Detroit Public Water

[cheapfish1]

Hey I was just about to order the replacement filters for my filterguys RO/DI system and was wondering if anyone knew off hand whether dpw uses chlorine or chloramine. I live in Warren but believe it is all the same.

Thanks,
</Mike>

[streetrodder007]

I believe the majority of cities use Chloramine. Thats what I always heard. Chloramine is attached with Ammonia for a easier cleaning process.

[jimsflies]

No DWSD uses chlorine.

Only a couple city's in the state use chloramines that come to mind...East Lansing and Lansing.

[AZDesertRat]

It really does not matter, a single good 0.6 micron 20,000 gallon Chlorine Guzzler carbob block is more than sufficient for both free chlorine and chloramines.

Many vendors try to scare buyers in to buying "special" chloramine filters. In truth, chloramine removal is not that tough. You need good DI resin much more than any special carbon since a good carbon block will adsorb the chlorine portion of chloramines, its the ammonia portion many overlook and thats where the quality DI system comes in to play. I would upgrade my DI system and drop back to a single 0.5 or 0.6 micron Chlorine Guizzler. Less pressure drop across the membrane so more production and potentially higher quality effluent.

Dual carbons are a holdover from years ago when carbon was not as refined or understood as it is today. On many of the ebay quality systems it is used to make up for low quality, high micron or unrated size, and low capacity carbon, often in granular form. Many granular carbons are exhausted in as little as 300 total gallons, thats 240 waste gallons and only 60 treated RO/DI gallons. Some carbon blocks only last 1000 to 1500 gallons so again thats only 200 to 300 treated gallons.

With the advent of carbon blocks such as the Matrikx+1 from KX they can now blend and extrude carbons for maximum performance and lifespan. get a single Chlorine Guzzler and convert that empty housing in to a second DI for better water. It will extend you DI life tremendously.

[simonbenjamin]

Old thread but heres correct info:

I have had a hard time finding the correct info on this so now that Ive spoken to a person with a phd in chemical engineer and a masters in material science who was a supervisor for the Detroit water department for 20 years and now works for the army testing water supplies.Detroit not only supplies all of wayne county but the majority of surrounding cities.Detroit not only supplies all of wayne county but the majority of surrounding cities.

[simonbenjamin]

Detroit not only supplies all of wayne county but the majority of surrounding cities.

[simonbenjamin]

Detroit stopped using CHLORINE in lieu of CHLORAMINE well over 10 years ago.Detroit DOES NOT use chlorine.Chloramine Does not disipate or evaporate, nor can it be boiled out, you must have a chloramine filter.Read more:

[dputt88]

the water treatment facility belongs to hamtramck... just though id point out that its not detroit using these additives, its hamtramck. i had a professor that would go on rants about the politics about that place, though it was a government class so still appropriate.

[AZDesertRat]

Not sure about some of the recent posts here but chloramines are comprised of chlorine and ammonia. Any good quality 0.5, 0.6 or 1.0 micron carbon block such as the popular Matrikx +1 series is more than capable of removing the chlorine portion of the chloramines and a good mixed bed DI with proper contact time removes the ammonia. Carbons DO NOT remove the ammonia and the ammonia is what we are most concerned about here.

When I say proper contact time on the DI that means a full size, 10" vertical DI filter, packed properly and with bottom up flow so all resin and water come into contact with each other. Its no big deal and done every day.

[simonbenjamin]

It was my understanding that most of the good carbon filters will remove chloramine as a whole, the chlorine and ammoia. Eliminating the need for a di, for the purpose of removing the ammonia part of chloramine anyway. I thought An average carbon filter will not seperate atoms as you described above. Please correct me if im wrong, point me in the direction of one that will seperate chlorine atoms from ammonia atoms.

Thanks for the input

[jimsflies]

Whoa...a lot of mis-information here!



Detroit stopped using CHLORINE in lieu of CHLORAMINE well over 10 years ago.Detroit DOES NOT use chlorine.Chloramine Does not disipate or evaporate, nor can it be boiled out, you must have a chloramine filter.

Detroit does NOT use chloramines and still uses chlorine as its disinfectant. Also chloramine as AZDesertRat states can easily be removed with a good carbon block.



the water treatment facility belongs to hamtramck... just though id point out that its not detroit using these additives, its hamtramck. i had a professor that would go on rants about the politics about that place, though it was a government class so still appropriate.


The city of Detroit (and surrounding areas..e.g., Hamtramck) get their water from 5 drinking water treatment plants that are owned and operated by Detroit Water and Sewerage Department. One of these plants is located near Hamtramck but not owned nor operated by Hamtramck. For more info...here is the water report for Hamtramck (http://www.hamtramck.us/documents/2011CityofHamtramckCCR.pdf). And here is the Report for DWSD (http://www.dwsd.org/downloads_n/customer_service/customer_information/water_quality_report.pdf)

[simonbenjamin]

the water treatment facility belongs to hamtramck... just though id point out that its not detroit using these additives, its hamtramck. i had a professor that would go on rants about the politics about that place, though it was a government class so still appropriate.

Actually, hamtramck purchases its water from Detroit, its public knowledge. Check hamtramcks water reports. What they do with it after they get it I wouldnt know.

[simonbenjamin]

[QUOTE=jimsflies;170946]Whoa...a lot of mis-information here!




Detroit does NOT use chloramines and still uses chlorine as its disinfectant. Also chloramine as AZDesertRat states can easily be removed with a good carbon block.

Before you say misimformation please read all posts. I did say a good filter removes it and detroit hasnt used chlorine in 10 years. Look it up.

