XSiVE's 120 in-wall

[XSiVE]

I just thought I would throw some basic info / pics of what I've got since I'm still new here.

The tank is a 4x2x2 120gallon
sump is 55g
"fuge" is a 29gal

Display is lit by 2x250W 14k MH's and 2x UVL t5HO actinics
Current is provided by a mag12 return pump, a mag9 on an oceans motions 2-way, and two Koralia #4's

As you can see in the pics I have a rock wall covering the back so you cant see through into the fish room, I don't have a ton of livestock, as a lot of my stuff died off in a Kalk disaster I had awhile back.


I really like SPS corals, but Im also into many different types of LPS.

After 2 years of having the display in the wall with a hole cut and a year of having the materials to frame it in, I finally decided to do it this week.. hehe

http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4484-2/framed_in.jpg

"whole" fish room area.

http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4488-2/fishroom1.jpg

north wall, you can see here my RO reservoir on top, and my mixing tub on the bottom with the ball valve for quick refill on water changes... Fuge has a couple of koralia's creating a swirling current to keep the cheato tumbling.. the T5's above it were over my frag tank, but they arent used right now.

http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4491-2/fishroom2.jpg

the backside of the display:
Middle drill spot is the inlet to the closed loop, bottom is one of the outlets, the other outlet is the pipe running up to the top of the tank.
oh the right are just some shelves for organizing, with my MH ballast ontop

http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4494-2/fishroom3.jpg


Im working on putting together a DIY LED fixture, I'll put the updates to that in this thread too.

[MizTanks]

Does cheato have to tumble?

[Mike]

I like it esp the fish room

[XSiVE]

Does cheato have to tumble?

No, but it does extremely well when it tumbles, and it also keeps itself a lot more contained in a tight ball when it does.

[Sir Patrick]

Wow!! Very nice!

That looks like a very mature display- how long has it been running? Awsome fish room!

[XSiVE]

This system has been up for 2 years, but all the rock, the monti's, frogspawn(got it from Tal) and the green favia came out of my 55g which was up for a good 3 years before I made the move to the 120.

I'll have to figure out how to get a good FTS.. not sure if I can cram it all into frame though.

[XSiVE]

Well, I took a lot of my free time this weekend in an attempt to get my new LED system operational.

I got one of the two planned pendants complete other than fans and a db9 (serial port) connection wired in. I plan to have just a single "wire" running to each pendant so I've gotta wait till that last shipment comes in.

I have pics of the entire build start to finish but I don't want to go through the hassle of converting from RAW at the moment. I'll be sure to upload them tomorrow when I've got a little time.

[XSiVE]

okay so I was just making sure since the reformat of my laptop I have all the tools needed to actually upload tomorrow.. so

here's a teaser. Im a little concerned about how the shadows are formed with these, but I think the refractive nature of water will mute it quite a bit.

http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4499-2/handshadow.jpg

[iyachtuxivm]

No that is normal. That is what will give you your shimmer in the water.

[XSiVE]

As promised - here's the build for one of my two LED pendants. I started with an idea of approximately what I wanted... drew it up in google sketchup:
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4503-2/6x6LED+pendant.jpg

LEDs - x36 CREE XR-E Q5 & x36 CREE XR-E RB mounted on star PCB from rapidLED.com
Drivers - x6 MeanWell ELN-60-48D also from rapidLED.com


Got my two 8.46"x16" heat sinks from Heatsinksusa.com these things are deceptively heavy.
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4515-2/Step-1-Heatsinks.jpg

Some 1/20"x96" Aluminum L-stock from Lowes/Home Depot, relatively cheap and very useful if you're doing some light structural stuff.
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4559-2/Step-2-Aluminum_L_stock.jpg

Line things up and mark them for drilling
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4567-2/Step-3-mark-L-for-drill.jpg

Drill your pilot holes
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4571-2/Step-4-drill-pilot-holes.jpg

Make sure you clamp everything together once you get to the second heat sink if you're putting two together like I was. I also found on my second pendant that it was easier to drill from the other side of the heat sink so I could get a nice centered hole between the fins.
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4573-2/Step-5-besuretoclamp.jpg

Bolt it all up.
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4579-2/Step-6-bolts.jpg

Clean the heat sink off with rubbing alcohol to remove any machining lubricant that may be left on then measure out and draw your grid on with a sharpie, don't worry about how exact it is, it's just gotta be pretty even / close.
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4583-2/Step-7-grid.jpg

[XSiVE]

Mix up your epoxy if you're using that. I decided to go with this stuff as it gives the best thermal transfer as compared to using a thermal paste + screwing them down.
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4587-2/Step-8-epoxy.jpg

Use just a little bit of epoxy on the bottom of your LEDs.. a thin blob about 1/4 the size of the mixing tool.. here I used too much.
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4595-2/Step-9-led-down-toomuch.jpg

This one is just about the right amount.
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4591-2/Step-9-led-down-justright.jpg

Blues all stuck down.
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4519-2/Step-10-bluesdown.jpg

Wire them together, positive of one to negative of the next.
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4523-2/Step-11-blueswired.jpg

Test firing the blues.
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4527-2/Step-12-bluetest.jpg

Here are the blues dimmed as far as possible using my current dimming circuit, as you can see, the driver is putting out 50 mA at this point and they will still make you see spots.
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4529-2/Step-13-bluedimmest.jpg

This is the dimming circuit I put together - courtesy Evilc66 in a thread on RC.
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4506-1/0-10VLM317.jpg

[XSiVE]

