lineage and names?

[korndiddy20]

I had a question for you all. Lets say for example you went to the lfs and found a small piece of what looks to be "my miami" or tyree bazooka joe or whatever. It looks exactly the same, there is no difference. What do you call it? Since it didnt come from the person who named it can we sell it as such? If someone says do you have lineage is the response no? With allot of these corals who are we lineageing (if thats a word) to? Say you went to a whole saler and and saw the owner of a website and you both were eyeing a coral and decided to chop it in half. If he goes and names it "super coral" can you sell yours as the same thing? if someone asks for lineage what is your response?

Im just curious as how this whole lineage and naming goes. I can see the argument on both sides but was just curious as to what the majority thought. Would you get made if you named a piece you found "super coral" and someone in cali sold there frag as the same thing and you know it didnt come from you?

[EMUreef]

Originally Posted by korndiddy20

I had a question for you all. Lets say for example you went to the lfs and found a small piece of what looks to be "my miami" or tyree bazooka joe or whatever. It looks exactly the same, there is no difference. What do you call it? Since it didnt come from the person who named it can we sell it as such? If someone says do you have lineage is the response no? With allot of these corals who are we lineageing (if thats a word) to? Say you went to a whole saler and and saw the owner of a website and you both were eyeing a coral and decided to chop it in half. If he goes and names it "super coral" can you sell yours as the same thing? if someone asks for lineage what is your response?

Im just curious as how this whole lineage and naming goes. I can see the argument on both sides but was just curious as to what the majority thought. Would you get made if you named a piece you found "super coral" and someone in cali sold there frag as the same thing and you know it didnt come from you?

In response to your last part are they both the same looking coral

[Sir Patrick]

"Lets say for example you went to the lfs and found a small piece of what looks to be "my miami" or tyree bazooka joe or whatever. It looks exactly the same, there is no difference. What do you call it? Since it didnt come from the person who named it can we sell it as such? If someone says do you have lineage is the response no?" -

I have to say, corals with names like Tyree, ORA, Garf, or any names with a company/stores name in it should have lineage to sell it by that name. The more common names, like whammin watermellon, miami, Bonsai, kedds redds, bambam, sunset, ect are just fine to use names as long as the peice looks identical.

If you have a peice that looks identical to a named item- that is normally lineaged, and it looks absolutly identical, like a Garf Bonsai- you can always drop the garf part and call it bonsai, or an ORA sunset Digi just a sunset digi, but you would then be putting your rep at risk. Many will see it as OK while others will not. I see it as OK, as long as the fact that there is no lineage is in plain sight, or common knowledge. I would definitly make sure buyers understood there is no proof to lineage.

"Say you went to a whole saler and and saw the owner of a website and you both were eyeing a coral and decided to chop it in half. If he goes and names it "super coral" can you sell yours as the same thing?"

Yes you could. And that would be proof of lineage. Now, if the store owner wasnt one of the big companies that commonly lineage or name their corals- dont be surprised when your coral is also circulating around different areas of the world with many other different names, as very commonly seen in the zoanthid collecting world.

"If someone asks for lineage what is your response?"-

Tell them the original namer and you split the coral if thats what happened, and if you have no lineage, tell the truth, and reply- I have no proof of lineage.

"Would you get mad if you named a piece you found "super coral" and someone in cali sold there frag as the same thing and you know it didnt come from you?"-

No, not at all......Its bound to happen. But if I was one of the bigger groups nameing corals and stamping them with lineage, and found this happening w/ a coral that clearly wasnt the same- I would definitly be bent out of shape. Especially if my, or my companies name was involved.

Lineage is a touchy subject to many, but not all. As a buisness, it gets even more touchy. Its not terrible for the small time hobbiest, but even then, can cause a stir.

I have a red planet mini colony. From what I would guess, it is an ORA red planet....but I never bothered to ask for sure from the person I got it from. Just to be on the safe side, if I were to frag it and sell some, I would sell it as red planet- and not indicate that its ORA. Even though it looks exactly like an ORA, and there is no reason to think otherwise, I never bothered to make sure, and I find it just as well to be on the safe side- just in case.

[Chris]

Very well put Sir Patrick, I agree 100% on it all..... crazy huh? lol

just a little add on..... the ocean is a vast area with many of the same/similar things throughout many areas, also there are many divers that hit alot of the "good" hot spots so its bound to happen that even if you didnt split the piece with the LFS at the wholesalers that you or another LFS could find the same/extremely similar piece from different wholesalers/lfs all over the nation/world... IMO if it didnt come from the original namer (or proof of lineage going back to the ON) regardless of you being there or not and its identical then its still fine to call it the name with exception of the BIG names (tyree, jason fox, ora.....) but then just drop that places name as Chris said above

[MyNemesis]

Sir Patrick, I agree with your conclusions. Good questions from the OP. I bought a favia at the GRMAS swap that looks exactly like a Babies Breath favia. Do I know it is? No. So I call it a Babies Bottom favia and when I frag it a year from now, that's what I will call it. Your Red Planet colony is ORA; I got my starter frag the day after it was released by ORA, shipped directly to Preuss in Lansing.

[korndiddy20]

Originally Posted by EMUreef

In response to your last part are they both the same looking coral

yes

[korndiddy20]

so does this mean that if you are going to name a coral you MUST put your name in front of it? because if you just called your monti, chili pepper, couldnt anyone call theres the same thing?

[EMUreef]

i know this wasn't really part of the question but i suppose i can't resist commenting anyway.

IMO, i think lineage is just silly, and i dont buy a coral because it came from one person to the next. If i see a posting where the person is talking about lineage i move onto the next just because i know the price is going to be higher than what it should be.

heck i know the lineage of most corals. THE OCEAN. lol. Why should a coral be special because some guy picked it out of the ocean?

[Sir Patrick]

Mynemisis- Thx! Looks like I have lineage on this one! I now feel safe calling it ORA if I feel the want to do so.

[Sir Patrick]

Alot of names do play a role in things. Some of the places that name, or place lineage on things, are aquaculturing and the name lets you know you are buying an aquacultured coral- and not somthing wild caught, or somthing gotten and chopped up quick for sale.

Many of these said corals have been growing in tank situations, and are aclimated to tank life, and many times hold color or are proven to be much hardier than most corals, and have been groomed per say for the hobby.

I guess aquacultering is where the lineage of corals impotance matter most. Many other places will name also, but in the end, if they are just shopping and chopping, in the end its just another name.....