Teach me some basics PLZ

[ReeferRob]

I admit, I don't know as much as I should by now. But hopefully you can help me with that!

Eleven months ago I purchase an RO/DI unit from Melevsreef.com.

What are some good ways to protect my investment in the unit?

How often should I replace the filtering media? And do you have recommendations (who,what, where) on replacement media?

Do you recommend or suggest flush kits?

I know I had more questions, but there escaping me right now..........

[Myteemouse]

I would strongly suggest a flush kit so the water sitting on your membrane for long periods of time can build up and cause it to slow down production and quality and life of the membrane.
Also a pressure gauge is your friend, you can see the pressure drop and know you need to change filters..
also I change mine (filters not membrane) every 6 months or so or when the pressure drops..
I get my replacement filters from BULK REEF SUPPLY.

[ReeferRob]

I would strongly suggest a flush kit so the water sitting on your membrane for long periods of time can build up and cause it to slow down production and quality and life of the membrane.
Also a pressure gauge is your friend, you can see the pressure drop and know you need to change filters..
also I change mine (filters not membrane) every 6 months or so or when the pressure drops..
I get my replacement filters from BULK REEF SUPPLY.

You get the pressure gauges from BRS too? Were do you install it? I am assuming after all the filters.

[Myteemouse]

I got the presure gague from "THEFILTERGUYS>BIZ..
it goes after the first three stages (if thats the size you have) and before the membrane..

[Chelle's Ocean]

Do you use BRS alot, Rob? What about itunes?
I catch the podcasts on itunes, have them downloaded right to my computer and then put some on my ipod. Here is the fish channel link:
http://www.fishnetwork.tv/fishnetwork/AmericanReef/American_Reef.html
These guys are great ! Russell & Gary are wonderful. The shows are informative, and they don't mind emails or phone calls with questions, comments, concerns,etc.
I know they have a spotlight on a RO unit, I just have to go through all the saved podcasts and find the right one. I will send it to you. (I like watching the videos and seeing the outcome on certain things I am going to try, especially the fragging duncans they did- haha we talked ALOT about that one!)
Anyway- you might want to watch the vid if you haven't seen them already.:highfive3:

[adalius]

It wouldn't hurt you to have a TDS monitor as well. They're not terribly expensive and when I had my RO/DI unit years ago I could compare water in to water out to make sure it was producing what it should be.

Also, I don't know if this applies to RO/DI but I know it does to straight RO units, when an RO unit shuts off it does have some bypassing where "foul" water seeps through the membrane since there's no movement through it. If you use it to fill your entire tank, you won't notice it since it'll be a few drops at the start. Where it becomes an issue is with auto top offs. If it's on a straight float valve setup, it will basically just be trickling a little water in until the float closes. Since it's cycling a little bit over and over and over, with the first couple drops being fouled, it can cause a noticeable increase in everything you're hoping to remove. It'll still be better than straight tap, mind you, just not the 99.9% or whatever your filter says it'll remove.

I don't *know* that this will be an issue since the DI should catch it, it might exhaust it that little bit faster, but it shouldn't be much. It's still something good to remember if you ever run a straight RO though.

[AZDesertRat]

The most important things for properly maintaining a RO or RO/DI system are regular filter changes at 6 month intervals, disinfecting the system at that time and making sure the waste ratio is at 4:1.
The pressure gauge and TDS meter suggestions are also good, they are the only way you have of telling prefilter and carbon block condition in the case of the pressure gauge, and membrane and resin conditions in the case of the TDS meter.

You change the prefilter and carbon block every 6 months like clockwork as they are there to protect the expensive RO membrane. Contrary to what some may think, they have very little to absolutely no effect on final TDS, they remove TSS or suspended solids, big stuff like particulates and sediments as well as chlorine which will melt a RO membrane. 6 months is a good interval if you use high quality replacement filters, if you use ebay quality filters it may be more often than that as many do not have the capacity for chlorine or sediments as good filters do. I buy all my replacement filters from Spectrapure and they are on sale here:http://www.spectrapure.com/email/customer-appreciation.html

I use the 0.2 or 0.5 micron prefilter as it does the best job of protecting the billions of tiny pores in the 0.5 micron carbon block. I do not use two carbons as this is old old technology going back to the days when carbon was not as refined or developed as it is today. Some vendors still use high micron prefilters, 5 or 10 microns, which forces the first carbon to act as a secondary prefilter, what a waste since carbon is more expensive than a good prefilter and needs to have its pores open to work. If the pores are fouled or plugged with particulates and colloidal materials, many vendors don't even know about colloidals and the problems they cause, the carbon is worthless for adsorbing chlorine and volatiles.

