We never learn the right way, do we?

[Manoj's Reef]

Yesterday I noticed two cottony spots on my adult picasso pair ( 1.5 yr old) , I thought that it could have been some food stuck to the body, but in the back of my mind I was thinking it could be ick or some kind of fungus.

I saw this morning that the two spots seem to look like some rash and now there are more small/tiny cottony spots.

Now my purple fire fish has one cottony spot. I finally decided to setup a hospital/qt tank.

I always knew that being in this hobby I need to have a hospital/qt tank but I was confident that my fish will not get ich as I will try to keep the best params but some how my fish got it. I still have no clue what caused it.

But finally 2yrs in the hobby I started my hospital/qt tank today. Hopefully they make it through. My strategy is to feed the heck out of the fish to keep it strong to fight it out. If that dosent work then the fish will be moved to the hospital tank.

Share your experience and tips with ich.

[jimsflies]

Sounds like you are on the right path. Spike the food with garlic too...I think that's supposed to help.

[Manoj's Reef]

Sounds like you are on the right path. Spike the food with garlic too...I think that's supposed to help.

My wife smashed some garlic and we put it in the food. Jim can you tell me what kind of medication should I plan on ?

[iyachtuxivm]

Yes garlic helps in a couple ways. First it boosts the fishes immune system. Second it is an appitite stimulant alot of fish stop eating when they get ich and then it spirals out of control. Keeping them eating is most important. If you can get them out before it takes a stronger hold that would be good. That way you can medicate will lots of different approved drugs without damaging corals. If you do remove the fish keep the tank fallow for 6 weeks to make sure the ich is gone. I had an out break about 1 month after I brought home a tommini tang. Ofcoarse I didnt have a QT either I buy from places the qt their fish, Still need to qt or its like russian roulette. I used garlic supplement and freash 2 times a week all the fish made it. When i transfered them to the bigger tank my clown gobies got it again and died this time. Got all the fish out and waited 6 weeks before putting anything back in no problems so far 9+ months.
Good luck:thumbsup:

[Manoj's Reef]

Jamie,

Are you suggesting that I should take all fish out or just the three fishes that are infected?

Also my strategy was to first feed the heck out of them and then observe, if I see their health deteriorate then I plan on moving them to the qt tank.

I am afraid if I move them to the qt now, I might stress them more.

What are your thoughts?

[ReeferRob]

Wow, guess I didn't know that it was possible for fish to get ich in a well established tank. Particularly if there were no new introductions.

Good luck Manoj, hope all goes well.

I feed NLS pellets Thera A formula to help battle parasites.

[Manoj's Reef]

You are right Rob, there were no fish added and no coral as well.

The only change was that I put in a brand new sump with the same rocks that were in the sump before. I decided not to put sand because it would cause a new cycle.

The swap took less than 5 hrs. But the system was not stopped, the power heads were on. I dont think that was the trigger because I do this every month to test my back up system and I shut the system down for 6 hrs to see how my back up holds up.

[Manoj's Reef]

That way you can medicate will lots of different approved drugs without damaging corals.
Good luck:thumbsup:

Jamie, can you tell me what kind of medications did you use?

[Sir Patrick]

+1 on the garlic.

Might also want to look into hyposalinity. Helped me in the past! A good UV sterilizer, if possible, will surely help.

Waiting to move your infected fish is a hard one to decide...yes, the move can stress the fish more- but you dont want to infect any other uninfected fish either.

[Sir Patrick]

I have no info on meds....I have never used any.

[tankdude]

Rob mentioned that he didn't think a new case if ich could happen in a established tank, that leads me to believe that something in the tank is causing stress. What is that? I don't know, it's great that your so active in the treatment process. I would also recommend a uv sterilizer, I have always had one and I find them to be very beneficial.

[Manoj's Reef]

Rob mentioned that he didn't think a new case if ich could happen in a established tank, that leads me to believe that something in the tank is causing stress. What is that? I don't know, it's great that your so active in the treatment process. I would also recommend a uv sterilizer, I have always had one and I find them to be very beneficial.

I am still trying to figure out what caused the problem.I have a UV reactor and I will be putting that back on the system today/tomorrow (need a new bulb)


Today I also noticed that my super male flame wrasse has a slight cloudy/pop eye, not sure if the ick and the cloudy/pop eye are related.