Repeat blue steps for white LEDs.
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4535-2/Step-14-whitesdimmed.jpg

Since I went with 72 total LEDS for my system, I ended up with what amounts to an exrta half a string(only 6 instead of 12) of each blue and white per pendant so I made a sort of "50/50" string.. It has trouble dimming, I assume because the different fV or something.
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4539-2/Step-15-50-50-string.jpg

Bracket made from more aluminum L stock, and a little bit of 1/8" bar stock. these pieces are just bolted into the main L bracket with m3 nuts and bolts.
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4543-2/Step-16-on-wired-splash-bracket.jpg

all ready to do a full test.
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4547-2/Step-17-ready-to-test.jpg

hanging.. holy crap I didnt think a light could be so heavy.. it's probably 20-25lbs!
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4551-2/Step-18-hanging-powered.jpg

yay! all lit!
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4555-2/Step-19-all-lit.jpg

and from underneath.
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4563-2/Step-20-lit-from-bottom.jpg


I'll have more of this LED build to come, I have to condense all of the wiring into something that can easily connect to these.

[Sir Patrick]

Sweet build!!!

[jolson10450]

Very nice! so you just used epoxy to attach your LEDS to the aluminum? What type of epoxy? i am planning a build soon but i have seen some people screw them down and others not tell what they did.

[XSiVE]

Very nice! so you just used epoxy to attach your LEDS to the aluminum? What type of epoxy? i am planning a build soon but i have seen some people screw them down and others not tell what they did.

It's arctic silver thermal epoxy, it acts as both a bond and a heat transfer agent... the only drawback is that if you are going to get one of the LEDs off.. you will be replacing it and most likely scratching the aluminum.

[XSiVE]

I spent all yesterday evening working on the small wiring details. My wrists and fingers are killing me.

here's how I placed the wiring container & fans overtop..

http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4599-2/Step-21-fan-and-box-rig.jpg

I was pretty damn tired but I hung them over the tank rag-tag using the hangars that I had supporting my halide setup. I will be getting some new roller track hangars to take care of this mess. It clearly needs some adjustment but its more than hard to do with the current setup. the fixtures are supposed to be about 8" from each other in the center, they are currently about 4 so my light spread is nowhere near what I want it to be.

http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4603-2/Step-22-hang-them-needs-adjust.jpg


then take a look at the before versus after.

I also need to dial in the color temp to something more my liking... I will probably do this while I wait for my roller track :)

Before: you can see how ambient the light is from the 2x250W 14k halides + actinic t5.
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4607-2/Step-23-observe-before-shot.jpg

After: again, spread and color temp are not where I want them to be right now, so it looks "darker" at first glance, but pay particular attention to the orange monti cap. You can definitely see how much brighter the light actually is on this thing.
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4611-2/Step-24-observe-after-shot.jpg

[BK's Reef]

pretty sick xsive! i love the coraline growth on the tank

[Sir Patrick]

That is a very bright light!!! Good luck on aranging the color temp you are looking for. Looking forward to what ya come up with!

[MizTanks]

I see more color from the corals in the first pic-like the gsp and some shrooms-the Monti does look brighter in second pic but could that be cause it's closer to the lights then the other corals?

[XSiVE]

I see more color from the corals in the first pic-like the gsp and some shrooms-the Monti does look brighter in second pic but could that be cause it's closer to the lights then the other corals?

There are a few reasons for this:

1. By the time I got the LEDs hung, the halides had been off for about an hour, then when I pulled the fixture down I had to turn the T5's off as well so the corals were well into their typical nighttime routine.

2. The pendants aren't positioned / configured how I want them. Once I lift them off the water a little more and position them to be more centered on each respective side of the tank the spread of light up the sides should be slightly better.. right now both pendants are too close to the center so the sides are lacking light.

Im going to re-hang them tonight, supported by turnbuckles from eye hooks in some 2x4's across the floor joists above. Im also ordering some roller track and rollers (right now in another tab) to hang them from McMaster-Carr.

The monti looks brighter because the light is simply brighter.. I wish I had an apogee to do some tests, but visually you can see how much brighter it is in person.

[XSiVE]

So I decided that since I had my slide rails already ordered it would be silly to re-hang both pendants so I just re-hung the one on the right for purposes of spread testing and color temp adjustment.

nothing exciting about eye bolts and turnbuckles so I didn't take any pics, especially since I will be switching it up in a few days.

First: a word of advice. Be careful if you're adjusting the pots inside of a meanwell driver to set maximum light output. The heat sink by the pots is safe, but the other one is not... as seen below.

http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4615-2/step-25-adjust-drivers.jpg

Yellow tang and blue throat trigger hanging out near the front glass. the bottom rightmost rock in this pic is actually almost touching the right panel of glass and about 2" off the front glass, maybe less.. but you can see how much light is still on something in that far of a corner.

http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4619-2/step-26-check-coverage.jpg

and here's how it looks as a full tank. remember, the left side is still not properly hung, you can tell by how defined the shadow is from the center brace on the left, whereas on the right it is much more hazy.
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4623-2/step-27-check-coverage_amp_color.jpg

I took some macro shots of the frag rack but nothing turned out quite right. :tear: but the corals are adjusting nicely it seems.. The poreites(sp) and some purple/blue acro i got from kee's in particular have significantly more polyp extension compared to under halides.

