Bio-Filter in a Bucket

[Rook]

What skimmer

I'll have to look in the carbon source bio-pellets systems. Not sure I keep up on maintenance enough to try something like that; don't want to cause a system crash.

I'm not sure I understand your comment on live rock rubble. If live rock rubble can become a place to collect detritus, why is it not the same of the live rock in our tanks and sumps?

[rmalone]

You need a skimmer if your going to run bio-pellets or vodka. I can't imagine running a tank without a skimmer, but then again I have been so impressed with vodka and microbacter 7 that I wouldn't runa tank without those either.

[jimsflies]

What skimmer

No skimmer...no water changes...I see a possible trend. And likely a good place to start with dealing with the problem.

I'm not sure I understand your comment on live rock rubble. If live rock rubble can become a place to collect detritus, why is it not the same of the live rock in our tanks and sumps?

Live rock collects detritus. However, ideally the cleanup crew has access to it to help eat it before it decays. I also don't like live rock in the sump (especially rubble). Even with a cleanup crew, rubble is more difficult for the to get at it.

Live rock, especially rubble is going to primarily nitrify (i.e., break ammonia down into nitrate). The quantity of liverock we keep in our displays already does this job with 100% efficiency...as well as any other surface that bacteria can colonize. Large pieces of live rock, would have anaerobic areas deep inside of them and perform some denitrifying.

For algae to grow it needs nitrogen, phosphorus, and light. If you take any one of these out the equation algae can't grow. Most likely you have excess phosphates. Even at very low levels of phosphates, algae can still grow. The phosphate level I have read where algae is limited is below 0.05 ppm. It is likely that if you have an algae problem that a phosphate test would not show a significant concentration of phosphate because it is being consumed by the algae.

[Rook]

Yeap, no skimmer. I had a EuroReef years ago when I had my basement sump and I could never get it to produce much, so I got rid of it and have been skimmerless for 99% of my 10 or so years with a reef tank. The water changes is in part laziness since its now a PITA to lug 5 gallon buckets of water up from the basement, and in part some apathy after my tank had a bit of a crash when I moved. Now I'm trying to get it back up to how it used to be where I could feed rigorously and not experience much, if any, nutrient problems.

Thanks for the feedback. I understand now what your saying about rubble not being able to provide the final filtration of nitrates to nitrogen gas; perhaps a bucket full of regular liverock would be better, and would let me take some liverock out of the display tank and free up some swimming room.

I'm getting a BRS reactor for Carbon and GFO; I'm looking into trying a skimmer again (though I'm cheap and I need an external skimmer); and exploring other ideas that work and are fairly low maintenance and low risk solutions.

[jimsflies]

I think you will see benefit from running GFO (and carbon). Dialing in those GFO's can be a bit of a pain. Too little flow and it turns to a brick and too much flow and it creates fine particles. I have found mixing it with carbon is a good way to go cause at least if it turns into a brick it is not a solid piece that is a real pain to empty.

You might see if you can "borrow" a skimmer from somewhere and use MB7. For what it's worth, I ran a euro reef and was never very impressed either. Others told me that if it is mesh modded it would work better. But never got around to actually doing that before I tore down my 50 display. Now I too am skimmerless, but I have a "29" gallon (more like 20 I think after all the sand and rocks are in it) and just do a few gallon water change every couple weeks. I also add a small amount of MB7 even without a skimmer and I think it does help with nitrates and phosphates (it adds the bacteria directly to the tank). I had algae issues at the end of the old tank and that has disappeared on the rock I moved to the new tank.

[cg5071]

I was just saying... He really had no idea about pellets. They both let bacteria colonize the surface which I guess is where they stop being similar at all.

I lost interest for a month or 2 last winter. I just decided that I had to decide, do I want to keep this thing going or not. Doing a chore everyday or couple of days seems to make the workload more managable and less like work to me. Though some days I dont even want to add my 2 1/2g-3g top off but I dont want to kill things or burn an expensive pump either,lol.

[rmalone]

I think mb7 would be fine without a skimmer but don't go bio-pellet or vodka. Gfo is so nice it just makes phosphates a non-issue.

[Rook]

I'll start with carbon and GFO and up my water changes If I can find a skimmer for a good price, that is nice and easy to set and forget (other than emptying the cup) then I may go for one; I have no idea on which of the million skimmers are worth the costs though.

So, what would happen if I ran the biopellets without a skimmer? Some meltdown?

[Rook]

So, looking a bit into MB7, so I can dose this stuff without adding the carbon source, and thus safely use it without a skimmer?

[rmalone]

The problem is that bacteria does die, if it isn't removed then the nitrates and phosphates they consumed are just released into the water. You have the choice of very regular water changes or a skimmer with moderate water changes (water changes are necessary for more than nutrient export). I don't think there is any way around the situation.

Even deep sand beds are really just a way to store nutrients, sooner or later they will bite your butt if you don't take them off line and remove enough to ditch the nutrients, namely stored nitrates and phosphates. There is no free lunch. If nutrients go in the tank they have to come out or they are still there. Sure a little bit gets used up as energy which would be released as heat by the organism (macro/micro algae, bact, fish, coral...etc..etc.), via respiration but most of the nitrogen and phosphorous is just getting moved around by various organisms. Until it actually gets taken OUT of the tank nutrients are building up, it might be stored somewhere but it's still in the tank.