Algae anyone?

[MizTanks]

It's taking over my tank. Little tufts of it popping up daily. I no longer know what kind it is, I don't care at this point. It's ruining my tank, ruining my attitude toward my tank. I mean ruining it to the point of feeling like giving it up. All my hard work, undone by some algae.
There's just sooooo many opinions out here! Do this do that, get this, get that. Are you doing this or that? I'm so frustrated that I am crying!!! So much hard work. I'm actually finding reasons to leave the house so I don't have to look at the tank. When I do look, I'm only seeing the freaking algae! Not the beautiful fishes I now have, not the beautiful zoa's I now have (except for the last batch) and not the fact that my peppermint shrimp molts at least twice a month. My porclin crab is thriving and growing, I'm getting coraline algae everywhere and not just the top of the heater anymore. One of my turbo snails has died. Found the empty shell and the door but nothing else. Where did it go, over night? I learned that adding a new piece of LR and some new sand to the tank would cause a small diatom bloom, hello! Why do some people say pick out the algae, and others say never put your hand in the tank? I sit here at this sight, looking at all the big beautiful tanks and compare! Yes I do compare mine to others. Mine never looks bright enough or colorful enough. I'm so frustrated! How do I get rid of the algae?????:mad::mad::mad:

[Sir Patrick]

Hang in there. We have all gone through the algea battle at least once in the time we have been in the hobbie. Just another negative aspect that needs to be overcome.

I here ya on all the different methods of overcoming algea. There are many for many different reasons.

Best advice I can offer is get to the bottom of the cause of the algea. There are many differnt causes, just need to figure it out.

Lets start here-

Did you use dry rock?
Is the rock you used bound up by nutrients?
Do you have PO4 in the tank? What levels?
How old is the tank?
What kind of sandbed?
How old are your light bulbs?
Are you using RO water? DI?


There is a different route to solve your algea issues asociated with all these questions, just have to figure out the underlying cause of the algea.

Hang in there- algea can be overcome! Been there (a couple times) and its no fun till its over...

[MizTanks]

No dried rock. LR from the LFS.
API test of PO4 reads 0, but I'm told those arnt alway accurate.
The tank will be 5 months on the 11th.
I started the tank with 20lbs of baged LS
Bulbs are as old as the tank 5months.
Yes I'm using RO/DI UV steralized Culligan Water system from Wal-Mart.
I have an 16oz bag of Chemipure Elite in 2nd chamber along with LR rubble, maybe I should switch it to chamber #1?

[Sir Patrick]

Bulbs are good, chemi pure elite is great stuff, no dry rock, Fresh sand, this all sounds good!

Tank is still young- Shouldnt be an issue, unless you started the tank with tap water/faulty ro water.

Is the culigan water you are using the self searve dispencer at the store? The one that you fill the jug yourself? Either way, mix up an adaquatly aged batch of new saltwater, and test the po4 of it and also test the TDS of the fresh water you are getting from the store, just to be sure. I got this stuff at meijer a few years ago, and it wasnt as great as it was said to be.

Your API test kit isnt terible at po4 readings, just not extreamly acurate. If its reading unreadable levels, I would figure you have some, but very low levels- unless you are running some additives/equipment to get 0 levels of po4.

Its a good idea to test your po4 in the tank, and in your newly made water change water both. Somtimes the po4 can be used up in your tank to give you a false low level in the water.

I have a feeling the algea is only growing on the rock (and possibly equipment) but not the sand and tank glass? If this is the case, the algea is probly getting nutrients from your rock. When buying new rock, its impossible to know what exactly you are getting. If this rock came from a poorly maintaned tank (possibly traded in for store credit) it could be bound up by nutrients- feeding algea growth)

There are 2 ways to help this-

The least likely method, since your tank is set up and running, is to "cook" the rock, by the book, to release bound up nutrients in your rock.

The second method is- keep up on your water changes, chemipure elite, and ro water/tank maintanance, and add a phos reactor. It wil slowly leach the po4 out of your rocks, slowly over time and help prevent the algea from getting worse. A phos reactor is a great peice of preventative equipment to have, and can be found cheap these days.

Other than a possibility of your store baught water not being as good as it could and the possibility of your live rock being saturated/bound by nutrients, I dont see any other causes. Looks like everything else you are doing is exactly what you should be.