Im fairly pleased with the color temp I came up with.. but that's personal preference... in any case It's better than the super-purple hue I had yesterday :)
q5 strings are running at 830mA, RB's at 760mA, 50/50's are at 970mA

[adalius]

A live heatsink? Is that because of some modification made for the pots or does it come like that stock? Maybe it's just me, but that sounds like an engineer that needs to get his *** strung up.

[BriGuy31+]

SWEET!! I love the fact that you can change color temps. Any shots with all blues on? Great build!!! And the tank looks great with the new lights. Keep those updates coming..........

[XSiVE]

A live heatsink? Is that because of some modification made for the pots or does it come like that stock? Maybe it's just me, but that sounds like an engineer that needs to get his *** strung up.

the meanwell drivers are in the condition they came from the factory from, the only change i made was turning a pot up or down... Really you probably shouldnt have them open when you have them supplying power but how else are you going to fine-tune current output while they are off?

[XSiVE]

SWEET!! I love the fact that you can change color temps. Any shots with all blues on? Great build!!! And the tank looks great with the new lights. Keep those updates coming..........

Thanks Brian, once I get the pendants on the slide rack, and then we're all done with colin's birthday party arrangements I'll have you over to check them out, see how it looks up close.

[adalius]

the meanwell drivers are in the condition they came from the factory from, the only change i made was turning a pot up or down... Really you probably shouldnt have them open when you have them supplying power but how else are you going to fine-tune current output while they are off?


Exactly why I think the engineer who designed them could use a kick in the pants. Why would you make something that you can only really service while under load right next to a large live metal part? :duh:

[ReeferRob]

Wow man this is one sweet build thread. Im glad to see people moving forward with the DIY LED stuff. I kinda gave up on mine due to current financial woes, that and being a bit nervous to play with electricity!

[XSiVE]

Wow man this is one sweet build thread. Im glad to see people moving forward with the DIY LED stuff. I kinda gave up on mine due to current financial woes, that and being a bit nervous to play with electricity!

Thanks for the compliment. The initial cost is definitely high but long term it should pay off in cost savings and hopefully better coral growth :)

As for playing with electricity, it's not too bad really.. The only thing that hurts is the occasional stupidity of a 110 jolt from an open meanwell. The ~48dcV put out by drivers is just a little tingle, and 10-12v from the wall wart for dimming is nothing at all.

I'll take a pic of the inside of the project box/junction box where all the wiring comes together for the dimming circuit, and post it up this evening. It's not very scary.

[XSiVE]

Welp, I got my roller track in from McMaster-carr... holy cow they ship fast!

I ordered item # 1223A8 plus two additional packs of two rollers each - http://www.mcmaster.com/#roller-tracks/=8axe2i

The floor joists above the tank were positioned perfectly for my needs so I just hung the tracks right from them, then I replaced the little bolt fitting in the wheels with an eye bolt, but before I screwed it in, I cut some 1/8" aluminum bar stock to the length of the fixture then drilled it to line up with the eye bolts on the fixture to let the eye bolts pass through. This aluminum is to ensure the two carriers on each track for each fixture slide together instead of independently.

http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4627-2/step-28-aluminum-guides.jpg

I hung the lights using S-Hooks and turnbuckles, this allows me to do fine adjustments if I need to.

http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4631-2/step-29-install-lights.jpg

Align them the way you want and bam! perfect.

http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4635-2/step-30-align-lights.jpg

[BriGuy31+]

Looking good!!! How high above the tank are they?

[XSiVE]

there is 11" from water surface to emitter. and Im getting excellent coverage, there's no noticable shadow from the center brace now too.

[CalmSeasQuest]

GREAT build Ryan!

One word of caution - It's hard to approximate PAR when visually comparing LEDS to MHs or T5s. I learned the hard way that the Cree LEDS are PAR MONSTERS. They put out MUCH more PAR than similar looking MH/T5s. If you adjust your new LED rig to approximate the appearance of your MHs, you're hitting your tank with significantly more PAR than provided by your 2X 250W MH.

I didn't note what optics you selected, but for reference here are PAR measurements I took under two of my AquaIllumination units (32W, 16B) 48 total LEDS using 40 degree optics running at 100%....

6" - 1650
12" - 1370 (water surface)
16" - 915 (4" water depth)
19" - 690 (7" water depth)
24" - 560 (12" water depth)

Your rig with 72 LEDS will obviously put out even more. I posted more PAR results here (http://www.captivereefs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8268)

It's taken me 6 months to finally figure out the best output and get things acclimated. I currently have the AI suspended 16" above the water and run 45%W, 100%B.

Best bet it to find a PAR meter - I'm a bit far, but I'll let you borrow my Apogee MQ-200 if you're unable to locate one closer.

[XSiVE]

GREAT build Ryan!

One word of caution - It's hard to approximate PAR when visually comparing LEDS to MHs or T5s. I learned the hard way that the Cree LEDS are PAR MONSTERS. They put out MUCH more PAR than similar looking MH/T5s. If you adjust your new LED rig to approximate the appearance of your MHs, you're hitting your tank with significantly more PAR than provided by your 2X 250W MH.

I didn't note what optics you selected, but for reference here are PAR measurements I took under two of my AquaIllumination units (32W, 16B) 48 total LEDS using 40 degree optics running at 100%....

6" - 1650
12" - 1370 (water surface)
16" - 915 (4" water depth)
19" - 690 (7" water depth)
24" - 560 (12" water depth)

Your rig with 72 LEDS will obviously put out even more. I posted more PAR results here (http://www.captivereefs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8268)

It's taken me 6 months to finally figure out the best output and get things acclimated. I currently have the AI suspended 16" above the water and run 45%W, 100%B.

