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Calcium and PH Issues : Help needed


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  1. #1
    Registered User
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    Oct 2005
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    fowlerville, mi
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    Default Calcium and PH Issues : Help needed

    Ok, I am new to saltwater. Being crazy I setup a 480 gallon reef with an additional 100 gallon sump as my first tank. All is going well except one issue : I can;t get my calcium high enough.
    I am currently running a kalkreactor (deltec) and a kalkwasser dosing unit (deltec) into my sump. I can get my calcium to about 380 and KH at 11-12, but the PH is low at 7.9-7.95 If I crank up the kalkreactor any, I don;t ggain anything on the calcium levels, and the PH drops more.
    The issue seems to be I don't have enough evaporation to dose ro/DI top-off through the kalkwasser at a large enough rate. As an experiment, I made a 2.5 gallon jug of saturated calcium hydroxide solution up and dripped it into the tank over a 24 hr period. It almost worked in that my PH went to 8.05 and my Calcium went to 410, both just a bit lower than I wanted. I figured that the 2.5 gallons I dripped was offsetting my evaporation and I hence got less RO/DI water to purge through my kalkwasser. If Ic ould dose this much more calcium hydroxide without reducing mykalkwasser, I think it would work great.
    Also, what I don't want is to make up a 2.5 gallon jug everyday, I'm lazy. O, and I don't have room to put a 50 gallon tank over my sump for dripping calcium hydroxidem and that would defeat the purpose of automatically dosing anyways.
    Is there a way to get more flow through my kalkwasser? I would need to create another 2-3 gallons per day of evaporation to do this.
    is there a system or dosing unit out there that will does straight calcium hydroxide powder to my sump? If I am dosing liquid, it offsets my evaporation and reduces the kalkwasser efficiency also.

    John

  2. #2
    davejnz - Reefkeeper CR Member
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    Sep 2004
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    Daytona Bch,FL
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    Default

    Let me get this straight,you have a kalk reactor and your PH is low.That is very odd as kalkwasser is extrmely alkaline and i've never heard anyone experience low PH when using it.The fact that when you dial up the reactor,you PH drops even more is even more puzzling.My first guess,is that your tank is not getting enough flow/aeration to drive off the CO2 that lowers PH at night.This can be easily fixed by adding more flow and using an airstone at night.The easiest way to get more evaporation is by using fans blowing in the sump and display.I would imagine a 480gal reef would evaporate at least 4-5gal per day.De-humidifiers are another way to get more evaporation.Adding more flow in the tank will help as well,especially at the surface.Raising temps to 80-81 will also help.
    There is a way to dose kalk powder(Kalkwasser is just the German term for Calcium Hydroxide)You can make a slurry with it and slowly add it to the sump(before the lights come on) in an area of high water flow.I've never used a kalk reactor,I've always just gravity fed kalkwater to a float-valve in the sump.If it were me,I'd get your alk back down to 9dKH and your Cal to 420ppm,and get your PH up to 8.2 with whatever product you desire.After that,try to dial in the reactor and the evaporation rate to maintain those values.

  3. #3
    Whoyah - Reefkeeper CR Member
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    Sep 2004
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    Grants Pass, OR
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    1,267

    Default

    73stang,

    What do you have in the tank? The parameters you have a decent for just about everything beside sps. Also how and when are you measuring your pH?

  4. #4
    Registered User
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    Oct 2005
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    fowlerville, mi
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    Default

    Thanks for the responses, let me try to answer further.
    Yes, i am running a kalkreactor and a kalkwasser unit and the calcium is still low. The kalkreactor has a low PH coming out of it, about 6.4-6.7 which is where it is supposed to be. The problem is it cannot maintain a high enough calcium for this size of a tank. I can crank the flow up through the reactor, but that drops the Ph in the tank and still does not get the calcium where I want it. Hence the reason we added the kalkwasser unit. This did bring my calcium up to about 380, but the ph is still a bit low, I need to get more flow through the kalkwasser to get both the ph and calcium up.

    My lfs has similar issues on the bigger tanks, they end up dosing by hand ona daily basis. I do not want to dose every day into the sump as I am trying to avoid this and keep it more automated and as maintenance free as possible.

    As for evaporation, those are good suggestions. I have 8 fans built into my canopy that I can turn on to run across the top of the water. I think part of it is my tank is covered on top, I have thin acrylic sheets over the openings to prevent fish from jumping out. This prevents evaporation fom the heat of the lights also though. Perhaps drilling a bnch of small holes in these would help? Or is there another way to cover these like with a plastic screen or something?

