Water Source Question!

[MizTanks]

As you all know I've been battling algae~haven't been able to quit figure out the source of this plague~as it's growing only on my LR that seems to be the main source~However my water source has come into question~since I can't test it for TDS~have tested it for phosphates/nitrates/nitrites/ammonia all readings are 0.

I know using Tap water is a big no no but I'm desperate here~If I use Amqual+ as a detoxifier~make my replacement water 1-2 days in advance using a power head all the while~what are the chances that this process will make things worse? I have no other water sources available to me. So it's either chemically treated tap or walmart culligan.

[Rabidgoose]

I would stick with the wal mart water. I have always been an advocate of aging my salt water especially with RC.

[jojo22]

DO NOT USE WALMART WATER!!!!!!!

Let me find my old post but Wally world water KILLED my ENTIRE tank.

[MizTanks]

OK!!!!!! But what the heck can I use? In no way can I afford an RO/DI unit. I need to do a WC today~tomorrow at the latest.

[jimsflies]

What are you using now?

[Rabidgoose]

It's city water coming in to wal-mart maintained by culligan. At least that's how it is where I am. That said I've never used it, we had a similar setup at our grocery store with culligan.


DO NOT USE WALMART WATER!!!!!!!

Let me find my old post but Wally world water KILLED my ENTIRE tank.

[jojo22]

http://www.captivereefs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3811&highlight=walmart

Here she is, why you should NEVER use walmart water

[jojo22]

Jamie, a cheap RO unit can be gotten on e-bay for under $100. It would be your best bet.

If not possibly you could get a LFS to sell you some RO water.

[Rabidgoose]

Wow JoJo that's bad, Sounds like you got some restitution though. As you've said I think an RO/DI is a very good investment. If that is not in the budget I would definitely contact Culligan and find out there maintaince schedule for the water outlet you use.

[Tom@HaslettMI]

I have a couple of thoughts...

1) There should be other stores in your area that sell RO water. Check grocery stores. Specifically, I'm thinking of the Marquette Food Co-op.

2) As for the Wal-Mart water (and most other store with similar RO machines) they are maintained by a contracted company and are required by law to maintain and test the water machines monthly. The test results should be posted in plain sight on the machine with the test date. I'm pretty sure TDS is the main test performed.

3) Your tap water may also be fine. When I lived in the UP (almost 10 years ago) I used well water and City of Houghton water (at different times) and had little to no trouble with algae (other than coralline which has never thrived the same with RO water). The water from UP aquifers is usually low in PO4 and high alkalinity (+ other trace elements). However, there are risks of heavy metals and other nasties in tap water. Your municipality is required to test tap water and that information should be publicly available.

HTH,
Tom

[jojo22]

Rabid, the only reason I got restitution is because there was no phone number on the machine. Which is required by law. I also had to sign a release saying they where not responsible for any damage from future use of their water, DUH I have not used it since.

[whitetiger61]

I have in emergiencies use water from our well.. i tested it for ammonia , nitrate, nitrite, ph, and po4..beforew i mixed it up..my reading were basically the same as the ro water i get from the lfs except ph was .2 point lower then lfs water..i still use ro water though..

Rick

[Rabidgoose]

Please do consider writing up a article on your experience and precautions that need to be taken for buying water. IMO it would make an excellent sticky for everyone to refer to.


Rabid, the only reason I got restitution is because there was no phone number on the machine. Which is required by law. I also had to sign a release saying they where not responsible for any damage from future use of their water, DUH I have not used it since.

[MizTanks]

I have called the # on the machine (happy cell phone usage while filling up) and inquired if there were any additives and how often the filters were changed. I was told that the filters are changed once monthly (if I remember correctly) and all pertinent info is posted along with dates filters were changed. It's a 3 stage filter process along with the U.V. sterilizer as water runs through it.
As for MQT water, I have heard that it is some of the best. We get yearly reports via the mail on the filtration process. I threw mine out. But I'm sure I can pick one up any time.
Who was it that told me last night that I could pick up a TDS meter from the auto dept in walmart?

[jojo22]

I would say that thread should serve the purpose, I can sticky it so everyone can see why testing source water is important if there are enough people who think it would be a good idea

[Fishgeek88]

Do you have any LFS close by? Most provide ro water either for free or very inexpensively. If an 8 gallon tank is all you have seems like over kill to get an ro unit just for that. Maybe another hobbyist close by can give you some of their ro water?