Best bet it to find a PAR meter - I'm a bit far, but I'll let you borrow my Apogee MQ-200 if you're unable to locate one closer.

Thanks for the compliment and also the advice :)

Im using 60 degree optics, and the LEDs are spaced ~2 5/8" apart front to back and 3" apart left to right in a ~15x17 rectangle. It's definitely not very high density compared to how close some others have grouped them, especially like Mike's build.

I'm really not sure how much PAR I was getting with my halides but as you may have noticed I do have a dimmer circuit hooked up so I can tone it down if anything starts to look at all unhealthy.

From the sounds of what you're saying, I think Im going to go downstairs and turn the rigs down to 75% for now until I can get my hands on a PAR meter. I may take you up on the offer to borrow yours.

[XSiVE]

A lesson that I finally learned... dip your corals, QT them for awhile, dip them again.. ugh... though, I dont know how long Ive possibly had this pest, maybe for a long time it was feeding on other things and just recently showed its face in public.

So I was peering into the tank this morning and saw some strange light/white spots on my Tricolor acro... I feared the worst..

http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4658-1/tricolor-bitemarks.jpg

yep those are bite marks from Acro eating flatworms =(

I did some reading and people had a lot of good luck with coral rx, seemingly moreso than other products out there so I picked some up to give it a try..

Took all of my acro's out of the tank and dipped / blasted them in the coral rx solution.. Only the tricolor had any evidence, as a bunch of AEFWs started falling off as soon as it was in the solution. I think I may have seen some eggs on another frag plug but I carefully picked them off.

half-dissolved little bugger. Coralrx literally dissolves these things, its crazy. the corals look pretty good within a few hours of coming out of the dip too, I like this stuff.

http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4656-2/AEFW.jpg

I need to continue a treatment regimen over the next few weeks to be sure I get all the little babies because theres no way I got all the eggs...


by the way, you basically CANNOT see these things when they are on the acro, the only signs will be fatigue of the coral and possibly the little bite marks that I showed here..

I will definitely keep this thread updated in how the treatment goes and if I see a relapse.

[adalius]

That stuffs pretty wicked, and it's insane that it dissolves them, yet it says it's all natural ingredients. Cool that it works. Might have to consider using that if I ever see any problems.

[XSiVE]

That stuffs pretty wicked, and it's insane that it dissolves them, yet it says it's all natural ingredients. Cool that it works. Might have to consider using that if I ever see any problems.

Do yourself a favor and be proactive... No matter what product or method you go with it's easier to treat things as they come in then to have to go back and basically treat everything at once and hope you get the problem taken care of.

[adalius]

I usually am, but I don't have any plans on stocking anything for awhile, so, at this point its just a matter of watching and seeing what comes up.

[Sir Patrick]

Tanks lookin sweet man!!


How about some coral shots??

[XSiVE]

Tanks lookin sweet man!!


How about some coral shots??

LOL I'll take some shots of all of my acro frags sitting in the quarantine / frag tank while they wait for their next coral rx bath :P

[XSiVE]

got my parts in for my LED build for my frag tank, I should have it completed tonight... will post pics.

[shovelhead91701]

Man, what a great build thread..... I wish all of the LED stuff was around when I built my lights....the nerd in me is chomping at the bit to delve into something new but I think my wife would kill me.....lol

I know who to turn to when the time comes though!

[XSiVE]

So as promised, I got this small LED Pendant built tonight.. I fiddled around with mono 1/8" audio jacks thinking I would use them for quick-disconnects then I realized the two contacts werent the ones that had solder points on the back.. ughhh.. oh well.

Once I quit fooling around with quick-disconnects and decided to hard-wire this thing it only took about 2.5 hours to build, maybe less. I guess thats what happens when you only have 8 LEDs, no splash guard, no dimming circuit, no adjoining heat sinks, no frills really, this is a basic pendant to light my frag tank.

http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4668-2/light-test-with-optics.jpg

I estimated that it would hang about 2ft above the frag tank, and with the water so shallow I could easily get away with a lower number of emitters in a more high density package than what I did for my display.

The whites are CREE XP-G with 45 degree optics, the blues are CREE XR-E with 40 degree optics.
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4672-2/light-test-with-optics2.jpg

sorry for the poor quality on this one
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4680-2/unlit.jpg

I used the same fan as I used for my large pendants, mainly because it's silent, moves a good amount of air and only costs $2.99 :)

the completed project:
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4664-2/complete.jpg
Yes, that's cat5, yes I know it seems odd to carry power, but it's only 21W, Im not too concerned but will be keeping an eye on it.


and how it briefly lit the frag tank (without optics) its obviously not in its final position here.. I just stuck it on two pieces of L aluminum to see how the color temp was with the brighter whites than I was used to with my XR-E's on the display. I didnt mount it to the ceiling because I promised someone I would take it to them and show them how nice (and easy) these things are.

http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4676-2/test_over_tank.jpg

[BriGuy31+]

How do you like the XP-Gs? Do you think they are 30% brighter?

[XSiVE]

How do you like the XP-Gs? Do you think they are 30% brighter?

they are definitely brighter by a significant amount.

[XSiVE]

Well, Sir Patrick asked for pics of some corals, I snapped out a few today while I was hanging out.

None of my SPS are really picture-worthy at the moment, Im try go to re-grow everything still, not to mention I've got 16 acro's sitting in my frag tank waiting for their next dip in CoralRx in hopes of eliminating the AEFW issue.

