CaC03 sand & water chemistry

Okay - I'm confused.

I *do* want to use calcium carbonate based sand because -
It will help keep up the calcium & alkalinity & pH & trace elements as the
sand slowly dissolves into the water. AND it won't scratch the glass like
a silica sand.

I *don't* want to use calcium carbonate based sand because -
Calcium will preciptate out onto the CaCO3 sand and cause the
alkalinity and pH to drop. I will have a heck of a time maintaing calcium
& pH. Better to use a neutral silica or perhaps aragonite sand.

What to believe?
Thomas Bartkus

Calcium sand will not cause calcim to precipitate out.

Calcium sand will not make it hard to maintain calcim and
alkalinity levels.

Calcium sand will scrach the glass

You want clacium sand.


Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets
Wayne@WaynesPets.com


Thomas Bartkus wrote:

Okay - I'm confused.

I *do* want to use calcium carbonate based sand because -
It will help keep up the calcium & alkalinity & pH & trace elements as the
sand slowly dissolves into the water. AND it won't scratch the glass like
a silica sand.

I *don't* want to use calcium carbonate based sand because -
Calcium will preciptate out onto the CaCO3 sand and cause the
alkalinity and pH to drop. I will have a heck of a time maintaing calcium
& pH. Better to use a neutral silica or perhaps aragonite sand.

What to believe?
Thomas Bartkus

Yes, aragonite-based sand is the preferred kind. And this is what
CaribSea bags up for hobbyists and is available at most LFS.

Marc


Wayne Sallee wrote:

Calcium sand will not cause calcim to precipitate out.

Calcium sand will not make it hard to maintain calcim and alkalinity
levels.

Calcium sand will scrach the glass

You want clacium sand.


Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets
Wayne@WaynesPets.com


Thomas Bartkus wrote:

Okay - I'm confused.

I *do* want to use calcium carbonate based sand because -
It will help keep up the calcium & alkalinity & pH & trace elements as
the
sand slowly dissolves into the water. AND it won't scratch the glass like
a silica sand.

I *don't* want to use calcium carbonate based sand because -
Calcium will preciptate out onto the CaCO3 sand and cause the
alkalinity and pH to drop. I will have a heck of a time maintaing calcium
& pH. Better to use a neutral silica or perhaps aragonite sand.

What to believe?
Thomas Bartkus

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

Thomas Bartkus wrote:

Okay - I'm confused.

I *do* want to use calcium carbonate based sand because -
It will help keep up the calcium & alkalinity & pH & trace elements as the
sand slowly dissolves into the water. AND it won't scratch the glass like
a silica sand.

I *don't* want to use calcium carbonate based sand because -
Calcium will preciptate out onto the CaCO3 sand and cause the
alkalinity and pH to drop. I will have a heck of a time maintaing calcium
& pH. Better to use a neutral silica or perhaps aragonite sand.

What to believe?
Thomas Bartkus

The answer depends. If you are trying to keep your water levels near

normal sea water, part 1 is very true. It will not though dissolve very
much to suppliment the CA and Alk.

Now if you are trying to run very very high calcium and alk. The CA
will precipatate out of solution. The place it precipatates depends on
many things, one of which is, it forms on other aragonite easier than on
the glass of your tank, but you will find it on your heaters, pumps,
powerheads and any other item that is warmer than the bulk water also.

So for a reef tank, you do want aragonite based sand, but it will not
buffer your water much, but it will be a lot easier on the glass since
it can not scratch glass like silica sand can.

Kim

So lets unconfuse you


Q1. It will not help keep up the pH, Ca and Alk. It does not dissolve unless the pH falls,
for x number of reasons. It my add a tad to the pH, Ca and Alk but in a trivial,
depending. In short time it will be coated bacteria and organics and all that will stop,
unless the pH falls much lower. Do not worry about it.


Q2. Ca and Mg will precip onto some of it initially, if it is aragonite, less if calcite
and more so it dolomite. However, such Hi-Mg Calcites will just go right back into
solution. Again in a short time it will get coated with bacteria and organics and this
will also stop

So don't worry about any of this

Kim said this

"Now if you are trying to run very very high calcium and alk. The CA
will precipatate out of solution"

This has nothing to do with the sand/say but does happen, it is called abiotic precip, aka
hard water deposits. All tanks have some, like the heaters and at the water-air interface
and sometimes lower on the glass. On fresh sand it can also happen more so, as Kim stated,
as the Ca has a greater affinity to be attracted to a similar surface chemistry. However,
again on the sand, organics and bacteria will stop this once coated.
--
Boomer

Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php

WCWing@nospamChartermi.Net
Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS

If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up


"Thomas Bartkus" <thomasbartkus@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.10.01.16.55.45.93346@comcast.net...
: Okay - I'm confused.
:
: I *do* want to use calcium carbonate based sand because -
: It will help keep up the calcium & alkalinity & pH & trace elements as the
: sand slowly dissolves into the water. AND it won't scratch the glass like
: a silica sand.
:
: I *don't* want to use calcium carbonate based sand because -
: Calcium will preciptate out onto the CaCO3 sand and cause the
: alkalinity and pH to drop. I will have a heck of a time maintaing calcium
: & pH. Better to use a neutral silica or perhaps aragonite sand.
:
: What to believe?
: Thomas Bartkus
:

"Wayne Sallee" <Wayne@WayneSallee.com> wrote in message
news:JXz%e.6702$vw6.2166@newsread1.news.atl.earthl ink.net...

Calcium sand will not cause calcim to precipitate out.

Calcium sand will not make it hard to maintain calcim and
alkalinity levels.

Calcium sand will scrach the glass

You want clacium sand.

I think you meant to say that calcium sand won't scratch!