I fed them this morning and they ate like a champ. I soaked rods food in fresh minced/smashed garlic for 20 min and then fed them.

[iyachtuxivm]

Jamie, can you tell me what kind of medications did you use?

I didnt use any meds the garlic was enough the first time. Garlic supports the immune system and they were all strong healthy fish. The problem is without medication the ich will still be in there, probably what you are experiancing now. Something stressed the fish allowing the ich to get a stronger foot hold. It could have come in a while ago just didnt cause much of an outbreak because the fishes immune system was stronger then. You can try just garlic supplements so you dont over stress them with removal. That wont kill the ich though it may pop back up overtime. The only way to get rid of it is to remove the fish treat with meds or hypo and leave your reef fishless for at least 6 weeks that is its lifecycle if there is no host it will die.

[ReeferRob]

Ich is always present dormant living in our sand beds. The key repeated from above is to keep our fish fat, healthy and happy. Add flakes with garlic extrat to the daily feeding regim as well as non parasitic foulas like the NLS Thera a Formula. Plus u need to whisper sweet nothings to the fish to comfort them!

[waucedah_joe]

Are you sure its Ick? Ick looks more like white pimples, you mentioned white fuzzy spots.

[Manoj's Reef]

Are you sure its Ick? Ick looks more like white pimples, you mentioned white fuzzy spots.

I am not 100% sure, I still researching meanwhile I am keeping them fed well and starting to prepare for the worst.

I am seeing more fuzzy spots and not white pimples, would you know what they are ?

Also if you have a site where I can see some pics that would be great.

[Manoj's Reef]

Plus u need to whisper sweet nothings to the fish to comfort them!


My wife is doing that lol..they are her babies, It was my valentines day gift to her.

[MizTanks]

WOW! Ich is my #1 enemy! I lost 5 fish to it. Finally I allowed my tank to fallow (fish free) for 1 month~that was the only thing that worked for me. From what I've learned about Ich after a lot of research~the tank it's self needs to be treated and since we don't use chemicals in a reef tank the only other way to rid it of the parasite is to *starve* them out. A+ on what everyone else is saying also.

[waucedah_joe]

I found a pretty good picture on this page. The blue tang at the top looks like mine did only mine had more spots.

http://flameangelfish.net/marine-ich.php

I got rid of it with KickIch, I know that reviews are mixed on this product but I used the heavy dose and followed the directions to a "T" and it worked for me.

[Manoj's Reef]

I found a pretty good picture on this page. The blue tang at the top looks like mine did only mine had more spots.

http://flameangelfish.net/marine-ich.php

I got rid of it with KickIch, I know that reviews are mixed on this product but I used the heavy dose and followed the directions to a "T" and it worked for me.

Mine dont look the one in picture, I cleaned the glass today and will try to take some pictures. Mine are a little fuzzy.

[Manoj's Reef]

Picked up my UV reactor bulb this morning, I will plug it in today, I know it will not solve it but I am sure it should help.

[Townes]

are sure it is Ick...almost sounds like it would be something else.

[Manoj's Reef]

Let me know your thoughts

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procgtaserv/47a0d820b3127cce98548cc5ff4b00000035100AcMWTRm4Ysm Ig

This is the male:
Two white fuzzy spot behind the eye area
one white fuzzy spot on the upper side of the fish, right where the fish touches the frogspawn

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procgtaserv/47a0d820b3127cce98548cc07e7e00000035100AcMWTRm4Ysm Ig
This is the female:
One white fuzzy spot behind the eye
One white fuzzy spot on the tail - where black meets orange.

Today the spots seem to have improved.

Let me know what do you think these white spots are?

[Sir Patrick]

Not sure...I could be wrong- but havnt seen ick like that before. I am more acustomed to white specks/dots.

I havnt seen ick in a long time, like 5 years long. Hope someone can chime in with better info.

[MizTanks]

Doesn't look like Ich to me-maybe marine *velvet*
here's a link http://www.aboutfishonline.com/articles/marinevelvet.html

[weimers75]

Its not ich. That's why its so imprtant to post pics before trying to treat anything. Ich looks like flour was dusted over them. Yours looks more like a fungus of some sort. Try looking for pics of marine velvet.