[jimsflies]

You should check to verify whether Marquette adds phosphate to their water to comply with the safe drinking water act (it's an additive that protects pipes from corrosion to minimize lead/copper in the water.)

You may be better off purchasing your own RO/DI unit if you don't have an alternative that you feel comfortable with.

Phosphate is ubiquitous....it is nearly in everything. I don't know what is in amqual, but I would be hesitant to use it unless I had no other option.

Bear in mind that you simply may be overfeeding/over-stocking your tank. It doesn't take much to cause a problem in a small 8 gallon tank especially considering you aren't running a skimmer (correct?). How many fish do you have again? BTW- Are we talking about bryopis or other algae?

[MizTanks]

I'm sure it's HA and not bryopsis. Pic shows small clump. These clumps are scattered through out the entire tank.

I have 3 fish all under 2", 2 shrimp, 3 crabs, 4 nassarius, 2 turbo, 1 other snail and lots of soft corals+Favia.

I do 2x weekly WC at 1g per/gonna raise that to 2g, 1g doesn't seem to be enough of a change. I feed once a day, small amounts watching that it gets eaten with water flow off, so I can better spot feed.

I does 2ml of Kents A&B daily
6ml of Kent Mag daily
as of this last week I started dosing with:
Stronium&Molybelenum 1ml per 10g every 4 days
Tech i (iodine) 1ml 1x weekly
Coral Accel 1ml 1x weekly

I'm sure my filtration system could use help as right now I have in chamber #1 some fiber filter media and a small bag of carbon.
Chamber #2 has a small bag of Kents phosphate sponge media
Chamber #3 pump with a small piece of filter media

Nitrates/Nitrites/Ammonia/Phos readings are all .0

It appears that the only way I can keep my cal levels up is if I'm dosing mag at 8ml daily. I dropped it down to six on Monday and today my cal levels are reading at 400 again, my Kh is 10 and I gotta find my ph bottle, lol.

[jojo22]

OHHH ditch the floss media, swap it out for LR rubble pieces. That will help a lot, bio balls and floss type filters are nitrate FACTORIES!!!

[jimsflies]

I agree with Joe.

What test kits are you using? Many kits are not that good. I believe the saliferts are the ones the LFS uses when I take my water in for testing. For what it's worth, I've only had a <5 ppm nitrate once. I typically run in the 10-20 ppm range. I have 7 fish in 60 gallons of water, none of which exceed 2.5-inches. I feed sparingly and run a skimmer.

How often are you spot feeding and what are you feeding?

[MizTanks]

Man, I just took out the rubble cause I was told to do so. Now it's been sitting a bucket, dry for 2 weeks! I don't want to keep having to take it out and rinse it off. I add new pads 2x weekly, I add new phos sponge media 2x weekly 1 wc 2x weekly

This is stressing me out to tears~I simply cant afford this hobby~I've been fighting every ones opinions about small tanks~I can't get what's needed or what's best~what is there left to do? Everythings growing and healthy. The only issues is HA on the LR.

I use API master Test Kit and API kh and cal and phos. I've never had a nitrate/nitrite/ammonia reading. I'm not using floss as in the pillow stuffing, I'm using fiber type pads.

[jimsflies]

Leave the rubble out, take the floss out...and the bioballs. All of them are bad because the trap detritus and critters have no access to eat the accumulated detritus.

[MizTanks]

Man, I just took out the rubble cause I was told to do so. Now it's been sitting a bucket, dry for 2 weeks! I don't want to keep having to take it out and rinse it off. I add new pads 2x weekly, I add new phos sponge media 2x weekly 1 wc 2x weekly

This is stressing me out to tears~I simply cant afford this hobby~I've been fighting every ones opinions about small tanks~I can't get what's needed or what's best~what is there left to do? Everythings growing and healthy. The only issues is HA on the LR.

I use API master Test Kit and API kh and cal and phos. I've never had a nitrate/nitrite/ammonia reading. I'm not using floss as in the pillow stuffing, I'm using fiber type pads.

I will gladly return the Pj cardinal. I have no bioballs/rubble.