    I could bump the temp up slightly, but everything seems to be doing well, I keep my chiller set at 78 right now.

    Items in the tank:
    Plenty of fish, cleaner shrimp, blood shrimp, crabs/snails,all doing very well. 4 anemones : purple tip, rose bulb, two carpets, all doing well. As for coral I have several tridacna clams, (doing great), hammer and frogspawn (doing great), a couple ofgonipora, pocillapora, and 2-3 other SPS(doing great), and sinulara (SP?)/zoas/ricordia (all doing great), o and a toadstool coral doing very well.

    I have trouble with birdsnest staying viable for more than a few weeks, and montipora undata or caps. Not sure if this is a pH issue or not. Also have troube with open brains not lasting very long.

    Tanks is pretty good overall, just trying to perfect it. It is very stable so working well, but not quite ideal on the ca and PH. I am measuring the ph with two seperate monitors, and I do a hand test and also an electronic probe for the calcium.

  5. #5
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    Default

    Forgot to mention. I do have a dehumidifier I run in the room, but not 24/7 due to electrical bill. The only current evaporation area is the sump since the tank is pretty well a closed system.

  6. #6
    Reptoreef - Reefkeeper CR Member
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    are you sure you have a kalkwasser reactor and not a calcium reactor??? A calcium reactor should have an effluent ph of the mid 6. range, but the ph effluent of a kalkwasser reactor should be around 12.5 and dosed to match your overall daily evaporation. To get things in check and tweaked in, you must first get your levels proper and then dose accordingly to your demands on the calcium reactor.
    There's nowhere else I'ld rather be... unless, of course, you're buying

  7. #7
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    Yes, I have both a kalkwasser unit AND a calcium reactor. The calcium reactor effluent runs about 6.5-6.7, the kalkwasser unit effluent is in the 12-12.3 range. Problem is the caclium reactor doe snot get enough calcium into my tank to support it, so I added the kalkwasser unit. This helps, but does not have enough flow through it to get the levels as high as they shoul dbe. If I can increase the flow through the kalkwasser (and leve the calcium reacotr as is) by about 2-3 gallons more per day, it should be about perfect.

    So I need to work on getting more evaporation on a daily basis so the auto top-off trips the RO/DI unit which supplies the kalkwasser, and therefore would dose more through it and into the tank.

    My other choice is to dose straight kalk powder (calcium hydroxide) somehow to the sump, but would want an automated system not manual. I think the idea of creating more evaporation is the best route perhaps.

    Hope that was clear

  8. #8
    Reptoreef - Reefkeeper CR Member
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    gotcha... I believe there is an automated system that works in a similar way to a ca reactor in that it doses depending on the reading of the controller... I imagine it only doses for PH, though. Have ya tried opening up the calcium reactor and raising the bubble count??? I know ph is bound to drop, but then again, there are a couple of steps to help to avoid that... like adding a fizz cup with an airstone and the ca effluent or feeding the calc reactor effluent directly into your skimmer.
    There's nowhere else I'ld rather be... unless, of course, you're buying

  9. #9
    Registered User
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    fowlerville, mi
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    like adding a fizz cup with an airstone and the ca effluent or feeding the calc reactor effluent directly into your skimmer

    Yes, if I crank up the bubbles of CO2 or the effluent flow rate it drops my PH even more. However, the "fizz cup" you mentioned. I ahve heard rumors of this, but cannot find any real info of it. How do you set this up. Are you dumping the effluent into a cup with an airstone going, thus raising the PH on the effluent before it goes into the sump? Same idea of putting it into the skimmer?

    I have not tried this yet, How large a cup do I need, or how much residency time? Perhaps throwing it in the skimmer would be good, I have a rather lage one to work with.

    Also, just picked up some fiberglass screen at lunch. Will make some covers for the tank of this. I can then turn on the fans in the hood and should get some added evaporation this way due to the open tank, fans, and heat from the lights.

  10. #10
    davejnz - Reefkeeper CR Member
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    Default

    I think part of it is my tank is covered on top, I have thin acrylic sheets over the openings to prevent fish from jumping out. This prevents evaporation fom the heat of the lights also though. Perhaps drilling a bnch of small holes in these would help? Or is there another way to cover these like with a plastic screen or something?
    I think you might have figured it out,replace the acrylic with eggcrate and that should help solve your evaporation/aeration problem.

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