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CaC03 sand & water chemistry


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  1. #1
    Thomas Bartkus
    Guest

    Default CaC03 sand & water chemistry

    Okay - I'm confused.

    I *do* want to use calcium carbonate based sand because -
    It will help keep up the calcium & alkalinity & pH & trace elements as the
    sand slowly dissolves into the water. AND it won't scratch the glass like
    a silica sand.

    I *don't* want to use calcium carbonate based sand because -
    Calcium will preciptate out onto the CaCO3 sand and cause the
    alkalinity and pH to drop. I will have a heck of a time maintaing calcium
    & pH. Better to use a neutral silica or perhaps aragonite sand.

    What to believe?
    Thomas Bartkus

  2. #2
    Wayne Sallee
    Guest

    Default Re: CaC03 sand & water chemistry

    Calcium sand will not cause calcim to precipitate out.

    Calcium sand will not make it hard to maintain calcim and
    alkalinity levels.

    Calcium sand will scrach the glass

    You want clacium sand.


    Wayne Sallee
    Wayne's Pets
    Wayne@WaynesPets.com


    Thomas Bartkus wrote:
    Okay - I'm confused.

    I *do* want to use calcium carbonate based sand because -
    It will help keep up the calcium & alkalinity & pH & trace elements as the
    sand slowly dissolves into the water. AND it won't scratch the glass like
    a silica sand.

    I *don't* want to use calcium carbonate based sand because -
    Calcium will preciptate out onto the CaCO3 sand and cause the
    alkalinity and pH to drop. I will have a heck of a time maintaing calcium
    & pH. Better to use a neutral silica or perhaps aragonite sand.

    What to believe?
    Thomas Bartkus

  3. #3
    Marc Levenson
    Guest

    Default Re: CaC03 sand & water chemistry

    Yes, aragonite-based sand is the preferred kind. And this is what
    CaribSea bags up for hobbyists and is available at most LFS.

    Marc


    Wayne Sallee wrote:
    Calcium sand will not cause calcim to precipitate out.

    Calcium sand will not make it hard to maintain calcim and alkalinity
    levels.

    Calcium sand will scrach the glass

    You want clacium sand.


    Wayne Sallee
    Wayne's Pets
    Wayne@WaynesPets.com


    Thomas Bartkus wrote:

    Okay - I'm confused.

    I *do* want to use calcium carbonate based sand because -
    It will help keep up the calcium & alkalinity & pH & trace elements as
    the
    sand slowly dissolves into the water. AND it won't scratch the glass like
    a silica sand.

    I *don't* want to use calcium carbonate based sand because -
    Calcium will preciptate out onto the CaCO3 sand and cause the
    alkalinity and pH to drop. I will have a heck of a time maintaing calcium
    & pH. Better to use a neutral silica or perhaps aragonite sand.

    What to believe?
    Thomas Bartkus
    --
    Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
    Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
    Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

  4. #4
    kim gross
    Guest

    Default Re: CaC03 sand & water chemistry

    Thomas Bartkus wrote:
    Okay - I'm confused.

    I *do* want to use calcium carbonate based sand because -
    It will help keep up the calcium & alkalinity & pH & trace elements as the
    sand slowly dissolves into the water. AND it won't scratch the glass like
    a silica sand.

    I *don't* want to use calcium carbonate based sand because -
    Calcium will preciptate out onto the CaCO3 sand and cause the
    alkalinity and pH to drop. I will have a heck of a time maintaing calcium
    & pH. Better to use a neutral silica or perhaps aragonite sand.

    What to believe?
    Thomas Bartkus

    The answer depends. If you are trying to keep your water levels near
    normal sea water, part 1 is very true. It will not though dissolve very
    much to suppliment the CA and Alk.

    Now if you are trying to run very very high calcium and alk. The CA
    will precipatate out of solution. The place it precipatates depends on
    many things, one of which is, it forms on other aragonite easier than on
    the glass of your tank, but you will find it on your heaters, pumps,
    powerheads and any other item that is warmer than the bulk water also.

    So for a reef tank, you do want aragonite based sand, but it will not
    buffer your water much, but it will be a lot easier on the glass since
    it can not scratch glass like silica sand can.

    Kim

  5. #5
    Boomer
    Guest

    Default Re: CaC03 sand & water chemistry

    So lets unconfuse you


    Q1. It will not help keep up the pH, Ca and Alk. It does not dissolve unless the pH falls,
    for x number of reasons. It my add a tad to the pH, Ca and Alk but in a trivial,
    depending. In short time it will be coated bacteria and organics and all that will stop,
    unless the pH falls much lower. Do not worry about it.