[jimsflies]

Don't get too discouraged. We are happy to help you be successful. No one ever said a reef tank is easy, especially one that is 8 gallons with limited filtration. :)

The fact that your live stock is happy/healthy is a testament that you are doing most things right.

As I said in the chat box, nothing good ever happens fast in a reef tank. To get this under control I would do what you are doing, research, research, research, then formulate your own plan and stick with it long enough to figure out if it helps or not.

[Sir Patrick]

As jim said, leave the floss, rubble and bio balls out. Your live rock will do what these were in place to do.

Sounds like your source water is good. Just keep testing it before adding it to your tank, so you dont have a catastrophy like jojo had (thx for the info jojo, will help many I am sure), until you manage to get an ro filter of your own- no hurry, do it as you can. I went for years without one, but also went for years battling algea.

Continue your water changes, and keep up on changing out the carbon/phos media. This should lead the hair algea to run its course and disapear. Might take a little time, but time well worth it.

[jojo22]

Changing all the media that often is also causing you issues, just when your bacteria starts to build up you throw it all away, never really has a chance to do it's job.

I would suggest you look into an upgrade and do a lot of planning and research before doing it. You have a lot of love for the hobby, which shows, but the tank size you have chosen is not making it as enjoyable as it could be for you. Keep your current tank as it is and just start buying things one at a time as you can afford them. I think you would be thrilled with a 20L, and after you get the equipment it honestly will not cost much more than what you pay now for upkeep. Plus you could then do a sump, which increases your water volume, so you could stock a little heavier, as we all like to do.

[jimsflies]

I wouldn't say you have to take back your cardinal fish. But I wouldn't add any more until you can get on top of the issues. You can likely feed a lot less and increase water changes...using a good source for water.

Just to complicate this a little more...Did you know that some plastic containers have been found to leach phosphates?

[jimsflies]

I agree 100% with Joe.

I bet you could put together a 20L real cheap. I even have a small hang on skimmer you can have...might need a pump. With the nano contest coming up...you could enter.

[Tom@HaslettMI]

If that's the extent of the HA I wouldn't stress too much. Some algae is unavoidable. In fact, I strongly believe that some algae is good for the tank. If it is getting out of hand then you need to take action. With that amount of HA if you're worried about it I suggest manual removal during water changes.

Other suggestions:

Get rid of the filter pads. You'll save money and be removing a nutrient source.
With the frequency and % water changes you're doing you probably don't need to dose all the different additives. Ca, alk, and Mg are probably enough.

[jojo22]

I agree 100% with Joe.

I bet you could put together a 20L real cheap. I even have a small hang on skimmer you can have...might need a pump. With the nano contest coming up...you could enter.


YEP, Petco usually has a buck a gallon sale after black friday, 40 for 2 20L tanks, sump and display, ad an overflow box, pump and skimmer and you are in there with 40g to play with.

[MizTanks]

That pic was of just 1 clump of many! You guys are awesome! Patient~caring and so very kind~I thank you all for the *pick me up off the floor support* Now where's the Miller Lite!!!

As for the upgrade, I'd love too! But alas Jacks Dr bills are really starting to flow. He's coming home on Dec 22nd praise God!!! Maybe next year I can enter the contest, I'll def be trying to save up for it. Only I just may go with a 40g, woot woot!!!

Thanks again Jim, jojo, and Sir for sticking with me today.

[MizTanks]

Leave the rubble out, take the floss out...and the bioballs. All of them are bad because the trap detritus and critters have no access to eat the accumulated detritus.


What do I use for filtration then?

[Rabidgoose]

Your LR....


What do I use for filtration then?

[jojo22]

Miz, if you watch this forum and others you will find just about everything you need at a budget rate. First thing is to decide what size tank you are going to buy and what size sump. Then keep your eyes peeled. Reefers are ALWAYS selling off old gear to get more stuff, I would bet you could set up a 20L with a 20L sump for under $250 not including the tanks. Retro fit your lighting, used skimmer and pump, used lighting if you find it. It may take a year to gather it all, but keep your eyes peeled and only buy the deals.

[tazzy695]

filtration in a reef tank consists of 2 or 3 things

#1 live rock
#2 flow
#3 skimmer (not always required)

as for a water source you can always use distilled water from walmart or any other grocery store just make sure you aerate it this would be actually more pure then ro/di as it is made by collecting the steam after boiling

[jojo22]

Just watch, I have seen distilled water that now has added minerals for flavor, make sure whats in it.