[Manoj's Reef]

Its not ich. That's why its so imprtant to post pics before trying to treat anything. Ich looks like flour was dusted over them. Yours looks more like a fungus of some sort. Try looking for pics of marine velvet.

I thought so, I have not started any treatment yet so thats good. I plan on researching some more today. Thanks.

[Manoj's Reef]

Doesn't look like Ich to me-maybe marine *velvet*
here's a link http://www.aboutfishonline.com/articles/marinevelvet.html

Thanks Jamie, thats good information.

Has any one had experience with marine velvet before?

[Manoj's Reef]

Checked the fishes this morning and afternoon. They are eating very well. Also the popeye of the super male flame has gone down quite a bit.

The fuzzy patches on the clown also have reduced. I am still keeping my fingers crossed. Hopefully everything becomes okay.

The QT is still up and running, if things take a turn for the worse then I might need it.

[Bella127]

How are the fish doing Manoj? Any updates! I am hoping for the best

[Manoj's Reef]

How are the fish doing Manoj? Any updates! I am hoping for the best

The adult picassos made it through. I dont see they symptoms anymore. But I am still keeping my fingers crossed.

purple fire fish got one spot on it and now that seems to have gone as well, it looks like a black spot now, not sure what to make of it yet. But eating fine and moving fine.

Super male flame, had a pop eye but it went away after 2 days, I guess it got bruised some how.

The display tank is still on a heavy diet of garlic based foods, three times a day.

Now,

The problem has moved to my frag tank where my new pair of juvi picassos reside, the small one has got the similar patches and has spread to the fins. The juvi picassos are on a heavy diet, so hopefully they will make it.

The QT is up and running and I will observe him for the next two/three days and then it will go into the QT.

I am nervous as I have not done treatments on fishes before, but I am reading a lot now and hoping I can first diagnose the disease correctly so that I can being the treatment. Also I have put a large piece of sponge in my refugium, so when I move my fish to qt, I will move a piece of that sponge into the QT filter to aid the bacteria growth.

Fingers Crossed:)

[Manoj's Reef]

Time for an update:

The juvi picasso is doing better now, its still in the frag tank and I have not moved to the hospital tank yet.

Its eating slow (always since I bought it) but has a good appetite , its responding to the 4 times daily feeding.

After a lot of reading I am 100% sure now that its not ICH, but not sure yet on what it is.

The white patches on the fins have gone, but there are some on the body. Its still behaving normally and the squabbling with its mate is going on so thats a good sign.

I am still continuing the heavy diet with garlic, so far the response is good.

The hospital tank is still up and running- just in case.

- Display tank

All the fishes in the display tank are doing fine now, the adult female picasso is not showing any signs of the white patches and the purple fish is also free of it.

The heavy feeding is still on.

[thefishgirl]

Are you sure those aren't some type of flukes or a flatworm parasite? Do they appear to move around on the body and / or multiply? They can actually be on the fish eyes as well.

If you can catch one one of your fish, do a 1-3 minute dip in fresh water... let them swim around and see if the things fall off. My occy had them really bad after a long trip.. I thought he might die, but after a dip a day for 2 days in a row, all the parasites had dropped off.

I still check him and on sometimes have to re-dip him, but he is doing great now. There is a chemical treatment as well.. Prazi-Pro? Something like that. I've not used it before personally as the freshwater dip works fine.

[Manoj's Reef]

Thanks for the tips Becky, I checked and they are not flat worms. I am still not 100% sure what it is but the fish looks like its improving.

The fish is still active and eating well. Thats the only reason why I am not moving it to the hospital tank for treatment.

The fish is a 4 month old baby so I dont want to stress it, so I am trying to feed it as much as possible. Currently its fed 4 times daily.

I wish I could show you guys some pics, but its so hard to take pics of them, they keep moving constantly.

[Manoj's Reef]

Today the fish went through its first fresh water dip. And I was extremely nervous as I had not done that before.

I caught the fish with my hands as I did not want the scales to get caught in the net, initially the fish was super puzzled when I put him in fresh water but after a minute he calmed down. I removed him after three minutes.

It seemed like it was me who was more nervous than he was.

[Manoj's Reef]

This morning I checked and the fish is doing fine, I hope it had a good night sleep. Later this evening I will check to see if there are any improvements.