So here's some non-sps, except one.

Acans from Meisen
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4681-1/acan1.jpg

http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4687-2/acan2.jpg

I will do a PIF with these baby plate corals as soon as they are big enough to not get blown around in everybody's current.
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4691-2/babyplates.jpg

Bird of Paradise
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4696-2/BirdofParadise.jpg

currently my favorite Favia
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4700-2/favia.jpg

some beautiful frogspawn I got 1-2 heads from Tal long ago, the pic doesnt do it justice, the tips are more pink
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4704-2/frogspawn.jpg

My Mandarin decided it was going to come out and pose for once, FINALLY a good shot of this thing.
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4708-2/mandarin1.jpg

Im going to let this gsp completely cover the glass on this side, we'll see how far it gets on its own or if I will have to help. ;)
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4717-2/starpolypwall.jpg

[Sir Patrick]

Thx for the new shots!!!

Im in when ya do the PIF! Ive been looking for a nice fungia for a while.

[ETBReefer05]

I will second that motion XSiVE, those frogspawn tips are much more pink IRL :)

[ReeferRob]

I love DIY's, as a matter of fact ripped my fish room/lab apart today and completely re built it. I really want to and very tempted to pull the trigger on a DIY LED kit. Any tips or pointers for a 25x25x25 cube, sticks up top acans and favias down low. Also advice on a solder gun would be helpful!

[cg5071]

Whit is PIF? Also that is cool, all those babies.
What does a simpler led setup like you have run? (in cost)

[fishtal]

Great shot of the Mandarin! I saw the lights in person and they are awesome, quite impressive.

BTW, PIF= Pay it forward. :)

[XSiVE]

I love DIY's, as a matter of fact ripped my fish room/lab apart today and completely re built it. I really want to and very tempted to pull the trigger on a DIY LED kit. Any tips or pointers for a 25x25x25 cube, sticks up top acans and favias down low. Also advice on a solder gun would be helpful!

Yeah, DIY is probably more enjoyable to me than sitting back and enjoying my handywork, I've always gotta have a project.. my next one might be a DIY wave box LOL.. just not sure I like the idea of a big box in my DT ;-)

I can't really suggest anything specific for your cube because I don't know what you're looking for, or the restrictions that you have regarding space, do you need it to dim, what kind of color temp are you looking for... the list goes on ;-)

Im slowly working on a "LED Guide" thread that will have a lot of basic info as to how (in my opinion / experience) to light a tank with LEDs, not just the basics of you need x,y,z, more like a synopsis of how it all comes together and how to apply the basics. I hope to have it done soon and it might be able to help answer some questions like yours.

As for the soldering iron, I strongly suggest getting something that has temperature control, not just wattage control. I picked up a TENMA temperature controlled unit on ebay (refurb or new i couldnt quite tell) for only $60 and love it. It's so much better than the piece of crap radio shack one I used to use.

[XSiVE]

Whit is PIF? Also that is cool, all those babies.
What does a simpler led setup like you have run? (in cost)

Pay it forward, basically I'll just give them away in hopes that the receipients will give something else away, or if theirs dies / spawns babies that those will be given away.

LED setups can vary wildly in cost depending on what you want to do, how nice you want the fixture to look, how deep your tank is, do you want to be able to dim them, etc.. I think a general rule of thumb is probably "about $12 per gallon" I know it seems silly to estimate on gallons but I was just throwing numbers around on what I would need to do to light a different tank and it worked out to around that as well. you could go cheaper, or a lot more expensive depending on what you need.

[XSiVE]

Great shot of the Mandarin! I saw the lights in person and they are awesome, quite impressive.

BTW, PIF= Pay it forward. :)

Thanks Tal, now I just need a mate for it but Im unsure of the pod population and I would rather have one very healthy instead of two kinda healthy.

[ReeferRob]

Yeah, DIY is probably more enjoyable to me than sitting back and enjoying my handywork, I've always gotta have a project.. my next one might be a DIY wave box LOL.. just not sure I like the idea of a big box in my DT ;-)

I can't really suggest anything specific for your cube because I don't know what you're looking for, or the restrictions that you have regarding space, do you need it to dim, what kind of color temp are you looking for... the list goes on ;-)

Im slowly working on a "LED Guide" thread that will have a lot of basic info as to how (in my opinion / experience) to light a tank with LEDs, not just the basics of you need x,y,z, more like a synopsis of how it all comes together and how to apply the basics. I hope to have it done soon and it might be able to help answer some questions like yours.

As for the soldering iron, I strongly suggest getting something that has temperature control, not just wattage control. I picked up a TENMA temperature controlled unit on ebay (refurb or new i couldnt quite tell) for only $60 and love it. It's so much better than the piece of crap radio shack one I used to use.

Thanks for the advice, can't wait for the write up. Maybe we can make it a feature article here on CR!!?
As for restrictions, Im a fiddler so dimming is a must, no restrictions for space, would love a sleek pendant style hanging form ceiling I don't like canopies very much. I like 20k+ look but again dimming would be nice.

[Tom@HaslettMI]

awesome
Great looking tank and very informative LED build. Did you ever have any light acclimation issues with the corals?

Looking forward to the Fungia PIF!


Tom

[XSiVE]

awesome
Great looking tank and very informative LED build. Did you ever have any light acclimation issues with the corals?

Looking forward to the Fungia PIF!