[tazzy695]

distilled should never have anything added to it

now they have spring and drinking water that may have minerals added back to it

[MizTanks]

Found this little bit of info during my research.

http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/nitratecontrol/a/aalongtermnitratereeduction.htm


http://www.ionmicrowater.com/distilledwater.htm

[tazzy695]

ok there is a lot of miss information in that article for one we want our nitrates undetectable if possible this is done through our water changes and natural bio filtration and nutrient export IE macro algae and skimmers

basically that article says nitrate of 10 to 50 is ok well maby for a fish only system

also they basically make a dsb filter with the carbon and bacteria but in reality this bacteria will naturally grow in the system as it matures and carbon dose not remove nitrates at all it is just the bacteria eating it

this is why you hear of people dosing vodka as it feeds the bacteria in the system and causes it to grow to population sizes that wouldn't otherwise appear in a tank

the biggest thing is nutrient export and that means some means of removing the ammonia phos or other things that the nuisance algae feed on either by skimming the water and removing the crap before it decomposes or by macro algae that is kept out of site of the dt that will out compete the nuisance algae for its food hence starving out the nuisance algae most common of which is hair algae

[MizTanks]

I wrote/spoke with Culligan. Here's their reply:

Good afternoon Jamie,
Thank you for contacting us!
Here is the information you’ve requested!
~Sediment Filters: Reduces particles such as dirt, rust, algae and oxidized iron.
~Activated Carbon Filters: Reduces chlorine taste and odors. Also reduces earthy, moldy, fishy tastes and odors.
~Reverse Osmosis: Reduces dissolved solids and microscopic impurities by forxing water through an ultra fine membrane.
~Ultra Violet Light: Redices microbiological contacmints (the main uv light is inside of the cabinet).
Also, we do not recommend our water to be used in aquariums as we reduce the chlorine, ammonia and other chemicals which could be harmful to fish. We advice you to test the water as well as the PH level before adding water to your fish tank.

she also stated this reduction is only 10%. So I stop using their water, what the heck water do I use? It's gonna have to be tap! I cannot afford an RO/DI unit, that's it!!
I can use Amquel+ with removes nitrates/nitrites/chlorine and chloramines. I will added Kents Phosphate Sponge and Chemipure Elite. Remove filter media/carbon. There is no cheato at the LFS, but they do have Halmedia and Culpura (ya'll know what I mean) would adding any one of those two help?

[jimsflies]

Culigan?? Is that who you have been getting your water from?

[MizTanks]

Yes~culligen! They said not to use it for my tank~grrrrrrr

[jimsflies]

Jamie - Don't copy and paste directly out of word...if that is what you are doing and having problems with posting. MS Word adds some code that is causing issues with posting here on CR. If you can post into windows text editor first save, then copy paste here.

[MizTanks]

The letter is on page 4~bottom of the thread.

[jimsflies]

Is culligen the company running the water you were getting from walmart? Just not understanding how we went from walmart water to culligen water? What have you been using?

[jimsflies]

Are you on city water in marquette or private well?

[MizTanks]

It is a culligen system located at Wal-mart~yes I'm on city water.

[jimsflies]

It's truly hard to say whether the culligan/wallmart water is suitable for a reeftank without testing it.

You mentioned a couple times that you have fresh water tanks. Are you using the walmart water for those?

[jimsflies]

Did you feed your tank yet today?

[MizTanks]

No I didn't fill it yet~I've been using tap for all my FW~never an algae issue and my 75g is sitting directly in front of an eastern window. I actually started out using tap for my sw~only algae I got were diatoms which went away after awhile.

[jimsflies]

Feed it or fill it?

[MizTanks]

I haven't dosed nor have I feed the fish yet today.

[jojo22]

Does your LFS do water tests??

[MizTanks]

Only using the same test kit I'm using~API~I use a python to do WC on all my FW~take the water out with it and replace the water right back in straight from the tap~I've had no readings what-so-ever on any of my FW

[jojo22]

Can you test your tap water with every test you have and give us the results?

[MizTanks]

Will do it right now!