[AZDesertRat]

No. The carbon breaks the bond between the chlorine and the ammonia and removes the chlorine leaving the ammonia to be removed by the RO membrane which is only partially effective at all forms of ammonia(nitrites, nitrates etc.) and polished off by the DI resin.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-11/rhf/feature/index.htm

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200056

[simonbenjamin]

Not sure about some of the recent posts here but chloramines are comprised of chlorine and ammonia. Any good quality 0.5, 0.6 or 1.0 micron carbon block such as the popular Matrikx +1 series is more than capable of removing the chlorine portion of the chloramines and a good mixed bed DI with proper contact time removes the ammonia. Carbons DO NOT remove the ammonia and the ammonia is what we are most concerned about here.

When I say proper contact time on the DI that means a full size, 10" vertical DI filter, packed properly and with bottom up flow so all resin and water come into contact with each other. Its no big deal and done every day.

This post is why I asked the atom question.

[jimsflies]

detroit hasnt used chlorine in 10 years. Look it up.

You can disagree all you want about the chloramine use in DWSD, but you would be wrong. I work in the state agency that oversees drinking water quality in Michigan. I know we have a good handle on what each treatment plant is doing in this state.

[simonbenjamin]

No. The carbon breaks the bond between the chlorine and the ammonia and removes the chlorine leaving the ammonia to be removed by the RO membrane which is only partially effective at all forms of ammonia(nitrites, nitrates etc.) and polished off by the DI resin.

Chloramine and the Reef Aquarium - Reefkeeping.com (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-11/rhf/feature/index.htm)

Chloramines - Reef Central Online Community (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200056)

Ok. That does make sense. I still believe detroit uses chloramine not chlorine, please prove wrong.

[jimsflies]

Ok. That does make sense. I still believe detroit uses chloramine not chlorine, please prove wrong.

lol...I could ask the same from you.

Take a look at the water quality report I linked above for DWSD. Under Disinfectants and Disinfection By-Products, both list chlorine. By contrast, Lansing Board of Water and Light, one of the only four systems in Michigan to use chloramine, lists chloramine under their Disinfectants and Disinfection By-Products section (http://www.lbwl.com/WaterQualityReport/) (you'll have to click on "Tables" to see it).

[simonbenjamin]

You can disagree all you want about the chloramine use in DWSD, but you would be wrong. I work in the state agency that oversees drinking water quality in Michigan. I know we have a good handle on what each treatment plant is doing in this state.


Im here to learn. Ive seen a report that said chloramine so forgive me for not taking your word, I like facts. Please if u can pointe in the right direction.

[AZDesertRat]

How many different sources does the Detroit area have? I know in the Phoenix Metro area there are literally a dozen or more major surface water treatment plants fed by three major sources so each has a different blend of water, different treatment method and several different disinfection methods. Some use free chlorine, some chloramines, others chlorine dioxide which is very popular here and yet others Ozone or UV followed by a small dose of chlorine. Some use gaseous chlorine, some liquid sodium chloride, some erosion feeders using tablets or calcium chloride and some have chlorine generators which use salt and electricity to create a weak chlorine solution.

The thing is you never know what is being used or what the real time water quality is, it even changes in the distribution system after leaving the plants. Would I drink it? Absolutely with no reservations. Would I put it in my reef tank? Absolutely not! I want stability and a known product and the only way to get that is having your own personal RO/DI system.

[simonbenjamin]

lol...I could ask the same from you.

Take a look at the water quality report I linked above for DWSD. Under Disinfectants and Disinfection By-Products, both list chlorine. By contrast, Lansing Board of Water and Light, one of the only four systems in Michigan to use chloramine, lists chloramine under their Disinfectants and Disinfection By-Products section (http://www.lbwl.com/WaterQualityReport/) (you'll have to click on "Tables" to see it).

Got it. Thx

[jimsflies]

How many different sources does the Detroit area have? I know in the Phoenix Metro area there are literally a dozen or more major surface water treatment plants fed by three major sources so each has a different blend of water, different treatment method and several different disinfection methods. Some use free chlorine, some chloramines, others chlorine dioxide which is very popular here and yet others Ozone or UV followed by a small dose of chlorine. Some use gaseous chlorine, some liquid sodium chloride, some erosion feeders using tablets or calcium chloride and some have chlorine generators which use salt and electricity to create a weak chlorine solution.

The thing is you never know what is being used or what the real time water quality is, it even changes in the distribution system after leaving the plants. Would I drink it? Absolutely with no reservations. Would I put it in my reef tank? Absolutely not! I want stability and a known product and the only way to get that is having your own personal RO/DI system.

Four of them use different intakes along the Detroit River (the other uses Lake Huron water which provides water to northern areas of metro-Detroit and Genesee County)...some of the plants are also equipped with ozone which is why you also see bromate in the disinfection by-products list on the CCR.

[simonbenjamin]

Question. Why does my new calibrated ph meter read 10 after running through ro when i know its about 7? Is it because minerals are removed?

[AZDesertRat]

You cannot accurately measure the pH of ultrapure water as there are too few ions to measure. It really makes no difference anyway as the RO/DI or ultrapure water quickly takes on the characteristics of whatever it is added to or is added to it. For all intents and purposes it is considered neutral.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-05/rhf/index.php

[simonbenjamin]

Question. Why does my new calibrated ph meter read 10 after running through ro when i know its about 7? Is it because minerals are removed?

...... and its just giving a misreading because of the lack of minerals?

[AZDesertRat]

Many factors including temperature and CO2. The answer can get quite detailed.