Let me know what you think, and if you have any more questions/need more advice, let me know-

[MizTanks]

I think your right on! It is only on the LR and only the LR I got from the LFS. I'm not at all familiar with a phos reactor. Is there such a one for a tank my size? The water I get is exactly as you described. Only I get it from Wal-Mart. But yes, I did start the tank with tap, back when I didn't know any better. I've been using ro/di for more then 3 months now.
I want to thank you for your explaination! Percise and to the point, specially for this newb to understand. I feel a little hope coming on!!! Thank you again!

[Sir Patrick]

Any time, always glad to help.

A phos reactor is a very simple peice of equipment. Just has a name that makes you think it should have blinking lights and steam involved. Whenever I want to sound smart at work when talking to non reefers, I bring up phos reactors and granular feric oxide.

There are many brands out there. Check out the 2 little fishies reactor, and you will understand how little there is to them.

They can be used on any size tank, just smaller tanks will need to be filled with less po4 media than a larger tank.

Good luck with the algea, and test your store baught water, just in case.

[MizTanks]

As I have the Oceanic Biocube, I don't see how I would be able to use that reactor. My tank is an all in one. Anyone know how I may be able to make one for this tank?

[MizTanks]

Ok peps, still having algae issues here! Actually it's showing up more en more.
Here's what I've done since I started this post.

I've removed the LR rubble from chamber #2 and 2 days ago added a small micron bag of Kent Phosphate Sponge.

Chamber #1 has filter pad and a small bag of carbon.

Now I'm doing 2x weekly WC at 1g per.

I'm wondering if it is the water I'm using. Maybe it's time to buy a new container? I've heard that these plastic containers can leach TDS, is this correct?

I can't put any sort of live stock into the tank, it's maxed now. I've got a couple of Star snails that are doing nothing and I mean nothing. They barely move :rolleyes:

It's no longer Bryopsis, no fronds. Pulling is off is almost impossible as it's very slimy and deep rooted. I'm beginning to think I may need to go chemical....

[whitetiger61]

Miz
I wouldnt go chemical yet.I would try getting your water somewhere else.. As Patrick says i thinks it one of 2 things.. Your water or your live rock.. Excessive nutrients in your live rock and algae will eat it up..I had this problem a couple months ago and its very fustrating.. your right its hard to pick off the rock..i was trying o use long tweezers but couldnt get ahold of it.the i found out if i uses my fingers..grabbed a clump of it and twisted a little..it came off the rock..my rock is still a little green where it was but the coraline is starting to take over.. try not to get to fustrated and time will show you your hard work hasnt been invane..

Rick

[Rabidgoose]

As Rick said I wouldn't do chems yet either.(oooh..flashback:roll_eyes:) Problem solving is a big part of the hobby IMO. That said I have a couple questions if you don't mind....

Do you have a skimmer?
You say your maxed out on livestock...what do you have in there?
Have you tested your nitrates? (lazy snails)
What is your feeding regimen?

Try not to get discouraged. This can be fixed, it's all about import/export

[MizTanks]

Water parameters are great! I'm unable to put any algae eating fish in the tank, but today I did go pick up a couple of black turbo snails and 1 astrea snail. Instead of refilling the 5g (been using it for months) with water from walmart I bought 2 new 1g jugs (same water different containers) so the water wont be sitting long in the jugs. I was able to pull some of the algae free, not much but it's a start. Thanks guys for your encouragement, means a lot to me.

I feed pellets once daily and frozen rinsed every other day.

[whitetiger61]

as you pick the algae where it was picked the outside starts to die off a little and that makes it easier to pick off the rock..you have a very nice lil 8 gal going on..you will get ahold of this algae problem..keep up the good work. again keep monitoring your phosphates..they can buld up in a hurry..

Rick

[tazzy695]

also do you have any macro algae growning in one of the back chambers

one more thing would be to slow down feedings to only once or twice a week

[Sir Patrick]

Little advice to help get your clean up crew to help with the algea-

Do your best to pick at it and keep it short. Once it gets too long, the crew will be less likely to eat at it.

Starting to sound like the algea is getting nutrients from your rock. Keep up with what you are doing with the water changes, and po4 reducers, and let it run its course. By maintaining your parameters and tank husbandry this way, this will only last a while and will eventually run its course and be done.

Done any tests on your water source yet?? This will be key for the sucess of letting it run it course.

I agree with Tazzy- reduce feeding for a little while, till things are where they need to be. I also saw that your phos readings are very low (if not 0). Alot of times, in a tank with algea, you will get this reading- even when you have heigher levels. It is being used by the algea, and not showing up on your test, sometimes, in certain situations.