[jimsflies]

Here is a link to the Marquette water quality report:
http://www.mqtcty.org/city_website/Water/HTML/2008_water_quality_report.htm

It doesn't appear they add phophate directly to comply with the lead and copper rule. I will verify that if I can tomorrow (I used to work in the drinking water program with the state of Michigan, so I have a few contacts that can let us know).

But you do have fluoride and chlorine to deal with. Amqual or simply letting your water sit in an open bucket for a few days will take care of chlorine. Aeration might help make it quicker as well. I'm not sure which products off the top of my head will remove the fluoride. I think a carbon filter will take it out...also will help with the chlorine for that matter.

I don't put any stock in hobby test kits for phosphate. I only put a little stock in the test kits for other parameters. As you mentioned your test kits were showing nothing with your existing tank water, yet you have an algae problem. Those two things are contradictory.

[jojo22]

I must disagree with your last statement Jim.

If the algae is consuming the waste as fast as it is made she could have a false 0 reading.

[jimsflies]

Yeah...if algae is present means she has phosphates, even if test kit says zero. Unless she is farming algae, it's not good.

Phosphate test kits are notoriously junk...especially at the low end of the range which is where most reef tanks are. You will get a zero reading when in fact it is 0.1 ppm which is enough to cause an algae problem.

[MizTanks]

Ok here are my reading using API Master Kit for FW~straight from the tap~

Ammonia=.0
Nitrites=.0
Nitrates=-.05
Phos=.0
Ph=using low end reading=+7.5~using high end reading+8.4
I do not have a FW test kit for kh nor Cal. However I am sure our water is fairly soft and I'm also sure there is some level of cal. I've never had a reading of phos so I don't trust these kits for that purpose. No, I'm not farming algae (whatever that means) Is fluoride bad for my tank?

Thanks for the link Jim~according to my interpretations~ our city water is actually pretty good~only drawback I see being the fluoride~which has yet to harm any or my FW fishes~don't know anything about the effects on SW.

[tazzy695]

I thought the kh test for fw was the same as sw

floride can kill your tank same as clorine

go down to walmart or other store and get yourself a couple of gal of distilled water and use that to mix with salt

[MizTanks]

Distilled water is said to absorb carbon monoxide from the air, making the water acidic. The FDA recommends that we don't drink it for long periods of time, it can actually absorb the minerals from our bodies, causing healthy issues. So no, distilled for me is out.

[ReeferRob]

I know this is throwing a wrench into the mix but until my most latest tank build I only used tap water and never had nearly as much trouble with algae as I do now, or should I say did.
Every situation is different, every citys water is different. But I don't believe there is any way possible for there to be enough floride in the water to kill your fish.
Chlorine, sure just airate or add prime.
This is a situation that deserves attention, but by no means is it an emergency situation that requires panic or drastic measures, members please be cautious on your suggestions and or recommendations.
It is my opinion that unless your algae problem is choking out or fighting for space for light with your corals, everything will be okay. Just hard on the eyes.

[ReeferRob]

MizT do you have a link to the article on the distilled water? I have a co worker that drink 2 gallons a day of the stuff and has horrible digestive issues. Wonder if this might shed some light on his issue for him?


Sorry to hi jack.........

[tazzy695]

Distilled water is said to absorb carbon monoxide from the air, making the water acidic. The FDA recommends that we don't drink it for long periods of time, it can actually absorb the minerals from our bodies, causing healthy issues. So no, distilled for me is out.

while this is true you dont want 100% pure water to drink which is what distilled is and yes it can absorb co2 and other things into it

but if you think about it what is salt but a bunch of minerals you are going to let it absorb the salt and then add enough to saturate it back to natural sea water conditions making it perfectly fine for use in our tanks

if I were going to use distilled in a fw tank I would have to remineralize it even ro/di doesn't get the water as pure as distilled hence the reason we dont always remineralize it

also when you aerate the distilled water it will not only absorb co2 but also o2 and will balance out the ph issue wont really be a factor either due to adding the salt it will buffer it up to the higher basic ph value that we need this is simply due to the ca and carbonate in the salts

it is simple science realy take 100% pure h2o(distilled water) and add minerals it will no longer be 100% pure

[jimsflies]

DI (de-ionized) water is arguably bad for drinking....google it and you will find this debate with no clear answer. I'm not so sure about distilled, which is not the same as DI.

