have the leak fixed. Next will be getting the glass cut for the baffles and chamber seperation. I'm going to try to take pix along the way so that I ya'll can give me advice and so that others might learn from what I'm doing.

[melev]

OK. I think I get it. If the pump turns off, the outer box drains the water as the siphon sucks the water from the inner box. But since there is still some water in the hose and outer box, when the pump comes back on, the siphon is maintained and gravity starts pulling the water from one box to the other. Is this correct? The siphon in this design would never be broken even when the pump is off. Am I understanding that correctly?

That's correct. The outer box has to have enough water to keep that tube submerged.

[dberrong]

I leave for a few hours and come back to a leaking tank. At least it is slower. I guess I'm not good at fixing, just good at slowing things down. LOL. I'll do some more operations on the tank tomorrow. I'm determined to fix this tank!

[dberrong]

Well, I've located the small leaks, stipped away the old silicon, and laid down a nice fresh new silicon layer. I'll filler up tomorrow and see what I have. I bought the overflow box from ebay and I should get that after christmas. There is just something about DIY that makes you feel fantastic!!

[roadcrew]

;) i never feel satified with what im doing till im frusterated and wet and had to re think things a couple times