Tom

Thanks Tom; I'd like to get ahold of a PAR meter to check the actual numbers, but I'd guess Im not getting over 500 at the highest levels of rock, but again, thats a guess. I am basing it off of this guy's use of 60 degree optics suspended 12" over the same size tank as I am using, as seen here in post #73. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16974379&postcount=73 He has only 24 LEDs in the array, but they are a lot more tightly arranged, I have 50% more LEDs, but spread over a significantly larger area.

Surprisingly I did not have light acclimation issues with the corals, but that's probably because of a few things.

1. My array is not super-dense, 36 LEDs per side, 72 total over this 4x2x2 tank is on the lower side of "how many sq inches per LED" scale, the recommended is 1 for every 10 to 20, I am at 1 for every 16sq/in. still plenty of light IMO.

2. I was very careful to set the current output of the drivers so I would not be over-driving my arrays. The MeanWell ELN-60-48D's come from the factory with the current setting's maximum dim set to 1500mA, but the recommended current for Cree XR-E's is 700mA to 1A. I was sure to turn down the internal settings to max them out at the values I mentioned earlier in the thread. Anyone who is using these drivers and does not adjust this initial setting (or at least check the drive current) is possibly roasting their corals and cutting the lifespan of their LEDs. Many people just wire things up without checking or adjusting so I'd bet that this could be why some have light acclimation probs.

3. I ran the arrays dimmed to 60% or so for the first few days and slowly ramped up the power. I am currently running 100%, but I feel this gave my corals some time to adjust as I have seen no evidence of bleaching.

This is, of course all anecdotal, and I could be producing less light output than my MH's ever did, but whatever, Im seeing happier corals now than I did before just with the difference in polyp extension alone.

[cg5071]

Thanks. oh! PIF,lol. Ok that is great. I wouldnt mind jumping in either. At one point I was actually hoping that mine would die so I could watch it produce but I just let things take their course.

I am looking at a frag tank also. Probably 20 long or half of a 55. It doesnt need to look purty "yet" Maybe if I was doing one for my main tank which has an ugly light system over it now. I would want a deep blue I guess as I am getting into sps slowly but surely and want them to have nice colors. My main isnt really blue atm since I was growing lps and zoas mostly But will probably change the halide there from a 10k. What do people use for both good growth and bluer color for sps? The halide is over the back of the tank and most of the rock, and I have a couple t5s over the front.

Money of course is important and I am sure I can do most of the work myself. Thanks for the guestimate of cost, and no I dont need it to dim.

[XSiVE]

First glimpse of PAR numbers (Huge** Thanks to Tom, CalmSeasQuest for letting me borrow the meter!) I will have much more detailed analysis over the next few days.

This is a graph of the light level at about 1cm below the water surface. Think of the bottom, flat section of the graph as a "slice" of my water column, The X-axis (labeled A-I) is the front glass, Z-axis is the side glass, labeled in 6 inch measurements relative to the front glass.
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4750-2/PAR-Plot-water-surface.jpg

Im very happy with the initial findings. It's nothing like ZOMG SO MUCH LIGHT, but when you think about it you realistically dont need much, if any more light than Im pumping into the display to keep everything you could ever want. Sure the 1cm below water surface on a hawaiian reef is something like 1600-2000 PAR but most of the biodiversity happens at significantly lower light levels.


Side note: Im getting ~150-250PAR on the rack, 400? at the water surface in my frag tank with only 8 emitters, going to add 4 more emitters to that pendant so I can have it more focused on growth for SPS either before they go into the display, or after they get clipped and get to wait for sale. I'll have solid data on the frag tank tomorrow.

[XSiVE]

More PAR graphs

this time a little easier to read.

http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4767-2/PAR-Plot-1cm.jpg

http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4771-2/PAR-Plot-6in.jpg

In these next two, if the reading was not up against the front glass, and in the 0-50 range, Live Rock was in the way of getting the sensor to the point where the reading was supposed to be taken.

http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4759-2/PAR-Plot-12in.jpg


http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4763-2/PAR-Plot-18in.jpg

[CalmSeasQuest]

Great job on all the plotting Ryan! You'll have to show me how - all done in Excel?

[XSiVE]

I took 45 measurements (if the rock was not in the way) on each plane.

I actually started with this grid on the front of the tank. Every 6 inches top to bottom left to right. I may try to somehow overlay the graphs onto this image to make a 3D representation but it doesn't really make much difference since I have a pretty good idea what Im getting for PAR numbers and where..

And yes, in the bottom of the pic my Mandarin is nearly as big as my Tennenti Tang :silly:

http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4775-2/tankgrid.jpg

I just put all of the measurements into excel in a grid (with labels) exactly as they were laid out while measuring so I had nine by five cells worth of measurements and then created a surface graph with the subtype of contour, formatted the legend to deal in 50's instead of 200's and it was happy.

I can email you the xls file, or bring it by on a flash drive when I bring the apogee back.

[jolson10450]

I took 45 measurements (if the rock was not in the way) on each plane.

I actually started with this grid on the front of the tank. Every 6 inches top to bottom left to right. I may try to somehow overlay the graphs onto this image to make a 3D representation but it doesn't really make much difference since I have a pretty good idea what Im getting for PAR numbers and where..

And yes, in the bottom of the pic my Mandarin is nearly as big as my Tennenti Tang :silly:

http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4775-2/tankgrid.jpg

I just put all of the measurements into excel in a grid (with labels) exactly as they were laid out while measuring so I had nine by five cells worth of measurements and then created a surface graph with the subtype of contour, formatted the legend to deal in 50's instead of 200's and it was happy.