Flush kits are a waste of money. As long as you maintain the proper 4:1 waste ratio you are doing the best you can for your membrane flushing. For a flush kit to be the least bit worthwhile you would need to operate your system manually, no autoshutoff valve or solenoids filling a top off container or pressure tank with RO only. You must open the flush valve each and every time you shut the unit off to eliminate the higher TDS water surrounding the membrane in order for it to be effective. If you miss a time or two its too late and the slids have begun to solidify of the membrane and will get worse with time. Flushing on start up has no value and if your system is automated like many of us who fill a top off reservoir or Brute can you never know hen the system is starting and stopping so cannot flush.

Use your money elsewhere like converting that extra empty canister you will have where the unneeded carbon used to be into a second DI which will give you value. Dual DI is a good investment and is relatively inexpensive if you already have the 10" canister, a few john guest fittings and a refillable cartridge and you are set.

Use the TDS meter on a regular basis and monitor tap water TDS, RO only TDS and final RO/DI TDS to check the condition of both your membrane and your DI resin. Many people only look at the RO/DI TDS and could be burning through DI resin quickly because of a borderline RO membrane. To give you an idea how important RO only TDS is, did you know for every 2% decrease in RO efficiency your DI resin life is cut in HALF? That is significant. Improving a RO membrane from 90% like the Dow Filmtec 100GPD up to 96-98% like the 75 GPD Dow would really pay for itself in DI resin savings. Or installing one of the Spectrapure Select membranes in that sale flyer which are guaranteed in writing to be better than 98% rejection would soon pay for itself at $40 when you can double your DI life over a 96 or 97% membrane. You really need to know how well your membrane is working as it affects your long term operating and overall cost of ownership. My Select membrane is operating at over 99.35% rejection rate and has been that since day one over 18 months ago. My DI life is tremendous even in Phoenix with a tap TDS of between 600 and 800.

[ReeferRob]

Very informative AZ, thank you very much.
That Spectrapure web site if very nice, but a bit pricey. I was gonna get the BRS pack until I compared the micron number in the sediment and carbon blocks. Now Im not sure what Im gonna do.

[adalius]

I just picked up one of these:
http://filterdirect.com/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=29

For the price I couldn't say no, plus it's got a 1:3 rejection rate which is even better than the typical 1:4.

[AZDesertRat]

The CSP-DI on sale is cheapre than any unit BRS has and is much better quality.

The Filters Direct units use low end filters so the membrane life and DI will suffer accordingly. The cost of ownership ends up being much more in time, about three times higher in fact according to test results.
Don't fall for the 3:1 waste ratio, ALL membranes should be flushed at 4:1 if you espect them to last. FD has some really deceiving sales pitches, for one their numbers never seem to add up. I try not to bash a product but they realy need to stik to drinking water systems or els do a lot of research and improve their systems for reef quality standards.

[ReeferRob]

What is the rest of the CR community using in the RO/DI units? I see the value in the Spectrapure products but money is beyond tight right now and the BRS seem like a waste of money in comparison. The Melevreef filters are right in the middle price wise but he has zero info on them on the site. I actually bought my system from him so Im leaning that direction but still thinking it over......

[ReeferRob]

AZ, I only can pop for $50 bucks right now. Would it be wise to only replace my sediment filter, carbon block and DI canister? This would leave one canister empty until I can afford to buy a second one per your suggestion as well as the membrane.
Now that I think about it more, it would be stupid to pass up the great sale deal on the membrane. That is unless they run this sale often and I can get it again in the near future. (My current Melev unit is only 8-9 months old) aarrgh, what to do what to do!!?

[AZDesertRat]

The Spectrapure CSP-DI is only $145 brand new and guaranteed, not sure why someone would think that is expensive when comparable units start at aroung $200 with fewer features or lower quality filters?
Thats with a dual inline TDS meter, inline pressure gauge, treated and tested RO membrane, capillary tube flow restrictor, 0.5 micron prefilter and carbon block andcustom blended DI resin.