Water is a solvent. DI water is a more aggressive solvent because it isn't stable...water wants to be chemically in equilibrium. DI water has had all the ions stripped out...therefore is more aggressive (ie. looking to pick up those minerals again to reach a more stable balance).

People make mistakes in thinking about drinking water and aquarium water together. What makes for good healthy drinking water, doesn't not necessarily make for good tank water. There are a lot of rules and regulations that public water supplies have to comply with to make water safe for humans. As aquarists, we like RO/DI water because it starts with nothing in it...it is a known commodity. Then we can add what the water needs to have in it to make it suitable for a reef tank.

I agree with Rob...and basically tried to say that last night. Take things slowly and only change one or two things at a time. Unless you are seeing a lot of death of corals and fish, it is just algae and not a crisis. Granted it is no fun to look at, think about, or deal with.

I honestly don't know about the fluoride and what effects it could have in a reef. I suspect people that used city tap water have added it to their tank with no problem. Many, but not all, cities add fluoride to their water to aid with dental health (mostly benefits children and fetuses). It really is a matter of concentration and what the toixicity is to marine organisms. You have to read up on it (google). I can tell you this much, most municipal water where it is added varies from 0.5-1.2 ppm. If my tank were crashing and I had no other alternative, I would use city tap water. But if it weren't an emergency situation, I would likely look for another alternative.

What does your LFS use for water? If they use RO/DI, then I see no reason they wouldn't sell you some. If they use tap, then I guess it's okay to use and would go for it.

[MizTanks]

MizT do you have a link to the article on the distilled water? I have a co worker that drink 2 gallons a day of the stuff and has horrible digestive issues. Wonder if this might shed some light on his issue for him?


Sorry to hi jack.........

No jack worries :)~here's just one link that I've read about drinking distilled water~read about 10 last night alone~pretty much all said the same thing~hope it helps.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070727121004AAVRfXf

[jimsflies]

Taking a moment to futher explore DI versus distilled, I came across this discussion



Deionized water is water that has essentially been stripped of all of its ions. Water likes to be balanced in its natural state, however, and this means that it adds ions to itself to achieve that goal. Therefore, DI water grabs ions from everything it touches that can be dissolved or absorbed. It is about a close as you can get to a Universal Solvent. In your case, it will extract metals from all of the brass fittings you have, and will also pull carbon dioxide from the air - you get the drift.

Its hazardous to you to ingest because of what is called osmotic shock. Your body on a cellular level is balanced to a degree by the amount of salt that your cells have in them. This salt allows electrical signals to travel through your nervous system, creates reactions in your muscles that make them move, and also keep most simple bacteria from killing you because they cannot live in a high salinity environment.

Back to osmotic shock - your cellular walls allow the free passage of water and salt through them. A process called osmosis means that the concentration of salts try to achieve equilibrium by moving to establish similar concentrations through your whole body. If you drink DI water, however, the absence of salt in it makes this movement occur VERY fast, as the body starts to try to reach equilibrium. Unfortunately, the salt movement is so fast and has so much force behind it that the cell walls basically explode from the shock, which of course kills the cells. Kill to many and you can get internal bleeding and all kinds of nasty stuff like that.

Distilled water is not nearly as aggressive as deionized, and it is essentially balanced. It still has very little ions in it, but it is less aggressive than DI and while I would not recommend drinking it either, is less likely to harm you. It also is not corrosive to most metallic internal parts on your welder.

[Fishgeek88]

Ive used distilled in the past and dont remember having any problems.

[MizTanks]

Ya, but it's not recommended for long periods of time~it's actually pretty acidic~I've read a lot of info on the fact that you shouldn't even drink it. For me~majority rules!

[MizTanks]

Ok ya'll I did my WC 2g's using tap water treated with Ampual+ Added Kent Phosphate sponge to chamber #1 no filter floss~In chamber #2 I have Chemipure Elite and a piece of filter pad but only to mask the noise of the water pouring into it, it's very loud with nothing but the small bag of CPE in it.

[jojo22]

Well keep us up to date, it's not ideal, but it could work out.

[MizTanks]

Well? What is ideal then? Oh wait! I know~a bigger tank right?

[ReeferRob]

Maybe you'll treat yourself to a nice RO/DI unit for xmas with all the great black friday sales going on. Here is a solid list of places to check out
http://www.reefbuilders.com/

[jojo22]

Yes, an RO/DI sitting at your house ready to make you nice clean water at all times would be ideal.