If I interpret these posts correctly -

There isn't much point to chasing after a particular "flavor" of sand for
imaginary benefits to water chemistry. And coral, dolomite, aragonite sands
are all acceptable alternatives to silica with the added benefit that they
aren't as likely to leave scratches on the aquarium glass.

I just want something non-toxic that won't scratch my fused silica (glass!)
aquarium.
Thomas Bartkus

"Wayne Sallee" <Wayne@WayneSallee.com> wrote in message
news:JXz%e.6702$vw6.2166@newsread1.news.atl.earthl ink.net...

Calcium sand will not cause calcim to precipitate out.

Calcium sand will not make it hard to maintain calcim and
alkalinity levels.

Calcium sand will scrach the glass

You want clacium sand.

I think you meant to say that calcium sand won't scratch!

If I interpret these posts correctly -

There isn't much point to chasing after a particular "flavor" of sand for
imaginary benefits to water chemistry. And coral, dolomite, aragonite sands
are all acceptable alternatives to silica with the added benefit that they
aren't as likely to leave scratches on the aquarium glass.

I just want something non-toxic that won't scratch my fused silica (glass!)
aquarium.
Thomas Bartkus
> >

Yes calcium sand can scratch glass, but not as easily as
silica cand. You don't want to get calcium sand under your
algae magnet, or it can scrach your glass. Your live
rock can also scrach the glass.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets
Wayne@WaynesPets.com


Thomas Bartkus wrote:

"Wayne Sallee" <Wayne@WayneSallee.com> wrote in message
news:JXz%e.6702$vw6.2166@newsread1.news.atl.earthl ink.net...

Calcium sand will not cause calcim to precipitate out.

Calcium sand will not make it hard to maintain calcim and
alkalinity levels.

Calcium sand will scrach the glass

You want clacium sand.


I think you meant to say that calcium sand won't scratch!

If I interpret these posts correctly -

There isn't much point to chasing after a particular "flavor" of sand for
imaginary benefits to water chemistry. And coral, dolomite, aragonite sands
are all acceptable alternatives to silica with the added benefit that they
aren't as likely to leave scratches on the aquarium glass.

I just want something non-toxic that won't scratch my fused silica (glass!)
aquarium.
Thomas Bartkus

"Boomer" <wcwing@nospamchartermi.net> wrote in message
news:adR%e.3505$ES.2473@fe07.lga...

So lets unconfuse you

The CONFUSED informing the confused. Hmmmmm.

Q1. It will not help keep up the pH, Ca and Alk. It does not dissolve
unless the pH falls,

You are contradicting yourself in the same sentence and you don't even know
it. If the pH falls and CaCO3 dissolves than [Ca++] increases, along with
[CO3--] and [HCO3-]. CaCO3 contributes to your overall buffering capacity.

When the pH drops your substrate i.e. aragonite (a form of CaCO3) breaks
down (dissolves) into Ca++ and CO3-- and adds to your buffering capacity (pH
stabilization).

for x number of reasons. It my add a tad to the pH, Ca and Alk but in a
trivial,
depending.

What?? You just said in the previous sentance that it WILL NOT help keep
up the pH.

In short time it will be coated bacteria and organics and all that will
stop,
unless the pH falls much lower. Do not worry about it.


Q2. Ca and Mg will precip onto some of it initially, if it is aragonite,
less if calcite
and more so it dolomite. However, such Hi-Mg Calcites will just go right
back into
solution. Again in a short time it will get coated with bacteria and
organics and this
will also stop

So don't worry about any of this

Kim said this

"Now if you are trying to run very very high calcium and alk. The CA
will precipatate out of solution"

This has nothing to do with the sand/say but does happen, it is called
abiotic precip, aka
hard water deposits. All tanks have some, like the heaters and at the
water-air interface
and sometimes lower on the glass. On fresh sand it can also happen more
so, as Kim stated,
as the Ca has a greater affinity to be attracted to a similar surface
chemistry. However,
again on the sand, organics and bacteria will stop this once coated.
--
Boomer

Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php

WCWing@nospamChartermi.Net
Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS

If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up


"Thomas Bartkus" <thomasbartkus@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.10.01.16.55.45.93346@comcast.net...
: Okay - I'm confused.
:
: I *do* want to use calcium carbonate based sand because -
: It will help keep up the calcium & alkalinity & pH & trace elements as
the
: sand slowly dissolves into the water. AND it won't scratch the glass
like
: a silica sand.
:
: I *don't* want to use calcium carbonate based sand because -
: Calcium will preciptate out onto the CaCO3 sand and cause the
: alkalinity and pH to drop. I will have a heck of a time maintaing
calcium
: & pH. Better to use a neutral silica or perhaps aragonite sand.
:
: What to believe?
: Thomas Bartkus
:

Hi Thomas,
A fact I think you should know, irrespective what other
people may tell you, Calcium Carbonate sand, Southdown Tropical Play
sand, Aragonite sand, and Oolite are all the same they are all Calcium
Carbonate sands, they will not cause precipitation or PH shifts etc.
The rate they will dissolve naturally is very very small, they need a
calcium reactor running a CO2 system to dissolve.
Finally they are the preferred substrate for any marine tank.
regards,
unclenorm.

Thomas Bartkus wrote:

Okay - I'm confused.

I *do* want to use calcium carbonate based sand because -
It will help keep up the calcium & alkalinity & pH & trace elements as the
sand slowly dissolves into the water. AND it won't scratch the glass like
a silica sand.

I *don't* want to use calcium carbonate based sand because -
Calcium will preciptate out onto the CaCO3 sand and cause the
alkalinity and pH to drop. I will have a heck of a time maintaing calcium
& pH. Better to use a neutral silica or perhaps aragonite sand.

What to believe?
Thomas Bartkus