I can email you the xls file, or bring it by on a flash drive when I bring the apogee back.

excited to see this grid measurement! i am going to order my 3 led sytem for the 5.5g either the end of this week or beginning of next!

[XSiVE]

So I added 4 LEDs to my frag tank, Im now getting 400 PAR at the center of the frag rack with it tapering down to 50 at the side glass, I did this on purpose so I could keep lower-light corals off to the sides and anything high-light in the center so I can get proper growth :) woot!

[XSiVE]

Livestock Update:

I've gotten a few pieces plus taken some pics of stuff I've had for a little while.

GARF purple bonsai:
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4832-2/IMG_8317.jpg

Lunar Eclipse:
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4776-1/orange-rim-zoa.jpg

Green Slimer:
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4836-2/IMG_8330.jpg

Tennenti Tang:
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4841-2/IMG_8336.jpg

20K Lokani Acro (obviously needs some time to color up)
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4846-2/IMG_8341.jpg

Hollywood Stunner
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4850-2/IMG_8347.jpg

unknown yellow zooanthids
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4786-2/yellowzoas.jpg

[XSiVE]

Well I got my vortech today which means the Koralia's had to come out...

now I've got this rock wall with two holes in it where the koralia's were mounted. It's always been something of a love/hate with the rock wall. I love the way it looks at times, but I hate how majano's or bubble algae can stick to it so easily and grow there. also fish can occasionally get stuck behind it.

I think Im going to pull it out and re-aquascape. Pics later (or tomorrow if the water doesnt clear up)

[cg5071]

That tang is sweet! Sometime in the future I think I need to place another order w/ Garf. Stonys instead of softies this time. I always see the bonsai, does anyone know what other cool stuff they have? I know they have alot.

[XSiVE]

http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4858-2/FTSwithproperColor.jpg

FINALLY got the white balance / exposure / tint adjusted correctly to the pic represents what the LEDs look like to the naked eye, it really takes a bit of adjustment since every shot from the camera looks somehow too washed out or somehow purple.. what a pain.

What do you all think of my new aquascape?

Also, I need some ideas on what to do on the back of the tank.. Im open to a lot of ideas since I can get behind it and do whatever needs to be done.

[XSiVE]

the newest addition to the tank:

http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4923-2/IMG_8424.jpg


and my blue throat was showing off so I had to take a pic of him too :)

http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/4919-2/IMG_8425.jpg

[Sir Patrick]

Ya got a potters angel???


Very nice bluethroat! How big is it? Looks small, which is hard to find!

[XSiVE]

Ya got a potters angel???


Very nice bluethroat! How big is it? Looks small, which is hard to find!

Yep, im a little concerned as it has not eaten food out of the water column, but it has been grazing off the rocks no problem..

My blue throat is probably 5" or so, really friendly little bugger... i play a petting game with him when its time to feed.. he comes to the top of the water and follows my fingers like hes gonna eat them.. then i try to touch him and he continuously swims backward to try to keep my hand infront of him.. though as soon as more than just a fingerprint is in the water he doesnt try to bite it LOL

[Sir Patrick]

Hows your tank doing???

[cg5071]

Sir, you running around bumping everyones tank thread this morning? lol

[XSiVE]

Since I've been away I've had mixed fortunes.. I had a little electrical quirk where a GFCI popped and shut down my pumps for almost 24 hours.. I had some fish die (potter's and 6 line) but most everything survived.

My good fortune is that I didn't really mess with the tank inhabitants for 9 months so things were left to grow on their own... the only bad part about that is I didnt maintain levels well enough so I think things didnt grow as quickly as they could.

That being said, on to some pics of what I'm proud of.

Blue (Cali? because of the green?) Tort:
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/5112-2/calitort.jpg


ORA German blue polyp Acropora:
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/5118-2/GermanBlue.jpg


Maxima Clam (Diver's Den). I had some pyramid snail issues but got them taken care of with a little work.
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/5128-1/IMG_8689.jpg


Crazy colored Acan (I thought this was a total dud when I got it so it sat on the sand bed and didnt move since the last ann arbor swap):
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/5132-1/IMG_8692.jpg


And last but not least, all of the polyps from last year's grow out contest:
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/5123-2/growout.jpg

[demonclownfish]

dammmmmm that acan is freakin sweet!!!!!!

[XSiVE]

full-rez pictures available here: 9-2-2011 update (http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/v/fish/9-2-11-update/)

[larryandlaura]

Awesome tank!

[XSiVE]

double post

[XSiVE]

oops, forgot the yellow tort pic I took... I've got lots more corals of course but these are the few that grew the most over the past few months
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/5136-1/yellowtort.jpg

but i love my torts :)

[larryandlaura]

I love that yellow tort! I bet it glows!

[MizTanks]

Beautiful corals XSiVE.

[jimsflies]

Got any updated full tank shots for us, Ryan?

[XSiVE]

I'll get a FTS once my turf scrubber picks up its duties and starts starving the GHA that's currently in the display.

So some updates (will have pics tonight)
I re-created my small algae turf scrubber that was working extremely poorly in its own tank / setup, I was running it off the overflow from my 10g frag tank, unfortunately I had to run so much flow (about 300gph) into that tank that it was taking away from the water that should be going to the display, also that much flow through a 3/4" standpipe was causing a lot of noise and still was not enough water for the ATS.
Last night I did some re-working of the plumbing off the display and routed one of the two overflows through the ATS. I'm getting a lot more flow to the screen and now it's virtually silent.