    Q2. Ca and Mg will precip onto some of it initially, if it is aragonite, less if calcite
    and more so it dolomite. However, such Hi-Mg Calcites will just go right back into
    solution. Again in a short time it will get coated with bacteria and organics and this
    will also stop

    So don't worry about any of this

    Kim said this

    "Now if you are trying to run very very high calcium and alk. The CA
    will precipatate out of solution"

    This has nothing to do with the sand/say but does happen, it is called abiotic precip, aka
    hard water deposits. All tanks have some, like the heaters and at the water-air interface
    and sometimes lower on the glass. On fresh sand it can also happen more so, as Kim stated,
    as the Ca has a greater affinity to be attracted to a similar surface chemistry. However,
    again on the sand, organics and bacteria will stop this once coated.
    --
    Boomer

    Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
    http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php

    WCWing@nospamChartermi.Net
    Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
    Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS

    If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up


    "Thomas Bartkus" <thomasbartkus@comcast.net> wrote in message
    news:pan.2005.10.01.16.55.45.93346@comcast.net...
    : Okay - I'm confused.
    :
    : I *do* want to use calcium carbonate based sand because -
    : It will help keep up the calcium & alkalinity & pH & trace elements as the
    : sand slowly dissolves into the water. AND it won't scratch the glass like
    : a silica sand.
    :
    : I *don't* want to use calcium carbonate based sand because -
    : Calcium will preciptate out onto the CaCO3 sand and cause the
    : alkalinity and pH to drop. I will have a heck of a time maintaing calcium
    : & pH. Better to use a neutral silica or perhaps aragonite sand.
    :
    : What to believe?
    : Thomas Bartkus
    :

  6. #6
    Thomas Bartkus
    Guest

    Default Re: CaC03 sand & water chemistry

    "Wayne Sallee" <Wayne@WayneSallee.com> wrote in message
    news:JXz%e.6702$vw6.2166@newsread1.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
    Calcium sand will not cause calcim to precipitate out.

    Calcium sand will not make it hard to maintain calcim and
    alkalinity levels.

    Calcium sand will scrach the glass

    You want clacium sand.
    I think you meant to say that calcium sand won't scratch!

    If I interpret these posts correctly -

    There isn't much point to chasing after a particular "flavor" of sand for
    imaginary benefits to water chemistry. And coral, dolomite, aragonite sands
    are all acceptable alternatives to silica with the added benefit that they
    aren't as likely to leave scratches on the aquarium glass.

    I just want something non-toxic that won't scratch my fused silica (glass!)
    aquarium.
    Thomas Bartkus

  7. #7
    Thomas Bartkus
    Guest

    Default Re: CaC03 sand & water chemistry

    "Wayne Sallee" <Wayne@WayneSallee.com> wrote in message
    news:JXz%e.6702$vw6.2166@newsread1.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
    Calcium sand will not cause calcim to precipitate out.

    Calcium sand will not make it hard to maintain calcim and
    alkalinity levels.

    Calcium sand will scrach the glass

    You want clacium sand.
    I think you meant to say that calcium sand won't scratch!

    If I interpret these posts correctly -

    There isn't much point to chasing after a particular "flavor" of sand for
    imaginary benefits to water chemistry. And coral, dolomite, aragonite sands
    are all acceptable alternatives to silica with the added benefit that they
    aren't as likely to leave scratches on the aquarium glass.

    I just want something non-toxic that won't scratch my fused silica (glass!)
    aquarium.
    Thomas Bartkus
    > >

  8. #8
    Wayne Sallee
    Guest

    Default Re: CaC03 sand & water chemistry

    Yes calcium sand can scratch glass, but not as easily as
    silica cand. You don't want to get calcium sand under your
    algae magnet, or it can scrach your glass. Your live
    rock can also scrach the glass.

    Wayne Sallee
    Wayne's Pets
    Wayne@WaynesPets.com


    Thomas Bartkus wrote:
    "Wayne Sallee" <Wayne@WayneSallee.com> wrote in message
    news:JXz%e.6702$vw6.2166@newsread1.news.atl.earthl ink.net...

    Calcium sand will not cause calcim to precipitate out.

    Calcium sand will not make it hard to maintain calcim and
    alkalinity levels.

    Calcium sand will scrach the glass

    You want clacium sand.


