Water Test Wacko

[ReeferRob]

Not Sure if this is an Emergency or not?

Okay just tested my stuff and Calcium is 500, KH is 8 and this is weird mag. 800. Is that possible? I hoping Im doing something wrong. Where did my math and science teachers go?

[Sir Patrick]

You have been dosing 2 part right?

Someone could probly tell you better, but from what I recall, when dosing when parameters are already out of whack, parameters can go very screwy.

I am thinking that adding the calc/alk has driven down the mag.

[speedstar]

Are you using 2 part? are you doing any carbon source dosing? (i assume not since you have a fuge)

[speedstar]

Find some Kent Tech-M or go buy some epsons salt and make your own additive. See RHF for recipe.

[speedstar]

Not an emergency just need to get things a bit better balanced.

[ReeferRob]

Cant I just dose my BRS mag? 19 oz to bring it up a 100 ppm per day?

[tazzy695]

did you double check the mg reading if it an accurate reading you need to start dosing enough to rais it by 100ppm per day till it gets to about1400

[ReeferRob]

yep tested it twice same results. going to dose a little now.

[schminksbro]

Stop dosing calcium and alk until you get your mag up. I am not a chemist but I know it is diffacult to get your alk and calcium to balance when you have such low magnesium.

[ReeferRob]

Stop dosing calcium and alk until you get your mag up. I am not a chemist but I know it is diffacult to get your alk and calcium to balance when you have such low magnesium.

Thats the thing Andy for about two week the Alk hasn't moved and I have not dosed a single drop of it.
I have been dosing Calcium as it drops daily????
Yesterday with out dosing anything for two days the calcium climbed???? Alk stayed the same and Mag was super low????

[Sir Patrick]

So- after adding the mag your calc increased?

Mag and calc are very similar (element wise)

I am sure, while adding mag to get your level up, you will see some weird tests in the process.

Get your mag up, then start dosing the same amount of alk/calk to keep your alk where you want it. Your calk should fall in line (balance wise) with your alk/mag levels.

After you do this, just keep an eye on your mag levels, and figure out routine dose to do the calc/alk dosing along with a mag dosing, before your mag gets low again.

After you get your mad levels up, then dose to keep your alk levels where you want them- things should balence out. Dont worry about what your calc levels are. They will not matter when dosing the 2 part equally, with a mag level that is right. All that matters is that you keep the mag from getting too low, and dose the apropriate amounts of alk (with equal amounts of calk aditives) to keep it where it needs to be. It will eventually get stable- and that is the key to 2 part dosing. Dose (equal 2 parts) to keep you alk up where you want it, and with mag being what it needs to be, calc will eventually stabilize too.

Dont worry about what the level of calc is during the dosing. Whatever your alk (along with mag) is, your calc should hold steady and never drop to an unacaptible level reletive to the alk/mag.


Kind of hard to explain typing, but hope it makes sence to you.

[Sir Patrick]

Just to add to make the above make more sence-

The reason, I beleive, your alk level doesnt move, is because it is not being used apropriatly, due to the mag being low, which throws off the balances of the whole thing in your tank.

I beleive once you get your mag up apropriatly, this will change. Looking forward to your result.

[ReeferRob]

Makes complete sence to me, thank you SIR. I very much appreciate the lengthy response.
I look forward to getting things balanced also.
Tested last night and dosed some mag. Will do again tonight and post results.

[ReeferRob]

I've noticed that in the past week of trying to raise my mag. a ton of my chaeto is dieing off or just melting? Oddly a frag of Bam Bams have sprouted a huge bundle of byropsis. Odd

[ReeferRob]

Okay, so I've been dosing about 19 oz. of mag every other day for I think a week now. It stays consistantly at 1250. My calcium and alkalinity can't be budged. Calcium is 710 and KH 8. Haven't dosed a thing in that department and haven't done a water change in two weeks or more. I am thinking of doing one tomorrow purely because theres some cyno thats driving me nuts.

Everything has been looking extremely good this week. I did add a little phyto yesterday night and have a little cyno here and there today. Other than that things have been going great. Just scratching my head here a little. One gallon of mag gone and only about 20 oz of calcium used.

Any thoughts?

[Sir Patrick]

I have some thoughts, and wont be able to post much till tomorow after this question is answered-

Your calc is @ 710???

I hope its a typo and its 410. Will make things much easier on your part.

While waiting, whats your mag, calc and alk reading on your fresh made salt water. You wil have to do several small water changes to keep your mag and alk stable while bringing your calc down to normal levels. Dosing somthing alc/kalc at this point could have some serious concequences.

If it is a typo, decide where you want your alk to be. Dose equal parts alc/calc of the 2 part to match your alk. Keep an eye on your mag and dose acordingly, and things should level out and stabalize.

Gotta do another double shift tomorow, but look forward to a responce tomorow night.

[ReeferRob]

I have double and trippled tested everything multiple times. As well as checked the Elos against API, and no not a typo. Will test fresh mix when I get home from work.