I've also almost entirely stopped dosing vodka. I think this is actually the source of my recent algae bloom.. as the bacteria that were feeding off the vodka & nutrients die off, I expected some measurable spike in overall nutrient levels and it looks like the ATS at only 3 weeks mature (isnt growing solid enough algae yet) plus my skimmer couldn't take all of it in so I've got a bit of a fight on my hands right now... Manual removal is helping for the GHA, but the devil-weed bryopsis is not so easy... hopefully that will get out-competed soon too.

Another thing is that my heater controller went on the fritz and the tank jumped to 84 degrees the other day. Luckily I caught it, now running without a controller on 2 heaters which I don't feel safe about so I ordered an Apex Jr. to keep that under control and send me some alerts if things get out of whack.

[MizTanks]

I feel for you XSiVE. Even the mention of GHA makes me cringe...brings back my own battles with that stuff and then it was in my lil 8g..the tank of hair :hypnotized: You'll win the battle though for sure:thumbsup:

[XSiVE]

New toy!

http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/5163-2/2011-09-22_2023_28_50.jpg

Algae scrubber working like a champ, just passed the 3 week old mark for the screen.

http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/5173-2/2011-09-22_2023_27_29.jpg

I have the scrubber plumbed into one of the overflows on the display, it's getting around 400gph through it and it's lit with just under 100W(actual) of CFL. In this video it's got about 3 days worth of algae built up on it, the crazy part is that it had the same amount at 7 days last week.. it's really taking off now that I changed the water flow on it.

video to come.

[XSiVE]

Here's the video of the algae turf scrubber in action.

Week 3 to 4 algae screen - YouTube

[MizTanks]

Guess I'm gonna need to research what exactly an "algae scrubber" is right? :) or would you be willing to explain it to me? Please :)

[XSiVE]

No problem I'll explain it.

What it is:
an algae turf scrubber or ATS is a medium for algae to grow on and be easily exported from the aquarium, it causes a high amount of air/water exchange as well as massive surface area for light on the medium to promote maximum algae growth.

What it involves:
In the case of mine, which is built around a relatively standard model involves the listed materials:
-"plastic canvas" - purchased from any craft store, roughed up like crazy with a hole saw so it is no longer smooth and the algae can hold on to it and grow. Sized at approximately 1 sq inch per gallon of display.
-PVC pipe with a 1/8" slot cut in it for the screen to insert into (1 inch PVC in my case)
-Zip Ties to hold the screen in the pipe
-CFL lights ~1 (actual) watt per gallon of aquarium
-Water flow from the display's overflow (many people run a separate pump for their scrubber to get more consistent flow)

What you do:
-Run the lights on the screen (about 4" away) for 18 hours a day on, 6 hours off, preferably outside the normal lit time of your display to avoid large pH swings.
-Rinse the screen with fresh water and scrape the algae off every 7 days.
-Replace CFL bulbs after 3 months.

An algae scrubber is one of the best natural nutrient export methods available. Many people run them instead of a skimmer but I don't think I'll be doing that any time soon.

There are more designs out there and mine is relatively simple. Some people get 1-2 CUPS of dried algae a week on their scrubbers, these things will out-compete a refugium, and typically consume all of the nutrients that the nuisance algae in your display is trying to get ahold of.

[larryandlaura]

Sweet new toy!

[XSiVE]

Sweet new toy!

Yeah I've been having too much fun with it, Im already thinking about how I can get the best use out of an expansion module :)

[XSiVE]

Did a ~20gal water change tonight and I thought that this coral looked pretty cool at "Low Tide"

thing is, it sort of looks better OUT of water than in! lol!

http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/5185-2/cali_low_tide.jpg

[Heidi]

Sweet acro! Man that is a nice tank Ryan :)

Heidi

[MizTanks]

Very unusual picture an now one of my favorites :) very sweet shot Ryan. Thanks too for the explanation. I know more today then I did yesterday :)

[larryandlaura]

Sweet coral!

[XSiVE]

So I made some changes to one of my two LED pendants in an attempt to get some more natural color rendering, more red and less washed out purple.. I left the other pendant for a comparison. Both started with 18 Cool white, 18 Royal Blue Cree XR-E LEDs and the modifications to one of them are as follows:


12 Royal Blue (the original XRE's running at about 750mA)
8 Blue (new XPE running at about 750mA)
4 Warm white (new XRE running at about 750mA)
6 Neutral White (new XPG running at about 500mA)
6 Cool White (the original XRE running at about 500mA)

So I've unfortunately "wasted" about 18 of my original CW & RB XRE LEDs in this new configuration but wow I love the color difference.
The new configuration is a crisp white, warmer light but still plenty of blue for that unnatural pop that we love Looking up at the water surface from the front of the tank the unmodified pendant is that drab purplish washed out color, the new just looks white. I'll see if I can get some pictures that show the difference though I doubt it will be very visible.

[larryandlaura]

Can't wait to see the new pics!

[XSiVE]

As suspected, it's hard to really get a picture to show the difference you can see with the naked eye. Even shooting in raw and matching the settings exactly after the fact it's still tough so I've got a single coral, and a FTS.

CW+RB only, left - New combo right for both pics.
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/5193-1/PinkMille.jpg


I think the FTS you can tell a little better since it was forced to shoot them together, so you can see the left is more of that sort of purple-ish washed out tone. *shrug* only so much you can do with a camera, even with manual settings :(
http://ryanensminger.com/gallery/d/5192-2/FTS.jpg

[Sir Patrick]

Diggin the new light combo. Bet its a bit easier to shoot?