Marc's (Melev) RO/DI is a good unit just a little different. It uses a 100GPD GE membrane which is equal to an off the shelf Dow Filmtec 75 GPD membrane in all respects. Have you tested your rejection rate to see what it is and if you need to replace it?Your tap water and RO only TDS numbers will tell you this. The TDS meter will also tell you if the DI needs replacing.

If the prefilter and carbon is older than 6 months then yes they need replacing. I would get a 0.5 micron prefilter and a 0.5 micron carbon block then replumb the extra carbon canister as a second DI. It takes about $5 in parts to do so. If the rejection rate is less than say 96% I would think about a new membrane if your tap water TDS is very high and you make much water, DI starts adding up quickly and soon exceeds the cost of a membrane.

Whereever you buy the replacement filters get at least a 1 micron prefilter or smaller and a single 0.6 or 0.5 micron carbon block. You will not find DI resins comparable to Spectrapures anywhere as they have a long term testing facility in their shop and test every resin on the market before blending their own in house. They tell me the resin is usually blended and sealed the day theyship it so it is not prepackaged or sitting on a shelf somewhere. Resin has an unopened shelf life of about 6 months even when packed and stored properly and less than that once opened so it watch where you buy it. If you buy in bulk, once opened use a seal a meal vacuum device if possible to reseal it or at a minimum two zip loc storage bags with a little RO/DI water mixed in the resin to keep it moist then placed in the back of the refirgerator so it stays cool.

[ReeferRob]

Okay, AZ going with your recommendations. I tried once a week ago but the check out cart failed, froze and the transaction never went through. I called but customer support put me on hold for 5 minutes. I don't have time for that. But Im gonna give them another shot even though they just put me on hold again..........ergh!
So Im gonna try again right now.
Im gonna get one SpectraSelect Membrane, does it mater which gpd I get? Looks like I need a flow restrictor two, any insight there?
Im gonna get one .5 sediment filter and one .5 carbon block.
Now to follow through with your suggestions to have 2 DI resin chambers, what else exactly do I need?
I am assuming 2 MaxCap Cartridges, or do you suggest a different product.
Also would be extremely helpful if you could clue me into what Gusset fittings I need and how to change it up.

Thanks a million!!


Okay, back for mo

[AZDesertRat]

Get the 90 GPD membrane, it makes the same high quality water as all the others but much faster. Yes you need a matched flow restrictor for $5.

The MaxCap DI is intended to be used in front of another mixed bed DI cartridge such as the SilicaBuster, it should never be used alone or after another DI as it is a roughing filter or prefilter if you think of it like that.

Its been awhile so you need to refresh my memory as to what you have now, a photo would really help to to identify fittings and placements. Basically its a matter of replumbing a canister to turn it into a second DI such as a second carbon unneeded carbon canister. Its usually as easy as unscrewing the nipple connecting the last carbon canister, rotating it 90 degrees and installing john guest type quick connectors where the nipple once was so the one carbon now leads up to the membrane then back down to the rotated DI canister.

[ReeferRob]

Get the 90 GPD membrane, it makes the same high quality water as all the others but much faster. Yes you need a matched flow restrictor for $5.

The MaxCap DI is intended to be used in front of another mixed bed DI cartridge such as the SilicaBuster, it should never be used alone or after another DI as it is a roughing filter or prefilter if you think of it like that.

Its been awhile so you need to refresh my memory as to what you have now, a photo would really help to to identify fittings and placements. Basically its a matter of replumbing a canister to turn it into a second DI such as a second carbon unneeded carbon canister. Its usually as easy as unscrewing the nipple connecting the last carbon canister, rotating it 90 degrees and installing john guest type quick connectors where the nipple once was so the one carbon now leads up to the membrane then back down to the rotated DI canister.

Thanks man, called and spoke with the tech dude yesterday and he got me all set up with everything but the john guest fittings. Im off to work right now, but Ill post pics tonight and you can take a peak at what I have and need to do. Sounds pretty easy/straight forward. Oh, forgot to mention that I popped for the Dual TDS meter, not sure where to fit that into the new set up.