[ReeferRob]

Just tested a batch of 35 gallons I have had made for about 1 1/2 weeks. It tested a touch high with pH at 8.6. Calcium was at 510 and magnesium was 800. So some really odd numbers. I decided to hold off on the water change and did a 10 gallon syphon through a 100 micro sock and thats it.
Gonna test water on DT tonight, seems like my cyno is back with evengance (sp) today after work. Also noticing a little byropsis sprouting in two places.

Starting to get worried. Thought I had all this stuff behind me??

Just tested DT all perams. are great with exception of calcium which is now 570. Mag stable at 1250 for 5 nights now. Is my daily dose going to be 19 oz of mag, thats crazy?

[ReeferRob]

Bumping please anyone.....should I be worried or not?? Dump the make up water or its okay?

[BeakerBob]

Rob,
A couple questions:
Do you top off with kalk?
Fresh RODI
Do you test the water at least 24 - 48 hours after any dosing or a shorter interval?
I've been testing every 24 hours for 8 days straight, before that it was every 48.
What are you dosing homemade 2 part? or a brand name?BRS

Here is some information that may help and the reasons that I asked the questions:

1) Kalk.....topping off with Kalk. Kalk does NOT help if your Ca or Alk is out of whack. Kalk only maintains whatever the current balance of Ca/Alk that is in the tank. Many reefers think that using kalk will solve their imbalance problems, but it does not. Kalk is very useful in maintaining a balanced Ca/Alk tank.

Here is an example: You have a low KH but high Ca. Adding Kalk will raise both Ca & Alk, further compounding the inbalance. There is a relationship between the concentrations of Ca+ and Alk-. The higher the Ca (after a certain concentration), the lower the Alk. Conversely, the higher the Alk (depending on the concentration), the lower the Ca.

2) Testing intervals: You should test at least 24 - 48 hours after the last supplement dosing. Adding Ca, Mg, Alk, or anything else requires the tank to rebalance itself and stabilize. This rebalancing takes a while as chemical and biological reactions take place. The chemicals in a properly balanced tank "buffer" the system as a whole so that changes are incremental. If you overwhelm the buffering capacity of the system, the first action will be to attempt to rebalance itself until all the buffer is consumed, then the massive supplement overdose will suddenly overtake the system and cause a pH change, precipitation, or other effects that will harm the tank inhabitants.

3) Dosing: It is not unusual to have the tank go out of balance when you are dosing. Periodically, either the Ca or the Alk will get out of balance. Let's look at an example.

Calcium is high, Alk is low: a) stop dosing the Ca portion and continue to dose Alk for 4 - 6 days, then test. If still too low, continue the same dosing regime or increase the dose of Alk until it is at the proper level.

Magnesium: dosing magnesium impacts the system balance, but not in the way that many reefers think. It is a critical component of sae water and is required for calcification of corals. It takes a really high concentration of Mg to cause tank problems. It does not take anywhere close to this amount to help the tank system balance for calcification. Getting to about 1200-1400 ppm (optimum concentration) takes a lot of deliberate dosing. You should not see the Ca/Alk measurements being affected by this dosing unless you deliberately and massively overdose and even then, you may not notice any affects on corals, inverts, snails or fish until you hit about 2000ppm.

Now, let's talk a little about pH and the overall scheme of tank balance.

The normal sea water pH is about 8.0 - 8.3. Tanks in reefers homes can run routinely 7.8 to 8.5, (higher pH especially if adding kalk, lower pH if house is airtight and CO2 level is high). If your pH is about 8.6, that's a little high if you are not adding Kalk. This higher pH will cause abiotic precipitation of calcium carbonate. If this is the case, then stop using Kalk and continue using Ca/Alk dosing to lower the pH and maintain the Ca/Alk levels.

At times, usually in the winter, the tank pH will drop due to CO2 levels in a tight house. This is also the case where calcium reactors are used with CO2 gas to dissolve the media. If this is the case, then use Kalk or increase the pH levels.

Many reefers try to optimize the buffering system with supplements too much. If your parameters are within these values, leave the tank alone unless you are trying to do something very deliberate and know what you are doing! If one is higher, then slowly decrease the amount dosed, conversely, if one is lower, then slowly increase the dose of that specific supplement.
Calcium 380-450 ppm
Alkalinity 2.5-4 meq/L (7-11 dKH)
Magnesium 1250-1350 ppm

[BeakerBob]

Also, if you are testing your newly made up salt water, put in a powerhead and let it mix for at least 24 hours, preferably aerating at the same time. The parameters will change as the salt and other additives dissolve and interact as well as when the salt water aerates.

Do the testing only after it mixes, aerates & stabilizes, otherwise, you will get false test results.

[ReeferRob]

Also, if you are testing your newly made up salt water, put in a powerhead and let it mix for at least 24 hours, preferably aerating at the same time. The parameters will change as the salt and other additives dissolve and interact as well as when the salt water aerates.

Do the testing only after it mixes, aerates & stabilizes, otherwise, you will get false test results.

In the 55 gallon barrel I have a 100 watt stealth heater and a Seio11something. They are on at all times. When I do mix fresh I use a plastic paint mixer on a cordless drill and aggressively mix it.

Im thinking that the pump I have in there is not powerful enough and that I should be sure to mix it well before testing or using for water change.
Thanks Bob