    I think you meant to say that calcium sand won't scratch!

    If I interpret these posts correctly -

    There isn't much point to chasing after a particular "flavor" of sand for
    imaginary benefits to water chemistry. And coral, dolomite, aragonite sands
    are all acceptable alternatives to silica with the added benefit that they
    aren't as likely to leave scratches on the aquarium glass.

    I just want something non-toxic that won't scratch my fused silica (glass!)
    aquarium.
    Thomas Bartkus

  9. #9
    stoutman
    Guest

    Default Re: CaC03 sand & water chemistry

    "Boomer" <wcwing@nospamchartermi.net> wrote in message
    news:adR%e.3505$ES.2473@fe07.lga...
    So lets unconfuse you
    The CONFUSED informing the confused. Hmmmmm.


    Q1. It will not help keep up the pH, Ca and Alk. It does not dissolve
    unless the pH falls,
    You are contradicting yourself in the same sentence and you don't even know
    it. If the pH falls and CaCO3 dissolves than [Ca++] increases, along with
    [CO3--] and [HCO3-]. CaCO3 contributes to your overall buffering capacity.

    When the pH drops your substrate i.e. aragonite (a form of CaCO3) breaks
    down (dissolves) into Ca++ and CO3-- and adds to your buffering capacity (pH
    stabilization).

    for x number of reasons. It my add a tad to the pH, Ca and Alk but in a
    trivial,
    depending.
    What?? You just said in the previous sentance that it WILL NOT help keep
    up the pH.

    In short time it will be coated bacteria and organics and all that will
    stop,
    unless the pH falls much lower. Do not worry about it.


    Q2. Ca and Mg will precip onto some of it initially, if it is aragonite,
    less if calcite
    and more so it dolomite. However, such Hi-Mg Calcites will just go right
    back into
    solution. Again in a short time it will get coated with bacteria and
    organics and this
    will also stop

    So don't worry about any of this

    Kim said this

    "Now if you are trying to run very very high calcium and alk. The CA
    will precipatate out of solution"

    This has nothing to do with the sand/say but does happen, it is called
    abiotic precip, aka
    hard water deposits. All tanks have some, like the heaters and at the
    water-air interface
    and sometimes lower on the glass. On fresh sand it can also happen more
    so, as Kim stated,
    as the Ca has a greater affinity to be attracted to a similar surface
    chemistry. However,
    again on the sand, organics and bacteria will stop this once coated.
    --
    Boomer

    Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
    http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php

    WCWing@nospamChartermi.Net
    Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
    Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS

    If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up


    "Thomas Bartkus" <thomasbartkus@comcast.net> wrote in message
    news:pan.2005.10.01.16.55.45.93346@comcast.net...
    : Okay - I'm confused.
    :
    : I *do* want to use calcium carbonate based sand because -
    : It will help keep up the calcium & alkalinity & pH & trace elements as
    the
    : sand slowly dissolves into the water. AND it won't scratch the glass
    like
    : a silica sand.
    :
    : I *don't* want to use calcium carbonate based sand because -
    : Calcium will preciptate out onto the CaCO3 sand and cause the
    : alkalinity and pH to drop. I will have a heck of a time maintaing
    calcium
    : & pH. Better to use a neutral silica or perhaps aragonite sand.
    :
    : What to believe?
    : Thomas Bartkus
    :

  10. #10
    unclenorm
    Guest

    Default Re: CaC03 sand & water chemistry

    Hi Thomas,
    A fact I think you should know, irrespective what other
    people may tell you, Calcium Carbonate sand, Southdown Tropical Play
    sand, Aragonite sand, and Oolite are all the same they are all Calcium
    Carbonate sands, they will not cause precipitation or PH shifts etc.
    The rate they will dissolve naturally is very very small, they need a
    calcium reactor running a CO2 system to dissolve.
    Finally they are the preferred substrate for any marine tank.
    regards,
    unclenorm.

    Thomas Bartkus wrote:
    Okay - I'm confused.

    I *do* want to use calcium carbonate based sand because -
    It will help keep up the calcium & alkalinity & pH & trace elements as the
    sand slowly dissolves into the water. AND it won't scratch the glass like
    a silica sand.

    I *don't* want to use calcium carbonate based sand because -
    Calcium will preciptate out onto the CaCO3 sand and cause the
    alkalinity and pH to drop. I will have a heck of a time maintaing calcium
    & pH. Better to use a neutral silica or perhaps aragonite sand.

    What to believe?
    Thomas Bartkus

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