BUT since you said it a bigger tank NEVER hurts, at least until you have a water volume capable of keeping whales, then it may be time to look into the "downgrade bug".

[MizTanks]

What about this one?

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/products/reverse-osmosis-filters-and-systems/reverses-osmosis-deionization-systems/standard-ro-di-systems/75-gpd-ro-di-4-stage-economy-system.html

[jojo22]

Looks nice but one of equal quality could be had at e-bay from a store for $25 less.

[MizTanks]

Ebay here I come!!!

Just tested water parameters~ readings are as follows: cal-400/kh 10/ph 7.8 gotta a question on this one, can I use a FW high end ph test kit for Sw? My ph has always been 8.4 not sure why the drop~the only thing I did different aside from using tap water was adding 1 1/2ml of AmQuel+ to the new water~I used a power head for about 6-8hrs before using~however it does state on the bottle that: *Does not in general affect the water's pH* so it is possible that it has affected my pH right?

[jojo22]

Yeah, AmQuel is generally for freshwater, so if you had used it in a freshwater tank it would not have caused a drop, I would check the bottle and website to see if it is advised to use in reef tanks.

I would have also let the water age more, like 24-48 hours

[MizTanks]

It says for FW/SW~and it says to aerate for 24hrs~Oops! Well 7.8 isn't too bad~I'll do another WC on Sunday and just let the mix sit with a power head for 24hrs~maybe put an air stone in there too. Everyone appears happy though~all zoa's are open! We'll see in the a.m.

[jojo22]

You could also just put an airline to the powerhead, and it will do both jobs for you, and save electric.

[MizTanks]

It's not a power head per say (my bad) it's actually a pump~hence adding air stone~This a.m. my tank is looking freaking awesome!!~maybe it's wishful seeing but the HA seems to have actually receded~I'm not kidding~on one part of the LR it's completely gone~so either somethings eating it at night or my hardy picking yesterday did more damage then was first visible~we'll see~sorry for all the panic guys~in the last six months it's been drilled into my head that in my small tank things can go wrong very fast~I can't afford the $$$$ for this to happen~for me some things just aren't replaceable.

[jojo22]

While that is true, it is easier to solve these things if you slow down, as Jim said the other day, changing too many things too quickly can do more damage, and you will never know what the problem really was.

For instance, if you are going to give a go at using the tap water, make sure you do everything else exactly the same as you did before the switch for AT LEAST two weeks. That way if there are any changes, good or bad, you know that they are the result of changing to tap water.

[jimsflies]

Running the pump/airstone will also lower pH. The city of Marquette tap water is going to be around 8.3-8.4, but as it is aerated (i.e., pumped), CO2 will dissolve into the water which will cause the pH to be lower. (CO2+water = cabonic acid = lower pH)

My guess is your tank water is around 8.0 anyway. It also tough to accurately measure pH without a calibrated probe. If you're concerned you can dose a small amount of A&B after doing the water change to help bring the pH back up.

Maintaining a 8.3-8.4 in a tank is fairly tough to do. Look at my signature and you will see what mine is right now.

[MizTanks]

WOW Jim your totally physic!! I just did my WC and picking and was wondering if I dosed already this a.m. should I dose again after the WC~Although I did test the new mix first and the readings are cal-420~ph-8.4~sg 1.025 this after aerating all night~I'll test tank before bed and see what I get. I'm also gonna look for a ph probe~would make thing a little less wet :)


Update: hahahah~now I know what a ph probe is~guess I'll just look for the meter type.

[MizTanks]

I found this artical by: Kordon. It is of course about types of water sources for ponds and aquariums. http://www.novalek.com/kordon/articles/water_sources.html#requirements

My questions to all those here using an RO/DI unit or just RO water~what if any supplements do you add to this water to replace all trace elements that are beneficial to fish and inverts? Are these found in our Salt mixes?

[jojo22]

Most of those are found in the salt mix. The others are dosed according to your needs, you will find that it differs from tank to tank. My personal opinion is that each RO/DI system does a different quality of job at filtering the water, Dependant on upkeep, type, quality of resin and membranes. But most of what you need is in the salt.