Hope this info helps-

[MizTanks]

I've been a pickin~and the snails have started on the back~man it looks good~your right Sir, it is mainly on the LR. I'm feeding only pellets and only what I see the gobys eating~PJ cardinal wont touch em so I gotta feed her frozen but I'm rinsing it off real good and then only feed what she'll eat. Ya know I just really hate putting my hand in my tank.....weird???

[whitetiger61]

lol..not weird..i like putting my hands in the water..my clowns use to host my frog spawn until i got the nem..then they abondanded the frog spawn.so every once in awhile i stick my hand in there and give the frog spawn a little tickle with my fingers.. it sems to stay happier that way..and grows..

Rick

[tazzy695]

here is a bump so you can find this again miz tanks

[MizTanks]

I just read an article about riding my tank of HA. It suggested that I remove my LR and clean it. I understand the concept and it makes sense. Specially with such a small tank, with limited water flow.
Here's my concern, what effect would this have on my zoa polyps living on the LR. Since siphoning would be the better way to go but I can't get a strong enough suction to do the amount of cleaning I'd need to do without draining the tank. This is 1 downfall of having a small tank. Any suggestions?

[tazzy695]

well the zoas would be fine out of the water for a little while I would do this when you are already planning a water change and use your water you remove from the tank for wc to rinse any pieces of algae off the rock

also have you been able to get your mg tested yet if it happens to be bryopsys then that is one of the only ways to truly kill it

[Sir Patrick]

When you say clean, do you mean remove the rock, scrub all the algea of, then replace it?

[MizTanks]

Haven't been able to test for mag, but am still dosing with Kent Mg. It's def not bryopsis~no fronds~it's HA for sure~I think.

No the article I read said to simply take it out and rinse the LR well. I know not to scrub the rock, no matter how bad I'd love to. Anything to get the algae off the freaking rock.

I wish there was actually a way I could *vacuum* the LR. But it's hard using anything with a strong enough suction, giving me enough time to do a good job~without draining my entire tank.

[Sir Patrick]

As tazzy stated, your zoas will be fine as long as you are using saltwater for the rinse.

Why not scrub the rock?? I have used a soft bristle tooth brush in the past with no issues. Good scrub, then a saltwater rinse and your good to go. This process will shorten the algea to a point for your clean up crew to better keep up with. I have even gently scrubbed over closed polyps and had them turn out fine.

Other than that, keep up your tank husbandry and you will be good.

[Sir Patrick]

Done any tests on your water source yet??

[MizTanks]

I've tested it for phos using API test kit~cant test for TDS dont have one~what else should I test it for?

[tazzy695]

look at your local walmart in the automotive rv section by the water filters they have a "water purity test meter" this is a tds meter at my local store it is $11

just as a way to get one if not you can get them online fairly easily

[MizTanks]

I know ya'll have got to be pretty sick of my tank issues~I know I am for sure!

This algae issue is truly getting to me~at one point I thought it was beginning to recede~NOT~it is now showing up along the front of the tank on the sand bed~on the zoa plugs~it's even on the dang hermit crab and a star snail!

I've added nothing new~no longer dosing with anything~2x weekly wc~picking all the time~I've read so much about finding the source~I've listened to and have done all that everyone here has suggested~I no longer know what to do.

[whitetiger61]

just keep at it..you will eventually get it under control..just curious..why did you stop dosing mag..that seemed to be helping..

Rick

[tazzy695]

Start dosing mg even though you don't see anything right away it is good for everything but bryopsys and beeing as it is growing worse again I would have to guess it might be bry or your snails and what not would eat it

Even if you can't test mg it won't hurt anything to keep dosing when I had my bryopsys battle I had it well over 2k test kit wouldn't go any higher to get accurate measurments everything but the bry was looking great and seemed to enjoy the exra mg

One more thing did you ever cut back on feeding or add some macro algae to the system

[MizTanks]

I stopped because I am under the impression that it works only on Bryopsis~What I was seeing most of while using Mag was an increase in my coraline~then again I could be mistaken~could be the tank has aged enough for it to start taking off~and I don't have a test kit for it~I fear overdosing my tank~also would scrubbing the LR not cause die off~which in turn would cause a diatom bloom?

I'm sorry for posting my woe's~I'm trying to tune it down a bit~my life is in an uproar at the moment and I'm focusing on my tank~instead of the other crap :)

[whitetiger61]

Jamie

Coraline is a good thing..a very good thing..it doesnt matter how it gets there it is still good..i still dont have my test kit either i would dose mg again..you cant overdose your tank..

Rick..