[thefishgirl]

Today the fish went through its first fresh water dip. And I was extremely nervous as I had not done that before.

I caught the fish with my hands as I did not want the scales to get caught in the net, initially the fish was super puzzled when I put him in fresh water but after a minute he calmed down. I removed him after three minutes.

It seemed like it was me who was more nervous than he was.


Mine will eat while he's in his freshwater dip. I think he works up an appetite after I chase him around the tank for 20 minutes trying to catch him. I have to feed him to get him to come out.... so when I finally do catch him, there is food stuck in the net. LOL

[Manoj's Reef]

Mine will eat while he's in his freshwater dip.

WOW !!!!...

I put him back in the same tank that he came from, I know that I should not as the parasite is still there. I will watch for another week and then move him.

He gets along with the other fish so well and feels secure in the frog spawn so I dont want to move him until its necessary. He is only 5 months old so I got be careful dealing with him.

[Manoj's Reef]

I did the second fresh water dip and the fish responded well. Now I see a dark circle on his body,not sure what it is. But the fish did respond well to the dip. Appetite is still good.

He will be moved to QT today, hopefully he gets well soon.

[Manoj's Reef]

The fish was moved to QT two days ago. So far its doing well, the scales on the body look okay but there is a dark patch on the body.

His appetite has gone down. He is active but is not eating much, I am attributing this to relocation. Last night I put cupramine in the water to treat him and prevent any secondary infection.

[Manoj's Reef]

The fish finally started eating yesterday.

Copper treatment is on. And the scales on the body look good. The black spot seems to be receding.

[fawkes]

I know it is late in this thread, and there is doubt about the ich diagnosis. But ich is cyclical - see the biology section in http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php - does it ever go away???

FWIW, it is useful to have extra stuff around. An extra tank, heater, pump, maybe a spare MJ1200, Koralia shaft and impeller (or an extra Koralia), maricyn...I'm sure there are dozens of other things the rest of you can come up with.

[Manoj's Reef]

I know it is late in this thread, and there is doubt about the ich diagnosis. But ich is cyclical - see the biology section in http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php - does it ever go away???

FWIW, it is useful to have extra stuff around. An extra tank, heater, pump, maybe a spare MJ1200, Koralia shaft and impeller (or an extra Koralia), maricyn...I'm sure there are dozens of other things the rest of you can come up with.

Thanks very good information. I have saved the information on my hard drive. Yeah your advice if definitely right, its always good to have extra stuff.

The fish has started eating well, I have been feeding two times and its eating well. The fish is looking better and the spot where the white color was lost is returning slowly. But I think I am still not out of woods yet. I am planning on keeping the fish in the copper treatment for another 2 months to make sure he recovers completely and becomes strong.

[fawkes]

Great news about the improvement in the health of the fish. It is always gratifying when we can help. Sometimes things go bad quickly and it turns bad.

[ReeferMike]

im puzzled as to what the fuzzy spots could be... i hope they pull through, sounds like youre making a heck of an effort. no casualties yet right?

[Manoj's Reef]

im puzzled as to what the fuzzy spots could be... i hope they pull through, sounds like youre making a heck of an effort. no casualties yet right?

Mike, as per my reading I found it to be marine velvet. Marine velvet are of two types , one that spreads and one that stays confined to a small region on the fish. This one stayed confined to a region.

Also there was secondary infection of fin rot.


Currently the fin is growing back up. The fish is eating well. There was a spot where the fish lost scales and now its recovering.

I cannot take the full credit, I did the reading part of it and my wife is doing the execution part. But yes I did not want to loose the fish and also I wanted to learn how to deal with situations like these.


I will keep you guys updated!!

[Manoj's Reef]

The dark patch on the fish is about 85-95% gone. The fish is chasing food and eating well. He is still in QT and I plan to keep him there for the next 4-6 weeks.

The fin rot is no longer there, the dorsal fin is regrowing and I am hoping in a 4-6 week time period it should be ready to be put back into the frag tank.

So to summarize the treatment:

Set up QT
- 15g QT has hob filter
- power head
- few pvc pipe pieces

Sponge from display was put into hob filter to do bacteria seeding

Fish was fresh water dipped for 3 minutes and put in QT
The water was treated with copper ( dose was as shown on the cupramine bottle)
Weekly water changes to keep up with ammonia build up.