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PO4 Removal Suggestions please.


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  1. #1
    MizTanks - Reefkeeper
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    Oct 2009
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    U.P. of Michigan.
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    8,444
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    Jamie
    Awards Photo of the Month - October 2012 Photo of the Month Post and Reply Award - Winner of the first PAR Contest. Monthly Giveaway Winner

    Default PO4 Removal Suggestions please.

    I tested for PO4 using a RedSea Kit and am getting a reading of 1.0 Without the use of a reactor and very limited places to place any type of media, can someone suggest another option for reducing the PO4?
    There's nothing like being a Reefer! www.upmmas.com

  2. #2
    binford4000 - Reefkeeper
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    farmington hills mi
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    Old man
    Awards Tank of the Month - May 2012 Tank of the Month

    Default

    Phos guard works great ! Made by sea chem. Zeovit also has good products to reduce Po4

    Phos guard link

    PhosGuard.

    ZEO vit link

    Korallen-Zucht ZEOstart 3 - Bulk Reef Supply

  3. #3
    MizTanks - Reefkeeper
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    U.P. of Michigan.
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    Jamie
    Awards Photo of the Month - October 2012 Photo of the Month Post and Reply Award - Winner of the first PAR Contest. Monthly Giveaway Winner

    Default PO4 Removal Suggestions please.

    Thanks Chuck I'll check em out.


    Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk
    There's nothing like being a Reefer! www.upmmas.com

  4. #4
    Tom@HaslettMI - Reefkeeper
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    Oct 2009
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    East Lansing, MI
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    Tom
    Awards Yugo Award - For helping with the CR Booth at MCES Monthly Giveaway Winner Monthly Giveaway Winner Photo of the Month Tank of the Month

    Default

    I use PhosGuard as well. It worked well for me just sitting in a mesh bag in the sump (near the outflow from the skimmer).

  5. #5
    AZDesertRat - Reefkeeper
    Subject Matter Expert
    Water Treatment

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    May 2010
    Location
    Phoenix AZ
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    Default

    I have never been a fan of aluminum based products, they leach contaminants once exhausted unlike ferric oxide products which do not. On the flip side the alumimum products work faster but make sure you replace it often.

    I prefer a slower change so the GFO products are my choice, in small amounts 24/7/365 and either in a reactor or a small bag in a medium flow area in smaller systems.

  6. #6
    binford4000 - Reefkeeper
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    Feb 2011
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    Awards Tank of the Month - May 2012 Tank of the Month

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AZDesertRat View Post
    I have never been a fan of aluminum based products, they leach contaminants once exhausted unlike ferric oxide products which do not. On the flip side the alumimum products work faster but make sure you replace it often.

    I prefer a slower change so the GFO products are my choice, in small amounts 24/7/365 and either in a reactor or a small bag in a medium flow area in smaller systems.
    Seven months ago I would have agreed with this opinion. I now agree some aluminum based products will leach but have not seen this from sachems Phosguard product. Unlike GFO it also is able to reduce Po4 immediately but will maintain the drop for much longer then GFO. Unlike GFO the small balls do not brake down and become useless in a very short time. It also changes color to let you know when it needs to be changed and cost 1/3 the price,does not require a reactor unlike GFO that needs to be in a fluidized state to perform correctly,but performs excelant in a reactor also. I honestly have not found a negative aspect of this product. I have also had several friends with large systems try this product and they all have had the same positive result. When I ran GFO I would have to change it close to every two weeks. At 3 to 4 cups a month running GFO that gets expensive fast. A five gallon bucket of GFO will run over $700.00'five gallons of Phosguard is only $250.00 and it out performs it. Makes sense to me.

    Don't believe Good GFO cost that much? Here's a link to what I use to order every year !

    BRS Bulk GFO Granular Ferric Oxide - High Capacity - Bulk Reef Supply

    I am such a fan of this product that I actually gave it to the mentioned reefers for free to try it to see if they got the same results. All three have bought their last cans of GFO months ago!

  7. #7
    AZDesertRat - Reefkeeper
    Subject Matter Expert
    Water Treatment

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    May 2010
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    Phoenix AZ
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    There have been many studies done over the years showing not only the leaching of phosphate once the media is exhausted but also the release of aluminum. Here is one such study:
    Chemistry And The Aquarium: Aluminum In The Reef Aquarium ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog

    I know Seachem did a paper on this but it was performed in house and not by a third party so is of limited value in my mind since they have a stake in the outcome.

    Having worked in the municipal water treatment industry for going on 40 years now I know ferric oxide is the preferred media for arsenic removal and has been proven for decades. GFO and GFH once exhausted just don't adsorb anymore but they do not release and is why they are EPA and ANSI/NSF approved for human drinking water It is where we as aquarists have taken both of these medias from originally. There are also newer medias such as coated titanium dioxide that stands up better than GFO. I will continue to use a combination of GFO and a refugium with macroalgaes until something better comes along. Another perk of working in the industry is I have sources for less expensive GFO which helps out too.

    Here are more studies and papers and none shows any release of substances once GFO is exhausted. A couple point out the advantage of a slower reaction than aluminum based medias and its effects on corals.

    Iron Oxide Hydroxide (GFO) Phosphate Binders by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

    Phosphate and the Reef Aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

    Aquarium Chemistry: Effects of GFO (Granular Ferric Oxide) on 'Trace' Metals Concentrations in Artificial Seawater ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog


    I guess it boils down to it being a personal choice as there are supporters of both medias as well as more recent articles on Lanthanum Chloride but I don't think I'm ready to go there yet.

  8. #8
    MizTanks - Reefkeeper
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    Oct 2009
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    Jamie
    Awards Photo of the Month - October 2012 Photo of the Month Post and Reply Award - Winner of the first PAR Contest. Monthly Giveaway Winner

    Default PO4 Removal Suggestions please.

    On another note I've read that Kalkwasser was known for it's ability to lower PO4. Is this correct?


    Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk
    There's nothing like being a Reefer! www.upmmas.com

  9. #9
    binford4000 - Reefkeeper
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MizTanks View Post
    On another note I've read that Kalkwasser was known for it's ability to lower PO4. Is this correct?


    Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk
    It's common to see a slight drop in Po4 once you have it dialed in and running awhile. It won't drop enough to solve the high readings you are getting. Sorry
    Likes MizTanks liked this post

  10. #10
    AZDesertRat - Reefkeeper
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    Water Treatment

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    Default

    Kalk and lowered phosphates has been kicked around for years but its not really well documented. Randy discusses it at the bottom of this article here:
    What Your Grandmother Never Told You About Lime by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

    Even if it does precipitate out it has not left the tank other than a small amount that gets skimmed out so the bulk of it is still there in one form or another.
    Likes MizTanks liked this post

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