[tazzy695]

just to clarify mg is one of the only things that you cant over dose as long as you dont increase it too fast

also if I had a choice between diatoms and bryopsys or hair algae I would chose diatoms every time or even cyano much easier to get rid of

diatoms are realy only a new tank issue as the diatoms feed or silicates that leach out of the glass and other things in the rock but soon go away on their own

cyano is a bacteria can be ugly but is also easy to treat and get rid of once the extra nutrients get fixed or even a light dose of meds to the tnak

[MizTanks]

I'm a listening to you guys~I'll start with the mag tonight at 4ml daily for 4days then increase it to 6ml daily~I'm also gonna pick up a new florescent tomorrow~do you replace the atenic at the same time? Hope not cause I can only aford one at the moment.

[tazzy695]

Typicaly you replace all bulbs at the same time that way you know the life on all is the same

[whitetiger61]

i would do the daylight first if you cant afford both..\

Rick

[MizTanks]

I'll be able to replace the atenic in a couple of weeks~so the difference wont be a big one. Thanks guys!

[MizTanks]

Today I went out an bought a new florescent/Mexican Turbo and a small bunch of Cheato. I found a really nice article that explained how the algae begins. Part of which I really didn't get because it was talking about ph changes in certain areas of your tank

Basically I need to keep my LR cleaner~the only way I can do this is via a turkey- baster~gently blowing detritus off~unfortunately nobody makes a circulation pump small enough for my tank~mostly in the cracks and crevices~which upon closer inspection is where the algae is mostly appearing.

It also mentioned the removal of the LR and giving it a good washing off~using 2 buckets of premixed salt water~My tank being small makes this easier to do~however my concern is to my corals~how would this affect them?

[tazzy695]

as long as you are using sw to wash the rocks your corals will be fine

[Sir Patrick]

I agree with tazzy. Done it many times. I often use a soft bristled toothbrush to scrub with.

[Sir Patrick]

The cheato is a good idea. I also keep a ball of it in my tank. Can only help in trying to outcompete the algea issue you have going. You gonna put it somwhere in your tank, or in a back compartment with a small light? I keep mine in the tank. Only drawback is small peices getting stuck in the powerhead inlets.

[Sir Patrick]

How old were your old pc lights? If they were losing spectrum, they could have somthing to do with your algea issue.

[MizTanks]

almost 7months~I could only get the florescent today~atenic couple of weeks. I've got the cheato up against the back~kind of tucked between the wall and LR.

[MizTanks]

Well my discouragement is again at hand~having moved I was able to use a small very soft tooth brush and rid my LR of as much algae as I could~which was a lot!!~however that was almost a week ago and the algae is growing back~what the heck can I do? None of my snails are touching it~I'm still doing my 2x weekly WC's~using chemipure elite~a bag of carbon and have even added a small bag of Kents phosphate sponge~I hate the way it's making my little tank look!!!

[Sir Patrick]

Best advice I can give is to be pateint, keep up the good work and wait it out. The nutrients in the rock will be used up sooner than later with the tank husbandry you are maintaining. After its over- it will really be over and you wont have to deal with the ugliness again.

[MizTanks]

Thanks Chris~just worried about disturbing everything with all my picking and soft scrubbing of the LR~also wondering if I should be doing *something* with my filter system?

[Sir Patrick]

Not sure if I understand *somthing* with your filtration?

[MizTanks]

I'm running no floss of any type~just a small bag of carbon~small bag of Kents phosphate sponge~just used to using some type of filter media is all~when I have in this tank~within a week it was almost black!

[Sir Patrick]

I see what ya mean now! I know how you feel too. I went through the same filter withdrawls when I found that you dont need mechanical filtration in a live rock system.

You could add a small square of filter media (floss or pad) and treat it like others do filter socks. Replace every day or 2. It will help for sure, especially on a skimmerless system, plus, it might help ya feel better about not having mechanical filtration at the same time.

[MizTanks]

Feel better~that's what I'm talking about~I need to feel better about my tank!!!

[The Rugger]

Hey Sir Patrick,
You mentioned Dry Rock as being a potential issue early in this thread... What were you concerns? PO4 or something else?
Thanks,

[Sir Patrick]

Dry rock has a tendancy to grow some really nasty algea. Lotts of death and decay deep inside, and somtimes on the surface, that feeds the algea. Most dry rock looks and smells pretty clean...but isnt always the case.

I do beleive that there are some steps to lessen this affect though. I heard somthing about a vinager/water bath can nutrilize alot of the bound organics in dry rock...worth lookin into if you plan on using it!

[The Rugger]

I see, makes since. I put some dry rock in my sump to bring it to life for future use. Hardly any light gets to it. I never even thought about it potentially carrying anything in... Silly of me.