[MizTanks]

This has opened up a whole new world for me~when this happens I'm apt to run the subject into the ground until I'm satisfied that I fully understand the reasoning behind the answers I get~sometimes I do this very slowly~understand that is. However your answers and explanations are speeding this up. I would also like to know in all honesty~how many people here are actually using an RO/DI unit~RO unit~or bottled water purchased~such as spring water?

[jojo22]

I always bought distilled water, but I only had a 20G water volume, any more than that and I would have bought an RO/DI unit. It was just convenient to buy the water instead of making it. And with a small water volume it was not too costly.

[tazzy695]

I run a ro unit just a 3 stage without di. And don't add anything but salt for water changes

[Rabidgoose]

I use a TYPHOON III 75gpd RO/DI....highly recommend this unit. You can also contact them about a refurbished unit to save a little money.

http://www.airwaterice.com/

[MizTanks]

Well I went out an bought 4g of RO water~off the shelf~not from the cullegin machine~I think I've found a pretty nice RO/DI system~not overly expensive 169$~it's def gonna go into my fish utility room only~with it only being used for my tanks~filters should last for a while~ya think? That too may be another reason I was so hesitant in buying a unit~replacing filter costs.

[jojo22]

That is a pit pricey IMO, but filters are cheap in comparison to buying water. You usually pay at least $.25 for a gallon of water that you can make for a penny or two including filter costs. It pays off big over the years.

[tazzy695]

if you dont mind me asking what are you getting for 170

taz

[Sir Patrick]

I run a 3 stage ro unit. No DI. I recomend the di though. I will get one sooner or later.

I replaced my filters and membrane just after christmas last year. With no di, I am still (currently) at 8 tds out of the year old filters.

[MizTanks]

I found an RO unit on airwaterice.com for 169$

I found an RO/DI unit on Ebay for 167.20 free shipping.Here's a link to this one.

I've been online for the last 3hrs searching for the best deals~so far Ebay has been the cheapest as far as RO/DI units and RO units. Now quality is another story for me cause I know nothing about them~that's why ya'll are here to guide me on my way :)

http://cgi.ebay.com/REEF-DRINKING-RO-DI-REVERSE-OSMOSIS-WATER-FILTER-SYSTEM_W0QQitemZ350283228395QQcategoryZ20756QQcmdZ ViewItemQQ_trksidZp3907.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSI% 26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%252BFICS%26otn%3D12%26po%3DLVI% 26ps%3D63

[Sir Patrick]

Mine is an ebay baught unit. Its 6 years old, and still works well.

I have heard that the filters that come with them are a cheap variety, but can be replaced with good quality filters/membranes when the others go bad. The quality on the filters is just what I have read- no experiance. I baught mine used and replaced all the insides from thefilterguys.biz

[Cash]

What do you guys think about this unit?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Reef-Aquarium-RO-DI-Reverse-Osmosis-Water-Filter-75-gpd_W0QQitemZ390122170260QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_0?hash=item5ad517e794

[tazzy695]

I would say a good unit for most reef tanks with exception of the largest system only issue is if you plan on using it for drinking water you will need to T off between the ro and di to take drinking water before it goes through the resin

[tazzy695]

The thing with ro units is almost no matter who makes it they are generic parts just avoid the systems that say the require special filter cartriges I had one of these once and found filter cost to be outragous

Tazzy

[MizTanks]

What do you guys think about this unit?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Reef-Aquarium-RO-DI-Reverse-Osmosis-Water-Filter-75-gpd_W0QQitemZ390122170260QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_0?hash=item5ad517e794


Thats the same one I'm looking at~actually it sounds/looks pretty nice~30 day money back guarantee~filters available at most hardware stores~I like the 3 available connection options~and the upgrades available~personally I'm gonna go for it!

[schminksbro]

Bulk Reef is having a sale Miz. Here is a link.
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/products/reverse-osmosis-filters-and-systems/reverses-osmosis-deionization-systems

[MizTanks]

Hi schmink~thanks for looking out for me~now I'm totally confused~could you or some pretty please do a little comparison for me of the 2~I have no idea what the difference is between them except blulks says its a 4 stage and ebays says standard.

[tazzy695]

The 2 systems that cash and schmink refrence to 75gpd 4@stage units are basicly the same and will filter the same

What I would do is buy a 3 stage unit and an addon canister for a remote di can probably get cost down to less then 75 that way