[AZDesertRat]

I went back and see yo uahve one of Marc's RO/DI systems. You will unscrew the three lids from the top bracket, unscrew the nipple between the two carbon canisters, unscrew and reinstall the 90 degree quick fitting from the last canister to the downstream side of the middle one facing to the back then connect this to the membrane housing using the existing 1/4" tube back in the same 90 degree elbow. Buy and install two quick fittings and install them in the loose lid then rotate it 90 degrees and reattach to the housing with the fittings facing front and back, making sure the OUT is facing the front. Connect the line from the treated RO to this canister first then into the second DI canister from there.
The inline TDS meter will have two tees with the probes installed, place the IN tee and probe after the RO membrane and before the first DI and the second or OUT probe in the final treated water line.
One word of caution, the MaxCap will exhaust before the SilicaBuster so you need a way to monitor its condition. If you have a handheld TDS meter I would install a tee with a ball valve as asample port between the two DI canisters and make it a point to test the MaxCap only TDS monthly if not more often and change the MaxCap when you start seeing signs of TDS, this way the SilicaBuster will last through three MaxCap cartridges or more before you see any evidence of TDS in the finished water.
This is why the MaxCap systems come standard with two dual inline TDS meters so you can monitor the condition of each individual component.

[ReeferRob]

Received my goodies today! I won't have time to mod for the second DI canister but am in desperate need of a water change. Would there be any ill side effects if I were to leave one canister empty add all the new media and make up a few gallons? Do I need to make a few gallons and pitch it first or is it okay to use it right from the get go? Will I notice or need to prepare for anything different with the new media and set up?

[AZDesertRat]

Leaving a canister empty for now is fine.
You should always flush your new filters.
Start by removing all the filters then disconnect the 1/4" line leading from the carbon up to the RO membarne housing at the RO end. Add two or three tablespoons of regular unscented bleach to the first or prefilter canister and screw the empty housings back on. Open the feed water and flush the chlorine through the system until it starts to come out the disconnected line then let it sit 3 to 5 minutes. Flush it until the scent disappears then remove only the prefilter housing and install the new filter. Flush this for several minutes to remove any glues or binders, next install the carbon block and flush out and dust or carbon fines.
Now reconnect to the RO membarne and let 'er rip.
If you are replacing the DI too then flush it until you see 0 TDS, resins are packed in a solution to keep them fresh.

[ReeferRob]

So hows this look so far. Red line (untreated water) comes in from the right first entering the sediment filter then going on to the carbon. I then splits off and goes through the membrane, which then comes down in the blue line. Black waste line of to the drain. Blue line enters DI canister then Silcate canitster where I have a ball valve for the collection barrel. There is also a T now after the membrane before the last two canisters.
I will soon add the ASO and float value as well.
So how does that look? I just roughed it out tonight still want to trim lines add stuff and mount. I didn't need to go get any additional hardware either! Just used what was already on the unit, just changed the order up a bit. I still need to figure out where the dual TDS meters should go and how I want to mount the thing to the wall. Tomorrow Im going to get some bleach cause Im out and get these things running.
Oh, one last thing do they install or put the flow restrictor on the membrane for me? I didn't find anything else in the box other than the five different canisters. Also the inside of the membrane bag was full of water is this normal?
http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/ad286/bluedragon1_2/IMG_3078.jpg

[AZDesertRat]

The flow restrictor goes in the waste line, if you bought one from Spectrapure it will be shipped untrimmed and loose. It will look like a piece of spaghetti with a small flange on one end which inserts inside the waste line. After flushing the system you will test the waste ratio according to their directions then trim the restrictor with a new single edge razor blade for an exact 4:1 waste ratio.

Spectrapure has good plumbing directions on their site under the Tech Support section, you can download one of them and follow all the lines and color conventions.

If you have one dual inline TDS meter place the IN probe after the RO membrane but before the DI and the OUT probe after the final DI so you get RO TDS and RO/DI TDS. If you have two meters then install one IN probe after the carbon/before the RO, the OUT probe after the RO, the other IN probe after the first DI and the OUT probe after the final DI so you can monitor each DI independently.

Spectrapure is the only manufacturer or vendor I am aware of that treats all their RO membranes with a special wet process, bench tests them for performance then ships them wet in a sealed bag. All others I am aware of ship dry off the shelf untreated and untested membranes. The treatment process is said to produce an extra 1 to 2% rejection rate and with their Select series they guarantee the performance in writing. To put that in perspective, that 2% increase DOUBLES the life of your DI resin no matter what resin you use.